Apple swindles old man

[scaredpoet]

With the kind of luck I have, the guy would walk up with the phone right when I tell him, or he would say "That guy there told me."

So? Say it to his face. "That guy there" is in the wrong. If he has a problem with it, he should get his manager over to hear what that guy had to say in terms of what storage was required to store 10 phone numbers.

I did not want to be in the middle of it,

But of course you can be an Internet Tough Guy and make a stink of it on here, instead. Good job!

----------

Salespeople represent the company as a whole to the customer so in my opinion, yes it is Apple.

And if the person witnessing the wrongdoing shrugged and walked away, then it's on him, too.

Bad people get hired at every company. What makes a company good or not is if they act on those bad hires when informed about them. But if you keep your mouth shut, the company can't act.

 

[Six8]

I was at an Apple Store today picking up a Mac that needed fixing. While I was waiting for them to bring it out, I overheard a conversation between an Apple "Genius" and an elderly man who was buying an iPhone for the first time. He said his old phone that he had for 10 years broke, and he wanted to buy an iPhone to do FaceTime with his grandkids. The guy was unsure about most of the features and generally unfamiliar with the iPhone. The genius asked him if he takes any pictures, watches movies, or plays games and he said no. The genius then asked him how many people he plans on calling on it. I wondered why this made a difference so I listened closely while standing nearby to hear the explanation. The old man said about 10 people, and the genius told him that to fit 10 phone numbers he would need to buy the 64 GB. He was hesitant but said ok and the genius walked off smiling. When he came out with the iPhone he whispered to his buddy who laughed, I'm assuming he told him what he did although I couldn't hear. I felt like explaining to the man how he just got swindled while the guy was in the back but I did not want to implicated in the whole thing, but I regret not saying anything now. I am going to question the next Apple purchase I make. This is appalling.

What Mac and what was wrong with it?

 

[Myiphone7]

Caveat emptor.

If you shop unarmed or have no knowledge of what you're shopping for -- it's on you.

I'm not condoning the behavior, but . . .

So what your saying is that Apple has NO responsibility for cheating its customers? Shameful.

 

[vastoholic]

So what your saying is that Apple has NO responsibility for cheating its customers? Shameful.

That's not what he's saying. At least not to me.

But in reality, Apple themselves, do not have the responsibility. The individual store managers and HR reps have that responsibility. Apple, Inc. cannot control how each retail store employee acts. It has to be on the individual stores to police their own employees.

If you go to buy something with no knowledge, you run the risk of being taken advantage of. It's just a sad fact of sales. But again, the OP could have helped this situation but chose not too and instead decided to come here and complain about what he saw. Now this particular employee will have another opportunity to do the same thing to another customer.

 

[Jimmy Guphanti]

What Mac and what was wrong with it?

I have an iMac that has had graphics issues, (I made a thread about it a few months back) They told me it was software so I restored to 10.8.0. That fixed it for several months until one day Bootcamp started crashing during games, so I decided to take it in again. This time the test confirmed GPU has a problem. They replaced it.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1465782/

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1495138/

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4535568

 

[skysailing]

I believe you. Poor guy tbh.

 

[mrsir2009]

I was at an Apple Store today picking up a Mac that needed fixing. While I was waiting for them to bring it out, I overheard a conversation between an Apple "Genius" and an elderly man who was buying an iPhone for the first time. He said his old phone that he had for 10 years broke, and he wanted to buy an iPhone to do FaceTime with his grandkids. The guy was unsure about most of the features and generally unfamiliar with the iPhone. The genius asked him if he takes any pictures, watches movies, or plays games and he said no. The genius then asked him how many people he plans on calling on it. I wondered why this made a difference so I listened closely while standing nearby to hear the explanation. The old man said about 10 people, and the genius told him that to fit 10 phone numbers he would need to buy the 64 GB. He was hesitant but said ok and the genius walked off smiling. When he came out with the iPhone he whispered to his buddy who laughed, I'm assuming he told him what he did although I couldn't hear. I felt like explaining to the man how he just got swindled while the guy was in the back but I did not want to implicated in the whole thing, but I regret not saying anything now. I am going to question the next Apple purchase I make. This is appalling.

That’s disgusting.

 

[arc123]

Caveat emptor.

If you shop unarmed or have no knowledge of what you're shopping for -- it's on you.

I'm not condoning the behavior, but . . .

You really are implicitly condoning this sort of behavior by advancing a doctrine for which such behavior is explicitly condoned. However, caveat emptor is not a maxim anyone would really want to universalize, because what it means in real terms is huge transactional costs (time, effort, possibly money) added to every economic transaction in which the parties are adversarial. People routinely malign the abundant costs of litigation, and the adversarial legal process generally, but that is effectively what "caveat emptor" enshrines - a fundamentally adversarial process in which each party is nearly exclusively responsible for securing their interests.

The reality of consumer economics is that if "caveat emptor" were universalized, you'd have consumers mired in extensive, long-term research projects prior to buying any given product, which would bring sales to a crawl. People would have to spend a bunch of time developing expertise solely for the purpose of managing the transaction, wade through what would probably be a cottage industry of misinformation purpose-built for such a system, and possibly hire third-parties to oversee particularly challenging cases. Secondly, a system built upon distrust and adversity generally just breeds contempt, discord, and displeasure for all parties involved.

Sound hyperbolic? Of course it does, because caveat emptor is itself an extreme, unrealistic, and unreasonable doctrine. What people really probably have in mind is something like "don't be negligent," but that standard is amorphous and subject to a lot of rather loose thinking about obligations and virtuous exemplars. Nonetheless, some solution is of course needed. I think the one that makes sense is more or less the one that many people gesture towards, which is that the company has an affirmative duty to produce the sort of information consumers typically are looking for in a product, without necessarily having to bulletpoint and highlight the deficiencies to the point that it seems like they are doing the job of discrediting themselves on behalf of others.

Side note - I had no idea Apple employees received commission. I was under the impression that they didn't? [edit - as someone noted at the bottom, it's unclear this actually happened]

 

[DesertEagle]

I saw something similar once with an Apple Premium Reseller, but then I told the customer myself what kind of MacBook she really needed. It was an old lady, and she ended up buying nothing from them. The employee may have hated me for that, but I was sure that I wouldn't buy anything in that store ever again.

 

[old-wiz]

Do they get commission for each phone plan they sell?

Apple store employees do not get a commission on phones.

 

[SpyderBite]

Apple store employees do not get a commission on phones.

This ^^

Thus I don't understand what motivation the Genius would have for recommending more phone than the customer needed.

More so, I am not aware of any stores where the Geniuses have time between 15 min appts to sell a contracted iPhone. That's what the sales staff is for.

 

[ntrigue]

I would not have hesitated to interrupt that ridiculousness. Beyond that he should have been sold an iPod Touch, iPad mini or iPhone 4.

 

[abz1981]

OP MAY BE A TROLL!! CHECK THIS WASTELANDED THREAD https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1519309/

I call bull ***** on this story too. OP does appear to be a troll.

 

[Troneas]

This ^^

Thus I don't understand what motivation the Genius would have for recommending more phone than the customer needed.

More so, I am not aware of any stores where the Geniuses have time between 15 min appts to sell a contracted iPhone. That's what the sales staff is for.

he was probably just being a jerk.

happens with unmotivated, bitter and resentful people.

 

[meistervu]

Yes, the title of the post was as wrong as the action of the sales person

Apple? No I don't see Apple swindling anyone.

Just an asshat employee taking advantage of an uninformed customer.

Happens everyday.

If the story is true, it's the sales person who was bad. It has nothing to do with Apple. Sure, some people may say that Apple should train their employee better. But sales people are human: some are bad. There is no reasonable measure to prevent a sales person with a bad intention to behave that way.

 

[gnasher729]

The old man said about 10 people, and the genius told him that to fit 10 phone numbers he would need to buy the 64 GB.

To be honest...

There are two explanations for this post. One explanation is that an employee at an Apple Store was behaving in a despicable way ripping off an old man, that another store employee thought it was funny, even though in reality getting caught doing this would get him into deep trouble with his manager, and that someone overhearing it all didn't even think about doing anything about it.

The other explanation is that the story is completely made up.

We have exactly the same amount of evidence for each side. However, the store "genius" is usually there to help with technical problems and doesn't do sales. He or she doesn't make any money by selling a more expensive phone. And he or she would carry an extreme risk if the customer talks to anyone who knows what they are doing, returns the phone and gives as a reason that he was ripped off.

Still doesn't make it right. He probably checked with his kids, and they said go to apple, they won't rip you off. He apparently blew more bucks than he needed but perhaps it didn't bother him.

If he checked with his kids, then most likely he will check with the kids again, return to the store, and the sales person will be in trouble. And since the sales person knows that, the likelihood of all this actually happening is quite low.

 

[Troneas]

If the story is true, it's the sales person who was bad. It has nothing to do with Apple. Sure, some people may say that Apple should train their employee better. But sales people are human: some are bad. There is no reasonable measure to prevent a sales person with a bad intention to behave that way.

ultimately, the salesperson represents apple, though.


it is not just about training.


someone hired this person, conducted an interview, trained him, motivated, him supervised him... and likewise with the person responsible to train this salesperson.

so its the outlet managers fault. where was he? was he supposed to be there supervising? and who hired, trained, motivated him?

so yes, it is Apple. this doesnt mean Apple as a whole treats their customers this way, or that they endorse this sort of practice, but these salespeople are the face and reps of the Apple brand.


if i go to a hotel and get treated like **** by the receptionist, i wont think oh well its just this person being rude... i will leave and never come back and complain to the manager because someone is not doing their job properly - starting with the receptionist and moving onto the manager who isnt training or motivating.

 

[class77]

Jimmy, could you not have butted in and told the old guy he didn't need the 64, he just needed the 16?

I agree with your premise that the man should have been able to rely on the Genius for the proper sizing of the iPhone. Expertise is why they are in the stores.

 

[alphaod]

I was at an Apple Store today picking up a Mac that needed fixing. While I was waiting for them to bring it out, I overheard a conversation between an Apple "Genius" and an elderly man who was buying an iPhone for the first time. He said his old phone that he had for 10 years broke, and he wanted to buy an iPhone to do FaceTime with his grandkids. The guy was unsure about most of the features and generally unfamiliar with the iPhone. The genius asked him if he takes any pictures, watches movies, or plays games and he said no. The genius then asked him how many people he plans on calling on it. I wondered why this made a difference so I listened closely while standing nearby to hear the explanation. The old man said about 10 people, and the genius told him that to fit 10 phone numbers he would need to buy the 64 GB. He was hesitant but said ok and the genius walked off smiling. When he came out with the iPhone he whispered to his buddy who laughed, I'm assuming he told him what he did although I couldn't hear. I felt like explaining to the man how he just got swindled while the guy was in the back but I did not want to implicated in the whole thing, but I regret not saying anything now. I am going to question the next Apple purchase I make. This is appalling.

It's bad, but since you've already eaves dropped, why didn't you step in an inform the man he didn't need the 64GB model when the sales guys went to get the phone?

 

[725032]

OP you really should have said something.

All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

 

[Mrbobb]

ALL businesses SELL UP. Of course management never tell the employee to lie, all they have say is, "Move those 64G!" or "Jonny, ur quota is a little low this month."

 

[NC12309]

I love how no matter what you people ALWAYS stick up for crApple.

You're going to blame it on the old man for no researching before going in to buy the phone?

Why the hell do they call themselves the GENIUS BAR! They're supposed to give you honest answers and help you and not rip you off.

 

[rocknblogger]

To some extent, yes.

If one doesn't inform himself, he will be taken advantage of 9 times out of 10 in my experience.

A lot of people who are not tech knowledgeable let alone savvy, won't even know what to research. Many people don't even know that smartphones come in different capacities. Its really unfair to expect an elderly person to know any of that. Or that he needs to do research.

 

[aristobrat]

Why the hell do they call themselves the GENIUS BAR! They're supposed to give you honest answers and help you and not rip you off.

In terms of the scope of the OP, you don't goto a Genius at the Genius Bar to buy things. Employees with the job title of Genius repair broken things, and as already mentioned, you have to schedule an appointment to meet with one of them. Geniuses are almost always slammed packed with customers at the Genius Bar, and on the rare occasions that they aren't, they almost always go in their room in the back of house to work on the queue of machines waiting to be repaired. It's extremely rare (like a unicorn siting) to see a Genius on the sales floor answering general product questions and selling products. However, it's been my experience that when they do that, they give some if the better recommendations, as they almost always know the products better than most of the regular sales folks do.

No regular Apple employee gets a commission/spiff for selling products, or has a quota of certain sized products to sell. When I worked there, they tracked the percentage of AppleCare and One to Ones that you sold, but that was it. Even then, at the store I worked at, if you were overheard doing a hard sell on either, you got in trouble.

Could this Apple employee have talked a guy into a 64gb iPhone? Sure. Did this employee profit from having done so? Extremely unlikely. Did this employee set himself for a potentially bad situation if anyone in the customers family figures this out and sends the customer back to return it for a smaller one and complain? Very much so, IMO.

 

[inselstudent]

I must admit that at first I thought that the thread title was wrong - because it wasn't Apple but the employee - but then again if Apple retail does give bonuses if employees sell more expensive versions of products, then it is indeed Apple that is the culprit here because IMO they kinda make their staff behave like that. And that's very pitiful. I guess most firms act in similar ways though.