Converted2Truth said:Great. Just what we need... another underpowered overpriced show-off toy. Thanks Jobs... you're really gonna shake the world with this
That's the same complaint that a lot of people had with the iPod.
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Apple Tablet Computer?
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That's the same complaint that a lot of people had with the iPod.
Come on MacRumors. How can this not be on the webpage?
We haven't had any updates to MacRumors in a while. This seems worthy.
Bad as it is.
http://www.forbes.com/markets/2004/08/16/0816automarketscan11.html?partner=yahoo&referrer=
We haven't had any updates to MacRumors in a while. This seems worthy.
Bad as it is.
http://www.forbes.com/markets/2004/08/16/0816automarketscan11.html?partner=yahoo&referrer=
amberashby said:
Anyone fancy explaining finance to me? A company announces bad news - and say i'm a shareholder, I have to sell to get a good return on my shares because everyone else is going to sell - but why does everyone sell! If everyone kept the shares the value of the company would stay up and their shares would be worth more...? (sorry completeley off topic)
iPad would be Awesome!!
I agree completely, the talk about a remote control or simply a detachable display doesn't seem to provide enough value-add to make it a worthwhile purchase. I wouldn't buy either of these.
I sort of agree with this. There are certainly portable video players around, and I don't see the point if that's all they do.
That being said, I think most people on this thread are vastly underestimating how useful a tablet type device would be. Sure, it could act as a picture display (great for showing digital photos to people) and a video clip display(wanna see the home movie of my kid catching his first salmon? Waiting in line for concert tickets? - let's watch some sitcom I taped the other day.) and a remote control, and a wireless display - but it could be much more.
eBooks and PDFs are a great use case. I read books and magazines constantly, but often find myself waiting for something and wishing I had a newspaper or article or something to read - but nowhere around to easily get one, so I end up reading something I don't like (cereal boxes at times). I also don't remember to carry my latest novel around with me, but I would remember something I take everywhere, like my wallet and car keys. Another case - you're doing any kind of home project - look, I can have all of the manuals and information about my fingertips. And I can display them in a convenient way (when I'm under my car working on something). And maybe modify some plans as I go. And make notes of things I need to get at the store. Just like your entire music collection, how about having your whole book collection with you at all times? Now THAT's cool, and I think it will take something like this to make eBooks really take off. The problem with them now is that they are tethered to something bulkier than the book itself.
Random happenings - how about thinking about buying something at the mall, and not being sure how it fits into your budget plans? Turn on your instant on tablet, and play with a spreadsheet for a couple of minutes. OK, so you're going to buy it, but not sure which one to get? Hit Google and check the product reviews. (Yes, this would take ubiqutous WiFi coverage. I think it's coming, and devices like this would help push it forward.)
And I'm only thinking of at home - in a workplace, it would be amazing - meetings, notes, impromptu presentations and instant access to information and web apps. I carry around a notebook with me everywhere at work to capture info and show people diagrams, and something like this would be so much better.
The tablet PCs haven't caught on because they are (as most things from Microsoft) poorly designed - way too big and bulky for the average person to carry around (they have to bulk up the specs to run their crappy OS), and WAY too expensive (about 3x the price I think is appropriate).
The key is having a screen big enough to actually work with, and not one of those annoyingly small PDA screens that are a PITA to use. No one likes looking at a 3 inch screen for any length of time, and they are useless to try and do anything with. I figure 8"-10" diagonal would be about right.
I keep watching Apple for this, because they seem to be the ONLY company that seems to have a chance of getting it right. I see things from other companies that fall flat because they aren't focusing on how these things might be used or fit into someone's life.
Take the Palm Tungsten C, give it a 8" screen (widescreen ratio), a flat thin battery attached on the back (for a long battery life) and an iPod docking slot (or MP3 and internal HD).
Colonel Panik said:
I agree completely, the talk about a remote control or simply a detachable display doesn't seem to provide enough value-add to make it a worthwhile purchase. I wouldn't buy either of these.
Colonel Panik said:
I sort of agree with this. There are certainly portable video players around, and I don't see the point if that's all they do.
That being said, I think most people on this thread are vastly underestimating how useful a tablet type device would be. Sure, it could act as a picture display (great for showing digital photos to people) and a video clip display(wanna see the home movie of my kid catching his first salmon? Waiting in line for concert tickets? - let's watch some sitcom I taped the other day.) and a remote control, and a wireless display - but it could be much more.
eBooks and PDFs are a great use case. I read books and magazines constantly, but often find myself waiting for something and wishing I had a newspaper or article or something to read - but nowhere around to easily get one, so I end up reading something I don't like (cereal boxes at times). I also don't remember to carry my latest novel around with me, but I would remember something I take everywhere, like my wallet and car keys. Another case - you're doing any kind of home project - look, I can have all of the manuals and information about my fingertips. And I can display them in a convenient way (when I'm under my car working on something). And maybe modify some plans as I go. And make notes of things I need to get at the store. Just like your entire music collection, how about having your whole book collection with you at all times? Now THAT's cool, and I think it will take something like this to make eBooks really take off. The problem with them now is that they are tethered to something bulkier than the book itself.
Random happenings - how about thinking about buying something at the mall, and not being sure how it fits into your budget plans? Turn on your instant on tablet, and play with a spreadsheet for a couple of minutes. OK, so you're going to buy it, but not sure which one to get? Hit Google and check the product reviews. (Yes, this would take ubiqutous WiFi coverage. I think it's coming, and devices like this would help push it forward.)
And I'm only thinking of at home - in a workplace, it would be amazing - meetings, notes, impromptu presentations and instant access to information and web apps. I carry around a notebook with me everywhere at work to capture info and show people diagrams, and something like this would be so much better.
The tablet PCs haven't caught on because they are (as most things from Microsoft) poorly designed - way too big and bulky for the average person to carry around (they have to bulk up the specs to run their crappy OS), and WAY too expensive (about 3x the price I think is appropriate).
The key is having a screen big enough to actually work with, and not one of those annoyingly small PDA screens that are a PITA to use. No one likes looking at a 3 inch screen for any length of time, and they are useless to try and do anything with. I figure 8"-10" diagonal would be about right.
I keep watching Apple for this, because they seem to be the ONLY company that seems to have a chance of getting it right. I see things from other companies that fall flat because they aren't focusing on how these things might be used or fit into someone's life.
Take the Palm Tungsten C, give it a 8" screen (widescreen ratio), a flat thin battery attached on the back (for a long battery life) and an iPod docking slot (or MP3 and internal HD).
Veldek said:
They won't is all. UNLESS Apple (like they always do) redefine what a "tablet" does.
I had an HP top-of-the-line tablet. Bottom line is it smelled something awful. Now, if Apple looks at the failings of the standard tablet (which I'm sure they have) and look at any niches created by the iPod and the Airport Express, it wouldn't surprise me if it's a video device to compliment iLife for home use. Not nesessarily a "tablet" in the regular sense of the word, with handwriting recognition and a slow processor, but rather a way to, on demand, control, watch and broadcast video. Makes sense to my pea brain. Oh, and this could also be another false alarm created by the trillion patents they file evey year, an over-zelous media, and the hourdes of gullible folks.... like us.
salmon said:
Too big. I'd never carry it, and I don't thnk anyone else will want to either. If it can't fit in a pocket, it's for home use. If it CAN fit in a pocket, then they have created a miracle in cramming everything needed into it, to an extent the world has not seen to this point.
bored13 said:
I might sound like the most pessimistic one here, but what you described is.. a laptop.... or a tablet. All those things could be done on my tablet, but it was awkward and slow. I and many others field tested it, and it was of no value to anyone I know. (I'm in edu, and have lots of admin users). The fact it's "Apple" makes little difference since the concept and application is exactly the same. Oh, and just HOLDING the thing was like holding a slippery fish. What to hold on to while you wrote? Sideways? On your lap? Horrible ergonomics! It was never comfortable unless I had the keyboard attached... but then it was a laptop! And a dismally slow one at that. There is a REASON why tablets are doing poorly... they stink.
Nah, Apple needs to re-define the concept. Make it for home use. Get the masses interested. Add video. Make it easy. Make it "cool" like thay always do. But do NOT make a tablet!
Les Kern said:
I'm not convinced it would be too big for anyone else - I would carry it. And I know quite a few people that carry around purses/backpacks/shoulder bags, with books and electronic gadgets and the usual important stuff. I just think it would be so darn useful that people would put up with a bit of inconvenience to carry it around, because they have for other things.
I definitely agree that there are people who would find it too big, but I really have no idea what the % is.
salmon said:
Ummm NO. Here is the problem that people aren't getting. People equate Tablet PC (PC in the generic form that also includes Macs.) with PDA. The two don't compete against one another at all. Totally different form factors totally different uses. Tablet PC's more or less compete with laptop. In that type of device segment their weight is perfectly fine. (The lightest tablet PC is aprox 4lbs.) And even then it could be argued that the Tablet (slate) and the laptop markets are their own segment of a market just as the desktop and laptop and PDA are all separate.
The reasons the tablet PC has yet to successfully catch on are three fold:
First and foremost this is Microsoft software. They wouldn't know a good GUI design if it bit them in the butt. They are taking the Windows GUI and slapping it into a tablet or convertible form factor. That WILL NOT work. If the tablet is going to catch on it is going to need a rewrite of the GUI from the ground up. So much so that I will put forth the idea that even OS X in its current incarnation wouldn't work all that well.
Second is the hardware. As I've stated before the Tablet PC is currently offered in two forms: The pure bred slate format that has no keyboard and the convertible that has the screen swivel and lay flat face up against the keyboard. I firmly believe the second format, convertible, is the direction all notebooks are going in one form or another. It allows the user to have the flexibility of a notebook with the features of a tablet. The convertible is an ingenious format that will catch on once prices come down. And that is the key. Right now the price of an EM digitizer is still dang spendy. (Note that MS's tablet PC specs requires that the screen be a EM screen instead of a touch screen. e.g. It's more like a WaCom tablet then a PDA.) Until these prices fall don't expect to see widespread use of a tablet.
Third is price. MS is, last I read, gutting their OEM's with the price of the tablet PC OS. (Basically nothing more then XP with a few feature bolted on.) Way to push the format MS!
Lets see here. The tablet PC is still a niche market to return on investments at this point are going to be a drop in the bucket AND the OEM is expected to pay more for the OS then typical laptops. Yah. I'm seeing a real incentive for companies to make a tablet PC. I firmly believe that the tablet convertible market is there. Not only is it there but its going to reinvent the portable computer altogether when it happens but someone has to step up to the plate and bring software AND hardware together in a way that just clicks. Hmmm now who do we know who has a knack for such a process?
Les Kern said:
I think there's a gap between a laptop, which is big, bulky, no touchscreen & awkward mouse, and a PDA which has a screen that is too small to do anything useful on, but great in a lot of other ways. The tablets that are out now seem to have taken the worst of both worlds, not the best.
Les Kern said:
The keyboard/text entry ergonomics question is a difficult one, and probably what has kept this from being a successful idea in the past - a thumb type keyboard would be the best that I've seen. But I would also argue that just because no one has solved this problem before, doesn't mean it's not possible, and if there's any company that has a shot at getting it right, it's definitely Apple.
SiliconAddict said:
Oh, I get it - that's the current state of affairs, but missing that middle ground is, IMHO, why tablet pcs suck. Microsoft made this current definition of "tablet", same as they managed to convince people that rebooting a computer 15 times a day is OK - but it's not right. More on this below.
SiliconAddict said:
I agree whole-heartedly. And dealing with this bloat drives the hardware specs up, which drives the cost up, etc, etc. To me, the CPU power in PDAs is about right - the most intensive processing I can see doing with a tablet is showing a video.
SiliconAddict said:
The keyboard/ergonomic question is a difficult one, because a stylus is the best for working, but a keyboard is essential for any type of text entry. The OQO is somewhat interesting, but I think will fail because it's got Windows XP on it (see point 1).
SiliconAddict said:Third is price. MS is, last I read, gutting their OEM's with the price of the tablet PC OS. (Basically nothing more then XP with a few feature bolted on.) Way to push the format MS!
I didn't realize this is why the prices are so high, all I know is that they are. WAY too high - about 3x what they should be.
A light OS is the essential starting point. And Apple won't be wanting to put Aqua on one of these things, but they have an OS that is way more scalable than XP. There's a lot of desktop stuff they can strip out of OS X, then create a simple windowing manager.
You may be right about the ergonomics... I already have a powerbook and two tablets (graphire which is pretty small not very precise and a intuos 12in. x 12in. which is great but not portable at all) but if i could simplify everything into one thing especially if I could draw on the screen and be portable it would be a dream come true for me. About it being a slow computer I don't expect it to be fast which is why I wouldn't use it for high end stuff. I don't know how apple could pull this off but I will say that if they can't make it better than the tablet pc's I would rather be left wishing than being disappointed.Les Kern said:
Why does this whole thing have to be so complicated. It's most likely just a nice touch screen remote for airtunes, that displays and controls the songs in iTunes and controls volume. They could sell this for $150-$200. This is something I and everyone else who has an airport express on the oppisite end of thier house from thier Mac, need. There are very few people in this world who NEED a tablet.
Mmmm... my new Apple tablet will be...
... the following:
- small enough to carry easily around in the house
- wallmount dockable, i.e. hanging in the kitchen to access recipes or watch the news...
- a remote for my iTunes library
- able to display my shared iPhoto and movie library via AX/AE
- a remote for myMac based TV settop, and record TV to my harddisk
- able to recognize handwriting (ink) so I can take quick notes and drawings
- have iChat AV compability (built in cam/mic?)
- a remote for my doorbell and feature frontdoor video through iChat
- has a touch screen for easy functionality
- does not feature a full scale OS X - but just basic functionality (no need for a high power processor).
Remember the rumours that Palm (I think) did development for a remote feature for their products and asked to discontinue by Apple?
I actually miss a simple computer add on to be able to control iTunes/AX and show pictures (not everyone has a computer in the living room, and a computer is hardly as attractive to show pictures on when sitting in the couch as something resembling a real album...) - something more rugged, that can take some dirt when carried in the kitchen, bathroom, garden, pool area, wherever...
Please Apple...
... the following:
- small enough to carry easily around in the house
- wallmount dockable, i.e. hanging in the kitchen to access recipes or watch the news...
- a remote for my iTunes library
- able to display my shared iPhoto and movie library via AX/AE
- a remote for myMac based TV settop, and record TV to my harddisk
- able to recognize handwriting (ink) so I can take quick notes and drawings
- have iChat AV compability (built in cam/mic?)
- a remote for my doorbell and feature frontdoor video through iChat
- has a touch screen for easy functionality
- does not feature a full scale OS X - but just basic functionality (no need for a high power processor).
Remember the rumours that Palm (I think) did development for a remote feature for their products and asked to discontinue by Apple?
I actually miss a simple computer add on to be able to control iTunes/AX and show pictures (not everyone has a computer in the living room, and a computer is hardly as attractive to show pictures on when sitting in the couch as something resembling a real album...) - something more rugged, that can take some dirt when carried in the kitchen, bathroom, garden, pool area, wherever...
Please Apple...
izzle22 said:
Yeah, but the moment apple releases THAT device there will be 5,000,000 screaming mac fans ranting about why they "didn't do a proper job", and "lost opportunity" & "typical under-specced apple product" on NEWS.COM and C/NET.
You see, we all kind of "know" that an 8 - 10 inch screen slim tablet COULD be a great device for many many uses, as long as the screen quality, battery life, processor speed, hardrive and wireless connectivity is up to snuff, AND the interface, input devices and ergonomics are responsive and intuitive.
But miss just ONE of those and it will be another also-ran.
Much as I am a futurist fan-boy of wireless handheld tech, I don't actually believe Apple or anyone else has all of their technological ducks in a row for this just yet.
At any price...
Love to be wrong though.
salmon said:
Yes. Somebody has to produce a decent e-book reader at some stage. I hope it's Apple because they have a lot of the right business model set up already with iTunes/iTMS/iPod. Just being able to read standard PDFs in a convenient reader would be a start.
Dashboard
Doesn't anybody think that the REAL reason for Dashboard may be that those web-java applets (that can link back to real Mac apps, like the iTunes controller) may be the exact things that run on this new device?
What other interesting Dashboard Applets were there by default from Apple? And what other possibilities are there?
I must admit I haven't read everything on the forum. But I've done a quick find through every page for "Dash"board.Xgreed said:
Doesn't anybody think that the REAL reason for Dashboard may be that those web-java applets (that can link back to real Mac apps, like the iTunes controller) may be the exact things that run on this new device?
What other interesting Dashboard Applets were there by default from Apple? And what other possibilities are there?
Hmmm. Speaking of desktop/laptop compromises, Apple may already be onto something...
You know, despite what some people may say about 'em, I find my 17" pbook to be just about perfect ergonomically...but I'm a pretty big guy. However, my 5'5 room-mate, whom I outweigh by about 85 pounds...well, she likes it just fine, too, and so does everyone else I talk to who uses them for light-duty programs. It's no trouble at all to carry around in a nice case...fits into the lap nicely...it's very lightweight, but the battery only lasts for about 3 hours, so you've got to compromise somewhere...
And, hey, if Apple and IBM ever decide to fit a modern processor into it, like a G5 or some revamped G4 or something, I'd never even want to hear the words "AMD64" or even "fast M-chip" again. Who cares if it winds up being a little thicker and heavier...it seems to me to be the perfect compromise between a desktop and laptop anyway...you can plug a mouse or a display or whatever into it...and we all know how much of a demand there already is for fast powerbooks as compared to, um, what were they called ? Oh yeah..."Tablets"...that's right...I thought I knew someone once who heard of someone who actually used one every now and then...
You know, despite what some people may say about 'em, I find my 17" pbook to be just about perfect ergonomically...but I'm a pretty big guy. However, my 5'5 room-mate, whom I outweigh by about 85 pounds...well, she likes it just fine, too, and so does everyone else I talk to who uses them for light-duty programs. It's no trouble at all to carry around in a nice case...fits into the lap nicely...it's very lightweight, but the battery only lasts for about 3 hours, so you've got to compromise somewhere...
And, hey, if Apple and IBM ever decide to fit a modern processor into it, like a G5 or some revamped G4 or something, I'd never even want to hear the words "AMD64" or even "fast M-chip" again. Who cares if it winds up being a little thicker and heavier...it seems to me to be the perfect compromise between a desktop and laptop anyway...you can plug a mouse or a display or whatever into it...and we all know how much of a demand there already is for fast powerbooks as compared to, um, what were they called ? Oh yeah..."Tablets"...that's right...I thought I knew someone once who heard of someone who actually used one every now and then...
Do this at a decent price point and I would be interested. Even more so if I could use BT and connect a keyboard to have a second machine for word processing...
iMan said:... the following:
- small enough to carry easily around in the house
- wallmount dockable, i.e. hanging in the kitchen to access recipes or watch the news...
- a remote for my iTunes library
- able to display my shared iPhoto and movie library via AX/AE
- a remote for myMac based TV settop, and record TV to my harddisk
- able to recognize handwriting (ink) so I can take quick notes and drawings
- have iChat AV compability (built in cam/mic?)
- a remote for my doorbell and feature frontdoor video through iChat
- has a touch screen for easy functionality
- does not feature a full scale OS X - but just basic functionality (no need for a high power processor).
Remember the rumours that Palm (I think) did development for a remote feature for their products and asked to discontinue by Apple?
I actually miss a simple computer add on to be able to control iTunes/AX and show pictures (not everyone has a computer in the living room, and a computer is hardly as attractive to show pictures on when sitting in the couch as something resembling a real album...) - something more rugged, that can take some dirt when carried in the kitchen, bathroom, garden, pool area, wherever...
Please Apple...
ArticulatedArm said:
This could help drown out external noise so you could have an ultra sensitive mic on your throat allowing you to input with the tiniest whisper. A throat mic would also be a much better design for this system.
blackberry
http://blackberry.com/
yet another hand held device that I didn't know about but which could be of some inspiration to Apple although Apple's version probably wouldn't be squarely aimed at corporate staff...
http://blackberry.com/
yet another hand held device that I didn't know about but which could be of some inspiration to Apple although Apple's version probably wouldn't be squarely aimed at corporate staff...
Attachments
I'll second that
As my first post on these forums, I know this may draw some fire, but I have found my Toshiba M200 tablet to be a great tool. Not only do I carry my entire music collection on my iPod. I carry the notes for every meeting and phone call I have ever taken since adopting the Tablet.
Is it perfect - no. Could a better platform for a tablet be developed by Apple using OS X - definitely. It always amazes me when Apple lovers (which I am as well) site poor sales as proof the MSFT failed and that the idea is inherently flawed - by that measure, one must conclude that OS X is a terrible operating system since it has under 5% of the OS market. Where MSFT has come up short is with a killer app - they need one badly for the Tablet and are getting closer with OneNote.
I would guess at least 95% of those critical of the MS Tablet have never touched a working tablet let alone applied one to their daily professional life.
Those who conclude regarding the viability and usefulness of products they have never used become pretty quiet once they find themselves using the technology and touting it as great. Then, ironically, they criticize others who don't see the technology as valuable. Many on this thread have pointed out the slow initial adoption of the 5+ gig MP3 player - a great illustration of this point.
ozone said:
As my first post on these forums, I know this may draw some fire, but I have found my Toshiba M200 tablet to be a great tool. Not only do I carry my entire music collection on my iPod. I carry the notes for every meeting and phone call I have ever taken since adopting the Tablet.
Is it perfect - no. Could a better platform for a tablet be developed by Apple using OS X - definitely. It always amazes me when Apple lovers (which I am as well) site poor sales as proof the MSFT failed and that the idea is inherently flawed - by that measure, one must conclude that OS X is a terrible operating system since it has under 5% of the OS market. Where MSFT has come up short is with a killer app - they need one badly for the Tablet and are getting closer with OneNote.
I would guess at least 95% of those critical of the MS Tablet have never touched a working tablet let alone applied one to their daily professional life.
Those who conclude regarding the viability and usefulness of products they have never used become pretty quiet once they find themselves using the technology and touting it as great. Then, ironically, they criticize others who don't see the technology as valuable. Many on this thread have pointed out the slow initial adoption of the 5+ gig MP3 player - a great illustration of this point.