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Apple Tablet Design Reportedly Akin to Flattened First-Generation iPhone

sishaw said:
Perhaps your search wasn't specific enough, because the word "designer" includes clothing designers, interior designers, etc. Search "best product designer in the world" and Ive comes up first.
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I agree completely, but the post I was replying to did not add any qualifiers:

MacFly123 said:
Just a little guy named JONATHAN IVE, widely held as THE BEST designer in the world!!!
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___________

sishaw said:
Even using Google, a search is improved if one thinks first.
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Even using MacRumours, a post is improved if one thinks first.
 
ashley1496 said:
I totally agree these are separate Markets. However, I still think those markets are smaller and not the people that are in Apple's target demographic.
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Apple's demographic? Apple's Demographic is whoever has money to plop down to buy one of these. That's it. Or are you one of those folks that believe on the "chosen" people buy Apple products? You have to be a "pro" or a "creative pro" , or "think different" to buy an Apple product. if that is your hidden premise than that is your flawed thinking to your market analysis.



I was merely commenting on the place in the market for their target demographic (who at least have a smart phone or a laptop if not both, in my opinion.)
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Eh? So the targeted market is people who have more than one computer you want to sell a 3rd computer to? Versus perhaps people who may not have bought your more than one of your product yet.


I'm not buying this. I am actually at the point now where I'm done with my laptop and I could tell you I would not buy a tablet instead of a new laptop. There will simply be things that the tablet can't do that a laptop can.
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You by yourself are not a market that is worth of targeting a whole product category to. If there are folks who don't need the full range of flexibilty of a laptop then those folks are the market. Because you are not in it does not mean it doesn't exist or that it must be smaller. A market is a aggregate of people, not some individuals.




And I can't see Apple wanting people buying a $700-$1000 device instead of their $1000-Up MacBook Pros.
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What apple wants is moot. Apple is not buying the product. For those people who only have a budget of $700 it is buy an Apple product or another vendors product (which may not be quite as good but will fill their needs).
If the consumer didn't matter then we'd all pay $2000 for laptops because that was better for Apple. It is the consumer's perception of value that matters when considering a market; not the vendors.





They are completely separate devices and a tablet can't replace a laptop.
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If the device didn't exist before consumers did not have a choice. If they wanted something in the middle they either stretched and paid too much or paid less and made compromises. There are tons of folks for whom a MacBook is grossly overpowered for what they want to do with a computer.



Isn't that why the PC tablets failed?
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Tablets failed for these reasons:

i. Too expensive. Vast majority of tablets were laptops+extra stuff. You are then confronted with two choices. Either cripple the laptop half (to shave off costs) or make it more expensive.

Case in point if the Mac Book Air cost less than the MacBook which one would Apple sell more of? Did you notice the decline in MB Air sales when the 13" pro came into existance and closed the gap on the Air. The Air costs more with little differentation. The MacBookPro 13" sells more.

Tablets should cost less than laptops. That will give them a better opportunity to sell in higher numbers than laptops.

In order to get costs down chuck stuff don't absolutely need. ( ports, keyboards, etc. ). Stripped down to the bare essentials.


ii. Similar dubious "just replicate regular laptops" on the software side as well. Drop an GUI (not OS ) on them that bascially the same thing as a keyboard/mouse with the screen as a alternative mouse. Buzz, the control objects are sized relative to a mouse cursor , not a finger.
What you need is an GUI with control widgets sized around the size of finger. .... you know like iPhoneOS GUI.

New GUI also opens opportunity to reset expectations. You can get rid of laptop things that are problematical ( e.g., multitasking apps so that can extend battery life, etc. ). So have a device where you primarily do one thing at a time (and that is OK. )


iii. Start thinking beyond ~80 hardcord keys. There are numerous world languages which are not conducive to 26 letters, 10 numbers, and a sprinkling of characters. The more natural entry for these is two write them. A virtual keyboard allows you to ship one product to a worldwide market without having to tweak the physical keyboard for each one. [ this too can cut costs/overhead by playing to the strengths of the touch surface. ]


iv. batttery life, battery life , battery life.

A pad and pencil can last through a 10 hours of meetings. Can a tablet?

[ and yes this very likely means need to dump the x86 stuff by the wayside. ]



Example--I am a more casual laptop user. I mainly surf the internet, use email, manage my iTunes library and sync my iPhone, work on various Word/Excel doc for work. I also take my laptop on the occasional trip to watch movies on the plane. I think it wouldn't be user friendly to take my tablet on the plane and have to hold it or lay it flat on the fold out table to see the movie. I'd rather have a laptop for this.
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You have both a phone and laptop. The other person has just a device (which likely weighs less than any laptop). They sleep on the flight instead of watching a movie.... or perish the thought read something ( which as no where near the storage requirements. ). How many movies are you going to watch... you only need one. [ it doesn't have to be your walking digital library. ]


You are very carefully picking activities which disqualify. Next time on a plane how many folks are watching their own movie. Very few no where near the majority. This isn't really an analysis of what the majority of other people around you are doing ... it all keeps circling back to "I do x and I do y". You are not a market.




And as for the MacBook Air, it hasn't done very well and I've been hearing a ton of rumble that they're phasing it out.
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Could it possibly be because it is relatively MORE expensive with little value differentiation to justify the cost??? If it cost less and delivered less that isn't a inherent problem.






I brought up this point in terms of portability. I think there is a market for a device that lets you watch TV on the go in a more user-friendly manner.
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Not sure why Tivo-to-go files wouldn't work on this. Perhaps with a minor software upgrade so that could match the resolution, but there is no inherent blocker. But that isn't tablet specific. Same file could be laptop. The laptop vs. pad differentiate on price and weight and size. Some, probably most, folks are going to go with the lighter, better battery life, more affordable device to watch movies if that is there 10 top list of things to do.
 
muskratboy said:
i'm with the other guy... everyone i know with a 3G has some cracks, somewhere.

mine, of course, showed up about a week after my year of applecare expired. i'm sure apple has a patent on THAT sensor.

you're just lucky that furiously masturbating doesn't make it crack... only us humpers have got the problem. and your mom says hi. :D
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Just for the record, I always pull my pants down to masturbate.
 
AWESOME!

The care cup is half full now.

As long as it doesn't run the iPhone OS or anything near that, here is one customer.
 
What if... Apple wants lots of new customers to have 3g. So, they pair with Verizon (the new customer base) and verizon allows it's existing data customers to add the tablet to their existing service, at no extra cost, until the customer's contract comes up for renewal.

Or, ATT, but it seems that the gloss may be off that particular rose. It would make more sense, however for Apple to do a GSM based tablet, since CDMA is basically only north america.

Dual mode, maybe?
 
Add an optionally usable stylus, with a good sketching and note taking app, and I'm in. I just need a few pen colors, eraser, powerful note organization, PDF export. It would be even better if I could use it with Photoshop, as an LCD digitizer tablet. Even if it's not powerful enough to run Photoshop, it could be used as a wireless peripheral with a real Mac. Then I could replace my heavy, overheating Vista Fujitsu tablet (which I love otherwise).

Unfortunately I doubt Apple will add a wacom digitizer. Touch screen is nice, but I have no use for it if I can't ink sketches, formulas, engineering diagrams, and edit photos with it. If they add a pen, I'll definitely develop a few apps for it.
 
catrik007 said:
If true then this means the rumors of a 7 inch ereader and a 10 inch tablet are true, I hope we dont have to wait to later this year like fall:(

Catrik007

Moved to More Tablet Rumors: Dual Dock Connectors, Antenna Panel and Optional 3G Support?
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The linked article is speculation. You cannot confirm a rumor with speculation.
 
APPLENEWBIE said:
So, educate me. Does Verizon use a different data radio then ATT?
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It is not whether they are different, but rather similar enough can cover with the same chip ( that has multiple 'personalities' ).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3G

Notice that the "Channel" column on the "Overview of 3G/IMT-2000 standards" table there.

Verizon EV-DO CDMA
AT&T HSPA CDMA




People are generally being pretty sloppy around here with "CDMA". Technically CDMA is a generic technology that is utilized over several protocols used by phones (including the ones folks sloppily label GSM.). Most of the differences lie more so in how they handle telephone and non TCP/IP traffic than in the generic internet protocol (IP) technologies.

Qualcomm has a chip that bridges just the data networks.

http://gobianywhere.com/products.php



Generically the "radio" is the part that gets the signal from your device to the tower. Once at the tower there is other hocus pocus that needs to be done (what does this data mean, where does it go, etc. ). If it is just TCP/IP packets that is pretty straightword and doesn't get trapped in the legacy telephone/txt message/etc handling stuff. There is a bit of control ( where are you, switching towers now, still there? ) stuff but that is still mainly between the towers and the device and mosly decoupled from backend network.



CDMA2000 is the telephony/voice technology that Verizon/Sprint use that is much harder to come up with a single chip that encodes that and the legacy GSM telephony/voice technology.
 
deconstruct60 said:
iv. batttery life, battery life , battery life.
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Bingo. If Apple can make a GUI that doesn't need a keyboard and mouse to surf the web (both news and flash video), read a book, play music, play games, look at photos, has a small cam, navigate maps with GPS, read email and limited writing, and share files with your desktop computer... then that's pretty versatile and a pretty good niche. But only if the battery lasts all day and it's over WiFi and 3G is only optional.

I detest a laptop's touchpad, I end up carrying a mouse to plug in, and usually don't like laptop keyboards either. And for a cellphone, I use a cellphone. The iphone is just way too small for me, for all the things it tries to do.

I have no idea whether they can do this at a price point that would make me want to buy one. Or if that's what Apple has in mind, who knows?
 
Clown Boy said:
Major fail by Steve Jobs and Apple.

Jobs aint going to go out on a blaze of glory like everyone was expecting. He will crash and burn just like Apple's stock value when this white elephant gets released.

Yeah it looks cool, but quite frankly the device is going to be a nightmare to use. type on, view and carry around. Its like another Nintendo Wii, everybody wants it, but nobody actually uses it except the odd game with your Gran on Christmas day. FAIL FAIL FAIL!

I have seen the future of computing and its this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmIgNfp-MdI

Note to Steve. Turn off the lights in Cupertino when you leave. Thanks for the memories big guy...

:cool::cool::cool:
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Quoting to look back on in 12 months.
 
catrik007 said:
this article explains the con side of OLED

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/09/14/from_oled_to_tegra_five_myths_of_the_zune_hd.html
:(

I now trust Apple to choose the better technology :D

Catrik007
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That was just an attack piece on the Zune masquerading as a public information. Here is the counter point for balance..

From the OLED Association:

Response to APPLE INSIDER Post on the Microsoft ZUNE
,
September 16, 2009

The “Apple Insider”: a Display Outsider or an Apple Shill?

On Monday, Prince McLean released a blog post titled “From OLED to Tegra: Five Myths of the Zune HD.” I won’t comment about the other 4 Myths but his comments about OLEDs demonstrate a complete lack of knowledge regarding the performance, specifications and use of flat panel displays. He makes several erroneous statements about OLEDS, including:

First OLED myth: “OLEDs are dimmer that LCDs because the luminance is only 200 cd/m2, while LCDs have luminance of 400-500 cd/m2.” LCDs TVs have luminance of 4-500 cd/m2, but displays on mobile devices is typically 200 to 250 cd/m2. The display on the Zune is spec’d at 250 cd/m2 before the addition of the touch features. Moreover, it has been demonstrated by Samsung, a TFT LCD supplier, that OLEDs at 250 cd/m2 have the same perceived brightness at TFT LCDs at 400 cd/m2.

Second OLED myth: “A good quality LCD actually uses ambient light to make its image brighter and more vibrant; OLED does not.” Mobile devices often use transflective LCDs, which operate in two modes, (1) a reflective mode in which the backlight if off and (2) a transmissive mode, in which the backlight is on. Both modes are compromises but serve the market well. OLEDs, which are emissive devices, use higher luminance to overcome the effect of high ambient conditions. Again, Samsung reports that OLEDs at 300 cd/m2 will outperform any transflective LCD is bright sunlight.

Third OLED myth: “There are other problems with OLED. They don’t last long, because the electroluminescence layer degrades far more rapidly than regular LCDs.” The OLED display in the Zune has a lifetime of 50,000 hours. Typically LCDs for mobile products are rated at ~25,000. However, none of this is very important – These types of products have a useful life of 5-years, which at 8 hours/day and 365 days a year is only 15,000 hours; well within the capability of either technology.
Fourth OLED myth: “And despite the power savings attributed to OLED’s backlight-free design, OLEDs still use more power than LCD displays most of the time because the OLED technology consumes power based on how bright the image it is displaying is. Essentially, OLED is the backlight”. It has been demonstrated and documented by Nokia that when the application is video or imaging, OLEDs use less than ½ the power of a comparable TFT LCD. McLean’s comment that the OLED is a backlight just demonstrates his lack of knowledge about displays. Emissive displays (OLEDs, PDPs) do not require backlights as they emit light without the need for an external source of light. If the image is black, i.e. the UI for the Apple iPod or the iPhone, an OLED uses almost no power, while the LCD uses maximum power under all conditions. The situation is so bad that LCD TVs are being designed with 100s of LEDs at high cost to implement local dimming to reduce power consumption.

Some questions remain:

1. Why would Microsoft choose an OLED for its Zune? Could it be that OLEDs are

· Thinner and Lighter – The display is only 1 mm thick

· Faster – The response time is 5 µsec compared with 5 msec for the best LCDs. There is no blurring or shadowing on the fastest images

· Better in color gamut – OLEDs operate at >100% of the NTSC standard, while LCDs for small displays operate at <100% of NTSC

· 1000x better than the contrast of LCDs – Most films, TV and camera images operate at an average of ~20% of saturated colors, i.e. relatively dark, so contrast ratio as defined by black levels is significant for viewing purposes. In bright sunlight reflective devices only produce <15% contrast ratio.

· More efficient – ~50% of the power for the applications used on the Zune and the iPod.

· Virtually perfect image reproducers at wide viewing angle – while LCDs could lose up to 90% of their contrast ratio

2. Why would Microsoft choose a dark environment to demonstrate the OLED? Because it looks so good!

3. Why would Prince McLean write about something that he obviously has so little knowledge? Could it be that the Apple Insider is trying to curry favor with the Apple management so it can become an even deeper shill? It has become a popular art to predict what Apple is going to do and the company is very careful to keep its information on new products, closely held, so McLean may be hoping to get better access. I did not comment about the “Other Myths” in McLean’s article but if they are anything like his comments about OLEDs, you can draw your own conclusions about their relevance.

Finally, I wonder how McLean would respond to the quote by Steve Jobs, when his display technologists showed him OLED displays for the first time, “that’s the best f—-n display I have ever seen.”



Thing is, if Apple decide to go with OLED, I'd bet that the likes of McLean will have a sudden conversion to the technology.
 
bobt said:
They should tie a data plan back to an iPhone data plan. If you own both, probably only using one or the other for data access at a time. So add $20 per month or something if you have both on one plan. Should be a big deal unless ATT or another unnamed carrier get greedy.
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How about just tethering your iPhone to it? When is tethering going to happen, anyway?
 
Padraig said:
The situation is so bad that LCD TVs are being designed with 100s of LEDs at high cost to implement local dimming to reduce power consumption.
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I think you'll find that the reason some TV's use local dimming is nothing to do with powersaving and all to do with increased black levels so they can compete with the superior blacks achievable with plasma technology. In fact most of the new LED backlit sets are now opting for edge lighting and not local dimming.

Regards,

John.
 
Drag'nGT said:
No USB means no ability to work and print from it nor can you connect your camera (a real camera) and upload photos to your website/blog/facebook. No data back up if you have work file etc on it.
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Everyone say this 30 times. "The tablet is not to replace the laptop"

It has it's own purpose in convenient ways. I happen to already have "on the go" ideas for this device already. And some entertainment thrills that everyone will get from it.

So let me say again. "The tablet is not to replace the laptop". And touch screens are NOT to replace mouses. They all have their own purpose.

And some of us will just buy this damn thing just because we can afford to spend money on the latest "gadgets" out there. us geeks that is, I'm definitely one of them.
 
scottness said:
How about just tethering your iPhone to it? When is tethering going to happen, anyway?
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I agree. But I think the reason we don't have it is, AT&T knows we can just skype people anytime anywhere (internationally) and not pay a single dime in minutes. This means access to the internet via satellite almost anywhere. So think about it. Just like if you were at home. Imagine driving down the road while doing iChat video with someone in romania for free. Normally $3.23 a minute.

I would be very surprised if cell companies keep unlimited data plans at only $49 a month for this much usage and transfer. Tethering opens up a WHOLE bunch of new issues for them. They will work it out to their favor. But hey, I really hope they prove me wrong. Unlimited (fast speed) tethering almost anywhere sounds to good to be true with a $50 phone plan.
 
Tethering cost

In the UK tethering is charged, £10 for 3gig at mo from O2, used to be £15. Also give you access to free wifi for some companies.

Unsure if pother countries are charging for tethering....

|To me this sounds the best option for the tablet (well for me anyway!). I always have my iPhone on me, I don't want another data plan, just let me use the tethering bolt on :)
 
my hopes are that it wont be flat after all, but instead perhaps consisting of dual 7 or 10 inch screens that close together like a book.

Now that I would love
 
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