Apple Tablet = iPhone OS or Mac OS X?

[cellocello]

What do you guys think the Tablet Nano's OS is going to be?

Since the Tablet Nano is going to feature a 3.5" inch screen (as opposed to the tablet's 10" screen), and only one physical button on the face of the unit, I assume it'll have to be a bit different.

 

[Small White Car]

I envision a system very similar to that established by Inkwell right now; key commands will have their own gestures.

Take a look at the handwriting recognition portion of Inkwell to see what I mean, and then you'll see how easily Menu Bar actions will translate to multitouch gestures.

The problem with this is that it would be optional for the user. 90% of the Mac users I know don't use Command-Tab. They don't use Command-H. They just use the mouse for everything.

Which means that with your plan, the majority of tablet users will still be touching GUI designed for a mouse. Apple knows this and they know people will review it as "hard to use" because the general public is clicking on the old interface elements and not using the fantastic (and invisible) inkwell gestures.

So, bam, poor reviews. Product sinks even though you and I are using the gestures and loving it.

Which brings us to:

What makes you think it will be tiny?

The thing is going to have a higher resolution than laptops. It will have to. So all the elements you're used to in Mac OS X are going to be smaller unless they're redesigned.

There's no question that an app with a tablet-specific GUI will be better. The question is, will Apple force developers or just ask them? I say they'll force them, but that part is certainly up for debate.

 

[colmaclean]

What do you guys think the Tablet Nano's OS is going to be?

Not forgetting Tablet Pro.

I wonder if Apple's OS upgrade solution for this vapourware will use the same accounting model as the Touch.

 

[Luke1robb]

I'm just saying that if you're gonna do a mockup, you're going to have make some decisions on what OS the Tablet will be running, chargers, etc., all of which are up in the air right now.

...

Two prototypes actually sounds fairly promising, giving a clear image of both ends of the spectrum. I say go for it.

Valid points, you sound interested. You want to help with some of the brainstorming, design ideas? PM me if so. Anyone else that is interested, PM me.

I'm still interested to see how comfortable it is to use sitting down. I can use my laptop hands-free, after all!

This is literally the reason why I want to make the "prototype"! Just cutting out a piece of paper with the dimensions and holding it in my hands gave me a good idea of what it might look/feel like. First observation, portrait mode is EXTREMELY comfortable to hold/navigate/type in, landscape... that's a little different.

People seem to be a little confused.

iPhone OS X and Mac OS X are the same except they each have unique features.

Sorry, I didn't clarify, I am well aware of this, but just forgot to mention it.

Add some kind of application switching feature using a simple gesture, very similar to 'command-tab' on a Mac.

Umm... 4-finger swipe sideways? Interestingly, this would work like a charm and has already been implemented in the Multi-touch trackpads.

These apps will be available on iTunes, just like iPhone apps, but they will also be available from the 'net, like Mac apps. So iTunes is a safe, easy, and premium way of getting apps, but you won't be locked to them like with the iPhone.

Just thinking about this, Tim Cook said during the Q3 Earnings conference call that they're working on some new layouts and things for the App Store... maybe they're working on a whole new App Store for said rumored Tablet. Thoughts?

 

[Small White Car]

Just thinking about this, Tim Cook said during the Q3 Earnings conference call that they're working on some new layouts and things for the App Store... maybe they're working on a whole new App Store for said rumored Tablet. Thoughts?

While I do think they would alter the app store for this device, I don't think that's what Cook was talking about.

I think they're trying to come up with other ranking methods for apps (like, most money made instead of most units sold) so that good iPhone apps are easier to find. I'm pretty sure he was just talking about that kind of stuff.

 

[cellocello]

You know ... I'm kind of picturing a Front Row meets iPhone type interface for this thing.

Full screen apps, simple gestures, simple multi-tasking and that sort of thing.

I think the idea is that this is going to be a 'home-command' type of device. Control your Apple TV, read a book on the couch, order a movie and watch it in bed, play music remotely, etc.

 

[G4R2]

I can't see Apple releasing a version of OS X with a micro-size UI. At the same time, I don't see them releasing a version of Inkwell with advanced commands that are too intricate for most users.

Unlike Microsoft, Apple designs its products with a particular use in mind. Apple may be gearing this device primarily as a media/internet tablet with little emphasis on work applications. Consequently, it may very well be that this device will not need a "Save As..." menu item or even a file menu at all. In this respect, productivity applications may resemble the iPhone model of persistent archiving. This is an objective Apple has been striving towards slowly with Spotlight, Time Machine, and Quick Look leading the way towards applications where traditional access to files through a file menu is irrelevant.

It may also be possible that Apple would include a more robust version of the Voice Control application that is found on the iPhone 3GS to supplement UI actions.

 

[Luke1robb]

i can't see apple wanting to go down the Microsoft route here. i certainly don't see it being branded as Tablet specific.

I agree with you in that Apple doesn't want to go into the "Tablet" area, with a whole new OS and UI designed just for that product. Sure, some might say, they did it with the iPhone and iPod touch, but why create yet another completely new OS, when its not necessary.

Where we disagree is with this comment:

[The "edit" and "file" buttons in Mac OS X] arent much smaller than the soft buttons on the iphone. like "edit" in SMS for example. i really don't see the size of those things being much of an issue given the resolution it will have to be due to the screen size.

I'm slightly confused, because on one hand, you're saying Apple won't go the "Tablet" route with a new OS and UI, but yet you're saying they can.

The problem I see is that if Apple wants to use the same system set up as Mac OS X, how exactly do you click versus scroll through a menu? Think about it, if I tap "File", then I have to tap "Save as". What if I want to scroll through the "File" menu, but then not click something? When I roll my finger down the words and let go, it will select whatever action I'm hanging over. This is FAR to Windows Tablet-like for Apple to ever do, IMHO.

Small White Car was also getting at this same problem:

I don't think Apple will want you to touch a tiny 'FILE' menu bar and then touch a tiny 'SAVE AS' for example. Or scroll by grabbing the itty bitty scroll bar on the right part of the window. And so on and so forth.

Being forced to use your finger to pretend its a mouse sounds like the exact opposite of an 'Apple experience.'. And if you just say 'it runs Mac apps' then that is exactly what you're going to get. Even if some apps re-design to be touch-screen friendly there will still be a ton that won't, so you'll spend a lot of your day poking at buttons designed for a 1-pixel mouse pointer.

My opinion is that the tablet should be a MacBook Air, just without the fold out screen and a little smaller. so essentially a laptop, with the standard magnetic charger, no cd drive, and a touchscreen.

Now, this I can agree with and this will be the base for one of the "prototypes".

 

[Luke1robb]

While I do think they would alter the app store for this device, I don't think that's what Cook was talking about.

I think they're trying to come up with other ranking methods for apps (like, most money made instead of most units sold) so that good iPhone apps are easier to find. I'm pretty sure he was just talking about that kind of stuff.

Sorry for the confusion. I know Cook was talking about these rankings, but they have also been known to hint at other products/services during conference calls. I'm just saying, Cook could be talking about both and he necessarily never lied or exagerated the truth or covered anything up.

You know ... I'm kind of picturing a Front Row meets iPhone type interface for this thing.

Full screen apps, simple gestures, simple multi-tasking and that sort of thing.

I think the idea is that this is going to be a 'home-command' type of device. Control your Apple TV, read a book on the couch, order a movie and watch it in bed, play music remotely, etc.

I'm beginning to think more and more that you're right.

Let's stop for a moment and think about Cook's twice-stated comments about netbooks...

Cook on April 22, 2009:

For us, it’s about doing great products. And when I look at what is being sold in the netbook space today, I see cramped keyboards, terrible software, junky hardware, very small screens, and just not a consumer experience, and not something that we would put the Mac brand on quite frankly. And so, it’s not a space as it exists today that we are interested in, nor do we believe that customers in the long term would be interested in.

And again on July 21, 2009:

I never want to discount anything in the future and never want to specifically answer a question on new products, as you probably know, Katy. The point I am making right now is that I think most customers that are buying a portable want a full featured notebook and we delivered those and delivered some incredible values in those and we feel like, and we know from our research the customers are very happy with those. I think some of the netbooks that are being delivered or many of those are -- have very -- are very slow. They have software technology that is old. They don’t have a robust computing experience. They lack horsepower. They have small displays and cramped keyboards -- you know, I could go on and on but I won't.

Now looking at Cook's quotes, one HUGE thing sticks out to me:

In both instances, Cook's comments/criticisms of netbooks are aimed at the devices attempting to be "portables" as Apple likes to call them. This would lead me to believe that Apple doesn't want to produce a device that can be considered a "portable" as this could potentially harm their perception as a "incredible value" products company.

Now, on the other hand, if they make a bigger iPod touch:

1) No one has ever made such a device that is a mobile device, but more "robust" to use Mr. Cook's words.
2) It won't be considered a "portable" as Apple(/everyone else?) considers "portables".

Furthermore, Cook said, that netbooks contain "software technology that is old".

Now obviously this is, in some part, a low blow at Windows, but looking a little more into it, one could see this comment as saying the traditional OS ("software") of folders, windows, etc. is "old", whereas iPhone OS is the "new" OS. In a way, he's kind of low blowing Mac OS X, but saying this is the "new" technology and OS of mobile devices moving forward.

Thoughts?

 

[tommyzib]

Who knows?

Most of this has to do with whether or not Apple thinks those of us in the media production business will be using the tablet for work. I own a Kindle and would buy a Tablet (depending on cost) just for the color reading experience. I could read a book, then watch a movie. Sure beats the Kindle.

But then, could I also (as I sit in the park), pull up Photoshop and work on a box design? Sounds good. Could I pop open Flash and work on a project I'm 2 weeks into? Cool. 30 minutes of a book, 30 minutes of movie, 1 hour of work. That's a nice morning.

Oh, but that requires a pretty beefy processor. And 4GB of RAM, please. And a larger than not hard drive. And all of that (if it's a Apple) is tough to squeeze into a $600-$1000 machine without programs crashing and people like me cursing Apple's name. So, is that what Apple wants? I dunno. I'm thinking they're going to put this out as a "not a laptop" device. We know right off the bat that this is NOT going to push heavy apps. But it will work great for web and most media apps. And for $600...you get what you pay for.

All this goes to the point of the OS. I think the hybrid suggestion is most likely. And maybe someone like Adobe is already working on a PS-Light app that runs on this OS and is JUST good enough for basic work. That's my hope.

 

[cellocello]

But then, could I also (as I sit in the park), pull up Photoshop and work on a box design? Sounds good. Could I pop open Flash and work on a project I'm 2 weeks into? Cool. 30 minutes of a book, 30 minutes of movie, 1 hour of work. That's a nice morning.

I really doubt this. I say expect a "Tablet Store" with tablet apps, books etc. Perhaps someone will develop a relativley robust photo editing app for the Tablet(?).

And, naturally, it'll have access to the normal iTunes Store (music, movies, etc.). Maybe books will be added to the iTunes Store for reading on a PC, iPhone or Tablet?

EDIT: Oh, and since this seems to be a "wifi-centric" device, maybe this is what Apple was saving 2-way video iChat for?

 

[doug in albq]

hybrid OS...

like that guy who created all the tablet mock-ups with an awesome OS that was different than both SL and iPhone OS.

this person had a thread going here at MR that I cannot find, but his screen shots and movies were on flicker and youtube.

His fake OS was awesome and very Apple/Mac...

EDIT: THIS IS THE OS THAT IT NEEDS, IT WAS CREATED BY ONE PERSON...!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEXe4UN3Y3U&feature=related

 

[Luke1robb]

Most of this has to do with whether or not Apple thinks those of us in the media production business will be using the tablet for work. I own a Kindle and would buy a Tablet (depending on cost) just for the color reading experience. I could read a book, then watch a movie. Sure beats the Kindle.

Imagine the possibilities...

But then, could I also (as I sit in the park), pull up Photoshop and work on a box design? Sounds good. Could I pop open Flash and work on a project I'm 2 weeks into? Cool. 30 minutes of a book, 30 minutes of movie, 1 hour of work. That's a nice morning.

Not realistic. Why would Apple make a product in this range for high-end users like that.

Oh, but that requires a pretty beefy processor. And 4GB of RAM, please. And a larger than not hard drive. And all of that (if it's a Apple) is tough to squeeze into a $600-$1000 machine...

Yet another point for why this thing won't be a "Mac", but rather an Apple product (e.g. iPod touch, iPhone).

 

[zacheryjensen]

With all these rumors about the Apple "Tablet" I have one big question.

Is this thing using iPhone OS or Mac OS X?

I'm trying to do a physical mock-up and am looking for input. My hope is to get the "prototype" built in the coming week or so.

If it has iPhone OS, I would imagine a tapered back like the iPod touch. Furthermore, if it is running iPhone OS, wouldn't it probably use the iPhone/iPod charger adapter and plug?

If it has Mac OS X, I would imagine it will be unibody construction and MBP-esque back. Furthermore, if it is running iPhone OS, wouldn't it probably use the iPhone/iPod charger adapter and plug?

Thoughts anyone?

You must be new here. There is no tablet. There is anywhere from 1-7 tablet rumors per year, has been for the 8 years I've been into Apple products.

Give up.

 

[colmaclean]

Oh, but that requires a pretty beefy processor. And 4GB of RAM, please. And a larger than not hard drive. And all of that (if it's a Apple) is tough to squeeze into a $600-$1000 machine without programs crashing and people like me cursing Apple's name.

Just wait for the iTablet's big brother - the iSlab.

 

[jayenh]

I'm slightly confused, because on one hand, you're saying Apple won't go the "Tablet" route with a new OS and UI, but yet you're saying they can.

The problem I see is that if Apple wants to use the same system set up as Mac OS X, how exactly do you click versus scroll through a menu? Think about it, if I tap "File", then I have to tap "Save as". What if I want to scroll through the "File" menu, but then not click something? When I roll my finger down the words and let go, it will select whatever action I'm hanging over. This is FAR to Windows Tablet-like for Apple to ever do, IMHO.

not really. i'm saying that the touchscreen capability is already there, as proven by the iphone and touch, therefore it doesn't need to be its own OS. if you buy a tablet with snow leopard and the next OS comes out i don't see there being a "tablet edition" of it. you will simple buy that new OS and it will install what it needs based on the hardware. it will know you are installing it on a tablet and it will install the OS with the tablet specific bits, which are pretty much a guarantee (touch screen drivers for a start).

i also don't see a separate apps store for this device, nor do i see apple wanting or needing developers to recreate their applications for it. the way i see it is similar to how windows implemented tablets, but with a lot more of the touchy feely gestures. like a gesture to close a window, one to minimize, one to bring up the touch keyboard, one to flick between apps like cmd+tab etc etc.

one thing that would be nice, and that i imagine they would include if they do go down the route i'm thinking, is that you can use both hands, almost like having 2 mice. so you could grab a file from one finder window or your desktop or something, then double tap your macintosh HD to drill down to the location you want with your other hand while still holding the file waiting to drop it in (assuming you have it sat on your knees or a desk or something so you have both hands free).

 

[spillproof]

I severely hope it is OS X as iPhone OS has a few shortfalls at being user friendly.

 

[Halamolo]

If it´s gonna be iPhone OS or something similar, it´s gonna be FAIL!

OS X is the only way to fly!

 

[colmaclean]

If it´s gonna be iPhone OS or something similar, it´s gonna be FAIL!

OS X is the only way to fly!

I smell FAIL then!

This beast is going to have to use iPhone Safari to make the most of its multi-touch and factor.

Has anyone speculated on the resolution of the screen yet? Apple are not known for maxing out the possible DPI...

MBP 17" - 1920 x 1200 (16:10 ratio)
MBP 15" - 1440 x 900 (16:10)
MBP 13" - 1280 x 800 (16:10)
iPhone - 480 x 320 (15:10)

Tablet 10" - 1024 x 640 (16:10) or 960 x 640 (15:10)?

 

[Luke1robb]

...the way i see it is similar to how windows implemented tablets, but with a lot more of the touchy feely gestures. like a gesture to close a window, one to minimize, one to bring up the touch keyboard, one to flick between apps like cmd+tab etc etc.

one thing that would be nice, and that i imagine they would include if they do go down the route i'm thinking, is that you can use both hands, almost like having 2 mice. so you could grab a file from one finder window or your desktop or something, then double tap your macintosh HD to drill down to the location you want with your other hand while still holding the file waiting to drop it in (assuming you have it sat on your knees or a desk or something so you have both hands free).

I think you've got great ideas here and most of us would LOVE this kind of feature/gesture set, but do you really think this is going to be put in a $600-900 device?

My apprehension comes from a couple things:

1. You said, "the way i see it is similar to how windows implemented tablets". Just the thought that it is somewhat similar to Windows and anything Microsoft is a red flag to me that it won't happen that way
2. Thinking about both the gestures Apple has implemented on the iPhone/iPod touch as well as those for the multi-touch trackpads, do you really think they'd create such complicated gestures for the average consumer? Again, at $600-900, this device is targeted at the average consumer, not the power user who would pick up those gestures easily.

If it´s gonna be iPhone OS or something similar, it´s gonna be FAIL!

OS X is the only way to fly!

I severely hope it is OS X as iPhone OS has a few shortfalls at being user friendly.

I can appreciate your discussion of the shortfalls of the iPhone OS for, what some consider, its "overly user-friendliness", though if this product is going to be more of an internet, media, and application device (for aforementioned reasoning), would it really make much sense to put Mac OS X on it? Maybe a hybrid, but I would imagine the hybrid will be heavily weighted towards iPhone OS.

...This beast is going to have to use iPhone Safari to make the most of its multi-touch and factor.

Really, if you think about it, it just makes so much sense for them to do this. iPhone Safari does everything needed for the majority of potential buyers.

I'm affraid to say this (for the lashing I'll probably receive), but the Apple Tablet some of us dream of (a professional graphic designer's dream), is probably not coming anytime soon. If you think about the niche market the MacBook Air caters to and the premium pricing one must pay to get it, it just doesn't make much sense for the pricing structure for them to release a product in the $600-900 range that might canabalize potential MBP buyers...*Try and not chew into me too much for that paragraph.*

 

[Carniphage]

With all these rumors about the Apple "Tablet" I have one big question.

Is this thing using iPhone OS or Mac OS X?

Neither.

It isn't going to be a Mac
A 9 or 10" screen would make for a poor Mac OS X experience. (See the Origami Project. )
Desktop apps assume mouse and keyboard and large screen. They will just suck on a 10" multi-touch touch screen.

Apple don't want to go down the netbook path.
Apple do not want it to cannibalise sales of full priced notebooks.
So this isn't a Mac.

It isn't going to be a iPhone OS device
ALL iPhone apps are built for a fixed-sized screen.
And this device does not have the same screen. And it almost certainly does not have the same type of processor.

So what is it?
I dunno... But. Here's my guesses:

1) It will get all its software from the App Store.
2) It's interface will be designed for its screen size and touchscreen.
3) The underlying system will be OS X and Cocoa.
4) It will have some feature we have not heard about yet.

C.

 

[colmaclean]

4) It will have some feature we have not heard about yet.

You've come to the right place to find out what!

 

[jayenh]

I think you've got great ideas here and most of us would LOVE this kind of feature/gesture set, but do you really think this is going to be put in a $600-900 device?

My apprehension comes from a couple things:

1. You said, "the way i see it is similar to how windows implemented tablets". Just the thought that it is somewhat similar to Windows and anything Microsoft is a red flag to me that it won't happen that way
2. Thinking about both the gestures Apple has implemented on the iPhone/iPod touch as well as those for the multi-touch trackpads, do you really think they'd create such complicated gestures for the average consumer? Again, at $600-900, this device is targeted at the average consumer, not the power user who would pick up those gestures easily.

the only similarity i was getting at is that it would be their full blown OS, which IMO is no red flag at all.

as for the gestures, i don't think this would be so bad for the users. you have expose, but rather than just moving your mouse to the corners of the screen you could slide 1, 2, 3, or 4 fingers to the different corners for different things. i cant really see them going beyond 2, but that straight away gives you 4 extra gestures. or you could slide a finger or thumb from each hand. like if you want the keyboard on screen, perhaps you could slide up from the bottom of the screen with 2 separated fingers, be it the same hand or 1 from each. there's a lot of ways they can implement gestures that will feel natural for the task they are trying to achieve. like closing a window, maybe a 2 finger swipe across the top-centre of the window or something, where it has the title.

you talk about $600-900 machines but have you seen how nice leopard can run on old hardware?

 

[colmaclean]

you talk about $600-900 machines but have you seen how nice leopard can run on old hardware?

Open a few apps and start Time Machine. Ouch!

 

[cellocello]

It isn't going to be a Mac
A 9 or 10" screen would make for a poor Mac OS X experience. (See the Origami Project. )
Desktop apps assume mouse and keyboard and large screen. They will just suck on a 10" multi-touch touch screen.

Apple don't want to go down the netbook path.
Apple do not want it to cannibalise sales of full priced notebooks.
So this isn't a Mac.

It isn't going to be a iPhone OS device
ALL iPhone apps are built for a fixed-sized screen.
And this device does not have the same screen. And it almost certainly does not have the same type of processor.

So what is it?
I dunno... But. Here's my guesses:

1) It will get all its software from the App Store.
2) It's interface will be designed for its screen size and touchscreen.
3) The underlying system will be OS X and Cocoa.
4) It will have some feature we have not heard about yet.

This is a person who knows how to reason.