Apple Takes 104% of All Smartphone Profits Following Galaxy Note 7 Recall

[Philotech]

If we are in the same industry and I make $100 but you lose $50 (or make a -$50 profit), the total profit across the entire industry (your "profit", and my profit) is $50, because your loss pulls the total profit for the industry backwards. So my percentage of the industry's profit is the profit I made divided by the industry profit times 100 (to convert from decimal to percent) or ($100/$50)*100=200%. Therefore I made 200% of the industry profit. In this case the iPhone is almost the ONLY phone that actually makes money. Samsungs profit share was 0.9% and HTC and LG lost money. That's what happens when you sell millions of devices at a loss.

Mathematically, this is obviously true, but at the same time such calculation has limited meaning. In particular, Apple making 104% of the industry's total profit wouldn't stop anyone else making another 208% of the total industry's profit, see example:
- Apple: 104bn
- TechCom: 208bn
- others: -212bn
= total: 100bn

Or imagine a case where the total profit was zero. In such case, all the analyst's Excels and computers would break and burn because of the division by zero.

 

[joeblow7777]

Pretty simple. Imagine Apple is making 104 billion in the smartphone market, another company 20 billion, and yet another company operating at a loss of 24 billion. Total profits in the smartphone market are 100 billion.

This basically means that there are Android manufacturers that are operating at a loss in order to get cheaper phones into the market

Apple makes 10 dollars.
Samsung looses 2 dollars

Total profit is now 8 dollars.

Apples share of total profit is now 10/8 = 125%.

Very good explanations of a statement that is initially quite counter intuitive.

 

[Koodauw]

some one may have made this argument already. But you cant capture 104% of the profits. A profit by definition is
a financial gain, especially the difference between the amount earned and the amount spent in buying, operating, or producing something. So if you operate at a loss, that's not a profit, and should not be included in profit calculations.

 

[talkybear]

The lack of real competition is what drives Apple to the wrong direction.

 

[deany]

The weird thing is that you are drawing the wrong conclusion. You continue to use your iPhone 6 because it was good value for the money. Your continued use of the iPhone 6 is not evidence that the 7 is a bad product, it is evidence that the 6 was a great product. And you are waiting, rationally, until June 2017 to buy a new iPhone because Apple delivered such great value in your current iPhone. Your story is a story of Apple's success, not failure.

Now if an Android phone came out that was so cheap and compelling that it made you ditch your iPhone 6, then we'd have a story about Apple's failure. The Google Pixel is out and is arguably the best Android ever made. But you haven't ditched your iPhone 6. If Google can't poach customers from folks using an iPhone 6, that is an issue.

Hi
The iPhone 10th anniversary has got to be special for me. I so hope it is.
I've been loyal for nine years and would really miss iOS and my apple watch.
The Pixel you mention and no doubt the Galaxy S8 in February 2017 give a compelling case for android.
But good things come to those that wait!

 

[Pike R. Alpha]

Well that is interesting. How did they do that?

"Global smartphone shipments hit 375 million in Q3 2016. Android captured a record 88 percent share, squeezing Apple."

http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...-Analytics-Android-Captures-Record-88-Percent

Oh yeah. Right. These bloody expensive iPhones

 

[blacktape242]

I am pretty sure this is how it was calculated

10^1.373=23.605
√ 23.605=4.858
4.858€ = 4.858$
sin(4.858) = -0.989
lg function Error() { [native code] } = NaN
acos(NaN) = NaN
104%

edit: @keysofanxiety

just saying....

 

[rwilliams]

The very best smartphones deserve all the profit.

This also does make Tim Cook's critics look pretty foolish.

Not necessarily. There are still things going on at Apple that are bothersome to people. The constant delays, shipping half-baked software, the years-long delays in updating desktop hardware. Kudos to him for iPhone sales, but he's hardly producing stellar results across the board.

 

[thekeyring]

Maths was never my strong point.

Could somebody explain this in simple terms? How it's calculated?

If you make a loss, as all companies apart from samsung and Apple do, you have a minus share of the profit. So Sony's profit share could be -1%.

 

[needfx]

just saying....


View attachment 670262

that means I am already worm food
ps, hardly even an average brain, if at all

 

[gnasher729]

The lack of real competition is what drives Apple to the wrong direction.

Competitors losing money doesn't mean there is no competition. Quite the opposite. If your competitors reduce their prices so far that they sell at a loss, then customers will like to buy at the loss making price, not your own profit making price.

 

[groovyd]

If we are in the same industry and I make $100 but you lose $50 (or make a -$50 profit), the total profit across the entire industry (your "profit", and my profit) is $50, because your loss pulls the total profit for the industry backwards. So my percentage of the industry's profit is the profit I made divided by the industry profit times 100 (to convert from decimal to percent) or ($100/$50)*100=200%. Therefore I made 200% of the industry profit. In this case the iPhone is almost the ONLY phone that actually makes money. Samsungs profit share was 0.9% and HTC and LG lost money. That's what happens when you sell millions of devices at a loss.

your one of those guys who is too smart for their own good, but i reckon you are correct on how it is calculated. the rest of the world recognizes that if a company lost $50 it made 0% of the profit and the other company then has made 100% of it if it profited at all.

in other words most would say the industry profited $100 in your example because your $50 loss is not considered a 'profit' but a 'loss' and I made 100% of that $100 'profit' and you incurred 100% of the $50 'loss'.

 

[Abazigal]

Competitors losing money doesn't mean there is no competition. Quite the opposite. If your competitors reduce their prices so far that they sell at a loss, then customers will like to buy at the loss making price, not your own profit making price.

He probably meant "meaningful" competition. I think it says a lot when you have to sell your product below cost just to clear inventory. In what bizarro world is it considered a viable business practice to ship at a loss just to achieve volume?

 

[needfx]

He probably meant "meaningful" competition. I think it says a lot when you have to sell your product below cost just to clear inventory. In what bizarro world is it considered a viable business practice to ship at a loss just to achieve volume?

brand recognition & market infiltration investments maybe

 

[Jakexb]

and this is why the MBPr is lackluster

You mean "awesome and a laptop I'm very much looking forward to getting the first week of December"?
[doublepost=1478271445][/doublepost]Why are there so many companies trying to sell phones to the extent that they're willing to lose money to do it?
How long can they keep that up before they have to give up?

 

[techwhiz]

Richest corporation getting richer. Hooray! All consumers everywhere should rejoice. Our fondest hopes are realized.

Maybe if we collaborate in this thread, we can figure out a way to grow that 104% to an even higher level? Why don't we all just send Apple a gift of $200 each for nothing? That should be a good start.

I'm a share holder.
Everyone should own an iPhone...... Makes me money.
Don't buy an iPhone, buy some stock.

 

[truthertech]

Meanwhile my brother just sold his iPhone 6 and used the money towards a Galaxy S7.

I wouldn't count that against him. Every family has someone who makes choices the rest of the family knows is not the best, but you still gotta love em.

 

[Duane Martin]

This is a business that is the epitome of the American dream, one of the very few success stories that doesn't have foreign ownership in some capacity.

Well put.

... this is an Apple fan site...

However, I would argue that MacRumors hasn't been an Apple fan sit for a very long time.

 

[macs4nw]

Richest corporation getting richer. Hooray! All consumers everywhere should rejoice. Our fondest hopes are realized.

Maybe if we collaborate in this thread, we can figure out a way to grow that 104% to an even higher level? Why don't we all just send Apple a gift of $200 each for nothing? That should be a good start.

After an ocean of negativity surrounding the aftermath of the last keynote, this news is actually somewhat refreshing.

Not to worry, no 'arrogant monster of mediocrity' is going to emerge following this merely 'blip on the radar screen of profits and progress'. Nothing ever stays the same, and the course Apple currently is navigating is worrisome enough for industry insiders. With other very aggressive players such as Huawei (to name one) vigorously pursuing the smartphone market, Apple may have their hands full keeping up with the industry momentum.

My hope is Tim will stick to meticulous engineering and immaculate designs, in their entire product line-up that is, rather than profit-driven compromises, as the two former philosophies have played a huge role in propelling the company to its current market position.

 

[Pulpdiction]

If you're calling out Apple for not keeping pace on technology you'd really have to call out the entire industry. There really isn't anyone doing much better overall (usually those types of debates end up being "which feature do you think is most important". E.g. Apple hasn't switched to top of the line LCDs yet, but most of their competitors are using far inferior SoCs, etc.

I'm not, and you may be right, but if no one is doing much then this explains the stagnation and the reduction in handset sales as people are not upgrading. The other factors for me, which I've seen amongst friends and family is that people are buying a 6 or 6s and giving their 5 or 5s or even 4 or 4s to other friends/family members for them to u/g their older phones or to switch to apple from another brand. So overall apple use is increasing but with the relative cost for little change in terms of the features where is the killer reason for me to upgrade. Actually with the 7 the effect has been exactly the opposite, with the removal of the headphone jack I won't be upgrading.

Also switching to a new LCD won't cut it for me, I need to see something useful, waterproofing is good, but a new form factor, new tech or app that only works with the new handset would give me a reason. Slightly better camera.. I'll live with what I've got, new colours.... so what, I'm still seeing nothing compelling.

 

[truthertech]

Not surprising due to Samsung's issues, though I hope they can keep improving with next years iPhone 8

That's a distortion. Look at previous years. Apple has been taking over 90% of the profits. Yes, the Note 7 added to it, but to suggest that this "news" is based primarily on the Note 7's problems is way off the mark.

 

[gnasher729]

He probably meant "meaningful" competition. I think it says a lot when you have to sell your product below cost just to clear inventory. In what bizarro world is it considered a viable business practice to ship at a loss just to achieve volume?

Doesn't mean it's a good business strategy, but companies selling at a loss will take away from your sales and profits. Say you have a nice restaurant. Next door some clueless dolt opens a restaurant, selling good food at loss making prices. That will hurt you for the six months until he goes bankrupt. Or even afterwards, people ask "why do you sell this dinner for $30, when <competitor> sold for $20?"

 

[truthertech]

Richest corporation getting richer. Hooray! All consumers everywhere should rejoice. Our fondest hopes are realized.

Maybe if we collaborate in this thread, we can figure out a way to grow that 104% to an even higher level? Why don't we all just send Apple a gift of $200 each for nothing? That should be a good start.

Good news that an American corporation, which provides hundreds of thousands of jobs in America and elsewhere is doing so well. Also, since Apple is the largest taxpayer in the United States and in the world, it's good that they will be supporting the USA and other countries even more. Also, since Apple is the most environmentally responsible consumer electronics company, and supports accessibility more than any other, it's great news that those type of efforts are good for business!

You're right--many reasons to celebrate!!!!!!!!

 

[Pulpdiction]

My hope is Tim will stick to meticulous engineering and immaculate designs, rather than profit-driven compromises, as the two former philosophies have played a huge role in propelling the company to its current market position.

Unfortunately in a world that is increasingly seeing accountants running large corporations it will always be about the money first and since Tim took over the whole ethos of Apple has shifted to delivering profit over product. The innovation has slowed, product updates in certain areas have stagnated for years and the focus needs to go back on the engineering and the product. Not saying they don;t produce some fantastic products, clearly they do, but in order to stay ahead you need to lead the way in technology not just profit.

Steve was all about the product first knowing the money would come if the product delivered its promise.

 

[Krizoitz]

This is why users should be mad at users, not Apple. We continue to pay a high premium (hence high profit) for products with user experience compromises. If consumers spoke with their wallets, Apple would backtrack on some of these design decisions that don't benefit the user. Case in point was the iPod Shuffle with no buttons.

Carriers are to blame as well. If it weren't for the free iPhone 7 trade-up offer from AT&T, I would have kept my iPhone 6 for another year, mainly because I didn't want a phone without a headphone jack. But I caved because I wanted 32GB, better camera, and better processor for no additional cost to me. Apple still got their full profit too I'd imagine. One more example of the "not good, but trying to get used to it" cycle that we rarely had with Apple products, but is now all too familiar for me (dongles, 12" Macbook keyboard, Apple TV 4 remote, etc.).

Users ARE speaking with their wallets, they are saying they prefer Apple's products and are willing to pay for them. You are free to decide otherwise, but just because Apple doesn't do what YOU or some other people on these forums do, doesn't mean they are wrong, it means they have different priorities than pleasing you. If you don't like it, spend your money elsewhere, thats your choice.