Apple Takes on Droid X With Latest Smartphone Antenna Video

[macsmurf]

Of course it isn't going to stop normal attenuation, but it IS going to lessen it because you're putting free space between the antenna and your hand with some other object that allows RF to pass more freely than human flesh.

If that explanation holds, you would expect little to no effect by putting a much thinner material between the hand and the antenna (such as tape).

However, the opposite is true.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3821/iphone-4-redux-analyzing-apples-ios-41-signal-fix/3

 

[sths-gr]

wow

when i first listened to steve jobs talk (earlier this year, about flash, and apple policies) i was really inspired, and I was completely sure i had turned into an Apple fan boy.

But after this, man how low can you go? I'm pissed off. The Apple iPhone4 was a little dodgy, but I dont care, Id still buy it because I accept it regardless. But the way Apple is going about it, trying SO HARD to show flaws in other competitors mobiles is low, i mean get over it. Apple is acting like a kid. So stupid.

Nope. Apple's acting like any multinational company..

 

[thenjman]

I am soooooo tired of all this.

Apple move on!!!! All this childish nonsense is really making me rethink my next purchase with Apple.

 

[Stratus Fear]

If that explanation holds, you would expect little to no effect by putting a much thinner material between the hand and the antenna (such as tape).

However, the opposite is true.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3821/iphone-4-redux-analyzing-apples-ios-41-signal-fix/3

I basically just said (in what you quoted) that more space between your hand and the antenna will lessen attenuation, and then the link you posted basically says the same thing. Did you misread my statement?

 

[mabaker]

Yup.

If they had cheated and made the phenomena up - there would have been lawsuits before the hall was empty.

And of course it adds context - the grip of death doesn't just affect the iphone.

Thank you. That is THE most sensible post here.

One would think the competitors would have sued by now. Why don’t they?

Oh yes. Delusion is Google’s fans best feat.

 

[reda]

Apple, stop whining!

 

[0098386]

Thank you. That is THE most sensible post here.

One would think the competitors would have sued by now. Why don’t they?

Oh yes. Delusion is Google’s fans best feat.

No, you believe it to be the most sensible when what you actually mean is that you agree with it.

I'm neutral on the subject, and seeing that I hold phones in my left hand I simply cannot buy an iPhone. I'd love to, but I can't. However other phones do not have the same problem as Apple.

Apple's antenna is exposed with only a tiny split between 2 antennas. Anything conductive that just touches the gap will cause a massive signal drop.
Other phones have to be squeezed (an actual death grip, unlike the iPhone 4's death tickle) to get a small signal drop. Other phones aren't affected in the slightest.

The problem is Apple is demonstrating that others have this problem. Except to pull it off you have to put a lot more effort in than just holding the phone, and even then the signal loss isn't that big.
Can you not see that?

 

[macsmurf]

I basically just said (in what you quoted) that more space between your hand and the antenna will lessen attenuation, and then the link you posted basically says the same thing. Did you misread my statement?

No. My point is, that if your guess is true, the distance between the hand and the antenna would be expected to have a huge impact. It doesn't. Radiowaves don't travel differently because the distance increases. Also, if bridging the antennas have nothing to do with it, you would expect a similar effect if holding just above or just below the black line. However, you don't get the effect that way.

If you accept the above, your hypothesis must be wrong.

 

[gammaknife]

I don't what to say abt apple after this video. I own many apple products incl all the iphones, But I have just moved to droid x. It certainly isn't as beautiful as iphone but it meets my requirements very well. I am a happy customer of droid x.

 

[muttonhead411]

Thank you. That is THE most sensible post here.

One would think the competitors would have sued by now. Why don’t they?

Oh yes. Delusion is Google’s fans best feat.

Maybe because suing Apple for attempting to divert the consumer's attention from the iPhone 4 to other phones would be stooping lower than Apple's current state. There was no defamation involved, so there is nothing to sue over. And lawsuits aren't always the best and most definitive way to prove who's right.

There are better things to sue for, why would any company sue apple for further damaging its own image when attempting to point fingers at non related third parties?

Instead, other manufacturers prefer to make a statement stating their stand and let the users decide for themselves. That includes having an app that shows you the actual signal strength of a phone in dBs when held in any and every way.

 

[mrochester]

No, you believe it to be the most sensible when what you actually mean is that you agree with it.

I'm neutral on the subject, and seeing that I hold phones in my left hand I simply cannot buy an iPhone. I'd love to, but I can't. However other phones do not have the same problem as Apple.

Apple's antenna is exposed with only a tiny split between 2 antennas. Anything conductive that just touches the gap will cause a massive signal drop.
Other phones have to be squeezed (an actual death grip, unlike the iPhone 4's death tickle) to get a small signal drop. Other phones aren't affected in the slightest.

The problem is Apple is demonstrating that others have this problem. Except to pull it off you have to put a lot more effort in than just holding the phone, and even then the signal loss isn't that big.
Can you not see that?

This is exactly right. Apple needs to show us videos of phones loosing considerable/all signal just by touching it in one spot with one finger. The 'death grip' isn't the problem. The 'death touch' is, and that is caused entirely by the location of the gap on the device. To fix this, they need to protect the gap or move it. Either way, it's a product redesign to some extent.

 

[mrochester]

Maybe because suing Apple for attempting to divert the consumer's attention from the iPhone 4 to other phones would be stooping lower than Apple's current state. There was no defamation involved, so there is nothing to sue over. And lawsuits aren't always the best and most definitive way to prove who's right.

There are better things to sue for, why would any company sue apple for further damaging its own image when attempting to point fingers at non related third parties?

Instead, other manufacturers prefer to make a statement stating their stand and let the users decide for themselves. That includes having an app that shows you the actual signal strength of a phone in dBs when held in any and every way.

What Apple showed in videos isn't false, hence you can't sue, but it is an attempt to divert attention away from the actual problem.

 

[bkspero]

You've got to be kidding

If it was faked - we would have heard of it by now.

Think the other phone manufacturers wouldn't refute it if they could??

There is no way that any Apple employee who would have been "selected" to participate in making a faked video would let even a whisper get out about its duplicity. Getting fired by the Boss would be the least of their worries. At the least they would be sued (maybe for violating their confidentiality agreement) until the legal fees left them penniless.

As for having the other phone manufacturers refute it, there is no need to do that. Customer after customer, after customer....after customer have refuted it for them (see my post above).

More to the point, if it were real, then Apple's army of fanboys would have drowned the web in confirming videos. And there are none that I could find with a pretty thorough search. I have to believe that a few will eventually surface as the fanboys get increasingly desperate and do their best Apple imitations in what appears to be not altogether truthful video. But nothing yet.

 

[KnightWRX]

As for having the other phone manufacturers refute it, there is no need to do that. Customer after customer, after customer....after customer have refuted it for them (see my post above).

More to the point, other manufacturers HAVE refuted it. Motorola and Nokia both posted comments on it and HTC made multiple tweets about it.

They've even made the front page on MacRumors. So to go ahead and say "no other manufacturer have refuted it" is as insulting to anyone's intelligence as what Apple is doing.

This is exactly right. Apple needs to show us videos of phones loosing considerable/all signal just by touching it in one spot with one finger. The 'death grip' isn't the problem. The 'death touch' is, and that is caused entirely by the location of the gap on the device. To fix this, they need to protect the gap or move it. Either way, it's a product redesign to some extent.

And they can't do that, at all. As Nokia stated, the industry switched to dual antenna setups long ago to lessen the impact of the problem Apple is showing, hence why Apple needs to use 7 fingers per hand to replicate "the issue" on other phones. Instead of trying to deflect this, they should be working hard at fixing their single point of failure. Maybe... I dunno, a dual antenna setup next time ?

Apple's problem is easy to pinpoint : Noobs. They've just come into the industry, they don't have the experience at making phone devices that others have and they just made a newbie mistake. Own up, wise up, and do better next time. Don't try to pass off your single finger failure as an "industry problem" when the industry fixed it years ago, before you even had a glimmer of an iPhone.

 

[muttonhead411]

What Apple showed in videos isn't false, hence you can't sue, but it is an attempt to divert attention away from the actual problem.

You are right, I am sorry, I should have phrased it better.

However, there is enough ground for a lawsuit IF the circumstances of those videos (testing environment, etc) were intentionally skewed and/or biased to obtain their desired results, thereby misleading consumers. Unfortunately, its impossible to prove such a case from just videos, and apple's ambiguity and generalisation played to their (apple's) advantage. Therefore, there is no lawsuit.

 

[KnightWRX]

You are right, I am sorry, I should have phrased it better.

However, there is enough ground for a lawsuit IF the circumstances of those videos (testing environment, etc) were intentionally skewed and/or biased to obtain their desired results, thereby misleading consumers. Unfortunately, its impossible to prove such a case from just videos, and apple's ambiguity and generalisation played to their (apple's) advantage. Therefore, there is no lawsuit.

Anyway, suing is just giving Apple more credibility than they deserve. Ignoring them is best for now, let them play their games. Outside Mac blogs, everyone pretty sees it for what it is, a poor attempt at deflection.

 

[apttap]

There is no way that any Apple employee who would have been "selected" to participate in making a faked video would let even a whisper get out about its duplicity. Getting fired by the Boss would be the least of their worries. At the least they would be sued (maybe for violating their confidentiality agreement) until the legal fees left them penniless.

As for having the other phone manufacturers refute it, there is no need to do that. Customer after customer, after customer....after customer have refuted it for them (see my post above).

More to the point, if it were real, then Apple's army of fanboys would have drowned the web in confirming videos. And there are none that I could find with a pretty thorough search. I have to believe that a few will eventually surface as the fanboys get increasingly desperate and do their best Apple imitations in what appears to be not altogether truthful video. But nothing yet.

It's illegal to slander. So, apple could easily get sued if this wasn't a real problem. No employee could sign a confidentially agreement to prevent them from reporting a conspiracy. If they were fired for reporting something illegal try could sue for amounts that greatly out weigh their lost salaries.

Also, your second paragraph is completely illogical. How many rabid apple fanboys own Android phones? How were you expecting them to accomplish this?

Go troll somewhere else.

 

[SactoGuy18]

I've said this TWICE earlier, but it seems nobody wants to confront this directly: if you hold the iPhone 4 without any cases installed in the "natural" grip with your the left hand where the palm of your hand touches the left side of the phone and the right edges touches the fingers, you run the risk substantial reception quality loss. Note that this problem does not occur when hold the iPhone 4 in your right hand with a "natural" grip.

It appears that when you hold a "naked" iPhone 4 in your left hand, the palm of your left hand "closes" that gap due to the electrical charge from your body and causes the antenna to not work correctly anymore. When you install Apple's bumper case or use a third-party case, you no longer run the risk of "closing" that gap, and as a result you run very little risk of substantial signal reception quality loss.

Apple needs to officially admit that there is an engineering issue with the iPhone 4 antenna design and hopefully fix it either by going to an anodized metal antenna or put a clear plastic covering over the antenna so we'll see it as standard on the white-back iPhone 4's and newer-production black-back iPhone 4's.

 

[Master Chief]

Of course it isn't going to stop normal attenuation, but it IS going to lessen it because you're putting free space between the antenna and your hand with some other object that allows RF to pass more freely than human flesh.

The only thing the [free] bumper does, basically, is to prevent antenna gap bridging. A case on the other hand also helps to reduce normal attenuation.

So how exactly again does this separate the end result into two issues for a non-engineer? It doesn't. You can lessen signal loss on other phones with a case as well.

Correct. With a case. Not with a bumper. You don't need one. That is a difference, isn't it?

...

Are you going to do anything with this other than play "holier than thou?" I don't think this merits much more response than what I've just given it. I don't need to justify myself to anyone, least of all someone hiding in anonymity on a forum.

First. I want to start off with an apology, because I got distracted; There was someone in this forum calling people 'retards' for not returning their iPhones. I thought that it was you. You however are, clearly, a different person. My mistake. Sorry.

Seriously, if this is how we play, then lets target those calling people fanboys, as well. They also aren't helping the issue. But they are, in fact, stating their opinion, as they are entitled to do.

Not my cup of soup. People should be free to express their opinions here, as long as it is done gracefully.

Anyway. The idea behind my somewhat cocky opening was to trigger a response from him. One that I was clearly expecting, and ready to counter since I am anything but a retard. Thank you very much.

I also find it hard to believe that some people here can get away with such low level posts. Contributing nothing but question marks.

 

[daveperso]

iPhone 4 doesn't work when the iphone3GS does

I haven't read all the comments on this thread. I just wanted to point out that for me at least, the antenna issue is very real and was definitely not an issue with my iPhone 3GS which I still have.

I am left-handed and NOW must be very careful how I hold my iPhone 4 or else my calls drop. This was NEVER an issue with my 3GS. My calls quite simply never dropped.

I like my iPhone 4 enough to not want to take it back and I have ordered a free Apple bumper. Nonetheless, this is a REAL Apple error in their design and no amount of comparing with other manufacturers can hide that. If at least they had had this sensitive part of the iPhone casing at the top then it wouldn't have caused an issue, but having that slit on the side just where you hold it to make a call is poor.

At least Nokia studied how users held their phone and built the antennae accordingly.

Having a bumper case to resolve this issue is very mediocre at best and I should not be surprised if this second-rate decision costs Apple dearly. I know personally of people who have chosen not to buy the iPhone 4 at least until this issue is resolved definitively. Maybe that will mean waiting for the iPhone 5 .

 

[bkspero]

Apple's current core competancy

Originally Posted by Journojulz
Yup.

If they had cheated and made the phenomena up - there would have been lawsuits before the hall was empty.

And of course it adds context - the grip of death doesn't just affect the iphone.



Thank you. That is THE most sensible post here.

One would think the competitors would have sued by now. Why don’t they?

Oh yes. Delusion is Google’s fans best feat.

Apple may not be able to design a good phone, but working the legal system seems to have become a core competency for our beloved company. The Droid X video is a great example of it. Note that there are no verbal comments. No disclosure of how the test is being done. No claim that it is at all representative of real world performance. Just a video for the fanboy legion to carry forward and attack other phones.

Even the legend along with the video is a work of legal art designed to say nothing while inferring much to the true believers.

"In our tests, the Motorola Droid X dropped from 3 bars to 0 bars when held in a way that attenuated the signal"

Note the preamble "In our tests....." no claim that the test was fair or reasonable. Just "In our test."

Next, see "...when held in a way that attenuated signal"....the holder could have had a lead liner on the palm of his hand and it still would not make that last phrase untrue. Because it was held in a way that attenuated signal. Took a lead liner, but it did attenuate signal.

That is Apple's not unsleazy way of insulating themselves against a lawsuit while still providing manure for the fanboys to spread.

Motorola knows that their phone doesn't have the problem of dropped calls from holding it normally, as the iPhone 4 does. They see the truth coming out everywhere on the web. And they know that with Apple's slick legal maneuvering, a lawsuit would be pointless (despite Apple's apparent duplicity). So no suit. Just a phone that actually makes and holds calls.

 

[gruntersdad]

Somehow Apple thinks that if they parade enough phones with the same problem as theirs, even though it was pronounced to be the latest technology at the reveal of phone 4, that it somehow becomes excusable.
If the antenna design is supposed to be better, then why was this miscue overlooked. Being equally at fault doesn't make you better.

 

[marksman]

I haven't read all the comments on this thread. I just wanted to point out that for me at least, the antenna issue is very real and was definitely not an issue with my iPhone 3GS which I still have.

I am left-handed and NOW must be very careful how I hold my iPhone 4 or else my calls drop. This was NEVER an issue with my 3GS. My calls quite simply never dropped.

I like my iPhone 4 enough to not want to take it back and I have ordered a free Apple bumper. Nonetheless, this is a REAL Apple error in their design and no amount of comparing with other manufacturers can hide that. If at least they had had this sensitive part of the iPhone casing at the top then it wouldn't have caused an issue, but having that slit on the side just where you hold it to make a call is poor.

At least Nokia studied how users held their phone and built the antennae accordingly.

Having a bumper case to resolve this issue is very mediocre at best and I should not be surprised if this second-rate decision costs Apple dearly. I know personally of people who have chosen not to buy the iPhone 4 at least until this issue is resolved definitively. Maybe that will mean waiting for the iPhone 5 .

If you are left handed, why do you hold your phone with your left hand?

 

[mrochester]

Somehow Apple thinks that if they parade enough phones with the same problem as theirs, even though it was pronounced to be the latest technology at the reveal of phone 4, that it somehow becomes excusable.
If the antenna design is supposed to be better, then why was this miscue overlooked. Being equally at fault doesn't make you better.

That's the thing, these phones don't have the same problem. The problem on the iPhone is that touching one spot - you don't even need to hold the device - causes the signal to drop considerably. With these other devices you actually have to hold them to make the same thing happen. Apple have yet to show us how they are fixing this permanently. Showing videos of other phones loosing signal is just a deflection from the actual issue.

 

[mrochester]

If you are left handed, why do you hold your phone with your left hand?

That's like asking why you hold a pen with your left hand when you're left handed. What the heck?!?!