Apple, Tesla Fighting Over Top Employees

[G4er?]

Often people used to compare computers and cars in terms of design philosophy, options, etc.
Many others said you can't compare the two since they are totally different.

I guess Tesla and Apple never read those posts.🙄

 

[Col4bin]

$250,000 signing bonuses and 60% salary increases….? Ummm, yes please. 😀

 

[Apple TarHeel]

Vaporware, brand, and realistic don't mean what you think they mean. At least in the context in which you used them.

Curious, why do you feel as you do? FWIW, brand has nothing to do with money, expertise, or power.

On topic: It's not surprising. Apple probably wants Tesla people working on battery tech and Tesla probably wants Apple's people experienced in UX. Business is business.

I work for Panasonic and we make Tesla's batteries. I doubt Apple wants to get into the battery business .. We make virtually all electric car batteries and have an extensive patent portfolio in this area .. It must be something else ...

 

[Mike MA]

Waiting for some sort of "insane mode" to come to my Mac soon 😀

 

[cfedu]

I'm sure saving money is NOT the priority for most Tesla buyers... maybe saving the planet, but mostly the thrill to drive it 😀

Not sure how it will save the planet! It must be fun to run out of power with no charging station around. I'm not saying that Tesla is not a great car, but it will never be mainstream if they don't sell to the general population.

 

[TallManNY]

I suspect the stock options from Tesla are viewed as having more room to run than the Apple stock options. That would seem to be the real incentive. Also when you join a smaller place you have a better chance of making your mark on the organization.

My guess though is that Apple's shares outperform the market and Tesla's share over the next five years. That is my bet and a bet that I make every day by being an Apple shareholder and not directly owning any Tesla shares.

And since Tesla is down 11% over the last six months, the latest round of Apple switchers have not done well turning in their Apple stock options for Tesla stock options.

 

[Ed1024]

Looking at the photo above, it redefines the old saying: “sticks to the road like glue”... 😉

 

[peterdevries]

Of course I know nothing about you...

It's not a 'scheme', businesses do need managers when they grow. And the one business is also different from the other. But the main course has to be set always by the jobs-type leader/visionair/entrepeneur, not by the top manager.

To use a few examples from the tech-business. Steve Jobs, Bill Gates en Mark Zuckerberg.

It's way harder to find recent companies who haven't died like Sony, IBM etc. And even Apple would be dead if Jobs hadn't returned.

PS: Zullen we deze discussie trouwens verder in het Nederlands voeren? 😛

Haha, I knew it.. I agree with you. What is needed is a visionary that also has the operational chops and oversight to manage a thriving and growing company. Not many can do that. Especially in the biotech sector there are a lot of scientists with great business ideas that have the potential to be successful in the market. Yet, the vast minority of these people do not have the faintest idea of how to run a company.

In the internet tech sector it is a bit different, because business models themselves are less defined. Facebook and Google are great examples. There you can have a great tech visionary that is supported by a great number of other managers to actually run the business.

There are many people on this forum advocating putting engineers in the driving seat because they have the ideas. What they fail to grasp is that the complexity of (especially listed) companies is so massive with all their stakeholders, that a great idea about a product and knowledge about how to produce it is simply not enough. These are still needed of course but a controlled process is necessary to bring the ideas from inception to reality (that is a process called innovation).

 

[Lycanthrope]

So am I the only one here that owns both a Tesla and Apple products?

Tesla are what Apple used to be - they're highly idealistic and driven by a vision to change the world, for the good, mostly by their enigmatic CEO, Elon Musk. Tesla has all the innovation that Apple lost since Job died.

Going from a conventional car to owning a Tesla is a very similar experience to what we had when Apple first came with the iPhone, literally every other mobile phone on the planet was history, overnight.

Tesla might be niche for the moment, but they're selling all they can produce and they have a long term plan to produce the Model 3 that will directly compete with BMW 3-series for cost, but of course be a much, much better car in every respect.

I'm ambivalent as to whether I'd like to see a collaboration, or even Apple buying Tesla. I believe Tesla will be bigger than Apple one day and I'd hate to see their goals diluted.

 

[Gizmotoy]

I've driven one many times and I think the screen is a gimmick and poor from an ergonomics perspective. It's incredibly dangerous to be looking down at the screen to just do something simple like open the sunroof.

Fortunately for you, then, you don't need to use the touchscreen for any of that. It's all available from the steering wheel, and you can configure the steering wheel buttons any way you like. Really spectacular.

Beyond that, if you decide you don't want to use the wheel they've made it easy to access the important controls on the touchscreen without looking at the screen at all. Everything is aligned on corners and edges. I can hit any button I need without looking.

The voice commands work spectacularly well (powered by Google Voice Search), but unfortunately don't cover much of the control functions. Hopefully they fix that soon. They add new features every month or so.

After having used one for a year I think the unsuitability of a touchscreen is severely overblown. I can see where someone might be turned off if they drive the car once and don't get the full experience configuring everything, but it's absolutely not an issue and makes it possible to add substantial new features after the sale. It's pretty great.

 

[TallManNY]

So am I the only one here that owns both a Tesla and Apple products?

Tesla are what Apple used to be - they're highly idealistic and driven by a vision to change the world, for the good, mostly by their enigmatic CEO, Elon Musk. Tesla has all the innovation that Apple lost since Job died.

Going from a conventional car to owning a Tesla is a very similar experience to what we had when Apple first came with the iPhone, literally every other mobile phone on the planet was history, overnight.

Tesla might be niche for the moment, but they're selling all they can produce and they have a long term plan to produce the Model 3 that will directly compete with BMW 3-series for cost, but of course be a much, much better car in every respect.

I'm ambivalent as to whether I'd like to see a collaboration, or even Apple buying Tesla. I believe Tesla will be bigger than Apple one day and I'd hate to see their goals diluted.

I see your point about the car buying experience of Tesla. For many people the cost of a Tesla is affordable. As long as it delivers a good car and a good experience, then it is worth the money.

But I doubt Tesla is going to be bigger than Apple. Is BMW and Mercedes, combined, bigger than Apple? Not even close. Heck, throw in Porche and Audi and you still aren't even close to Apple's market cap. I hope you aren't thinking that Apple is about to contract significantly.

The big problem for the luxury cars is going to be self driving cars. If those become a thing, and to be safe they all basically perform the same, the luxury market is going to take a beating. Let's assume we are still 10 years away from self driving cars. That is a good amount of room. But it isn't that far away.

 

[Soccertess]

Tesla appears to be losing money hand over fist at the moment. .... So, please do take that class! 🙂

I wouldn't be so fast to troll, please take a look at Tesla's financial statement to understand why they are losing money "hand over fist" as you claim. The amount they are investing in properties and equipment is for expanding operations. While they have been in an operating deficit, that deficit has been dramatically shrinking, with major investments that will hopefully pay off. Currently very little money is spent on Marketing because they are at manufacturing capacity. So the matter if they are well known is moot until there infrastructure is ready to kick some ass in the automotive industry.

Personally, I can't wait to get a Tesla and ditch the bmw.

 

[SirCheese]

Agreed. I know a Tesla when I see one, and there is quite a few in the Salt Lake valley.

Same and they have the only chargers on this coast here in my town AFAIK. Fort Myers, FL.

 

[hleewell]

The big problem for the luxury cars is going to be self driving cars. If those become a thing, and to be safe they all basically perform the same, the luxury market is going to take a beating. Let's assume we are still 10 years away from self driving cars. That is a good amount of room. But it isn't that far away.

Don't understand this statement. Assuming the luxury car market refers to Porsches & Ferraris, this is the one market where the analogue driving is key. People buy a Porsche or a Lambo because they love that engine roar and those mechanical gears grinding and all other magical stuff. If this autonomous driving mega-plot is successful & becomes widely accepted, a big if, the only market that may survive & persevere is this luxury market where I bet people would proudly let that twin exhaust scream out loud: "I am still here, muthafacka!!!!!!"

 

[k995]

LOL, perhaps you should take that class yourself. Tesla appears to be losing money hand over fist at the moment. They are not going to be able to do this forever. It's very likely that their strategy is to move out of the rarified niche they are in currently, into the broad luxury car market, or even into mass markets. The alternative is to stick to their niche and reduce costs to achieve profitability; it seems unlikely that's what Musk has in mind. Therefore, everything you say about their "target market" is wrong, and reflects a basic lack of knowledge about marketing, product, and corporate strategy. So, please do take that class! 🙂

Yeah you still don't seem to get it and you changed the subject.

Again tesla is known by a large part of the broad public and by its target customers something you said wasn't the case. No matter what more nonsense you spout, that is a simple fact I showed you.

 

[hleewell]

I am surprised how Elon Musk is relatively successful in doing what he sets out to do. Zero emission car design which may disrupt or confuse the market (Porsche is planning an all electric car), direct sale model which already angers the old system of dealers, a network of superchargers which may soon look like a dense cluster of McDonalds. This guy knows how to sell the brand. Question is: will mass consumers bite?

 

[DELLsFan]

That would be horrible in my opinion. No car maker should tie their fortunes to the choice of a cell phone. I also don't think most people making a 5 or 6 figure purchase wants that decision influenced by 3 figure devices. The infotainment system probably shouldn't even be a tertiary factor in that decision. Again, just an opinion. Others may differ.

Like mine.

I'm intrigued with the Tesla - but not with it's electric capabilities. In an (arguably) niche market, I am less likely to spend 5-6 figures on something that will be just as nice at considerably-less price - UNLESS there is something inside the car that would make it worth the investment.

A 17" screen is laughable - considering how much regulatory strangulation the government applies to automakers. Couple this with how much price gouging occurs by the automakers for their own proprietary, "premium" packages - the bling on the Tesla will need to really live up to the hype.

 

[winston1236]

I am surprised how Elon Musk is relatively successful in doing what he sets out to do. Zero emission car design which may disrupt or confuse the market (Porsche is planning an all electric car), direct sale model which already angers the old system of dealers, a network of superchargers which may soon look like a dense cluster of McDonalds. This guy knows how to sell the brand. Question is: will mass consumers bite?

Almost all carmakers are planning an electric car. Mercedes has an awesome one they have already built but isnt in production yet. The difference is Tesla is already there. While the older generations dislike change I think going forward the dealership model will be a thing of the past and obviously so will petrol vehicles.

 

[ElTorro]

Hahaha, please keep this coming. Complete surrealism.

Do you imagine someone not knowing what these emblems mean?

If you consider the concept is similar in form or size with this

Then, I'm sorry, because it's the opposite reality.

Funny you mention Mercedes. Did you know they are using Tesla's powertrain technology?

http://www.dailytech.com/Mercedes+A...+Range+Uses+Tesla+Powertrain/article34814.htm

 

[Gizmotoy]

I am surprised how Elon Musk is relatively successful in doing what he sets out to do. Zero emission car design which may disrupt or confuse the market (Porsche is planning an all electric car), direct sale model which already angers the old system of dealers, a network of superchargers which may soon look like a dense cluster of McDonalds. This guy knows how to sell the brand. Question is: will mass consumers bite?

If they can afford one, I'm pretty sure they will. Tesla is sprinting towards reducing costs. You see numerous "When the Model III is released, I'm buying a Tesla" posts around automotive forums. They have the momentum. If they hit their price point (which Musk reconfirmed this month) and show the prototype within the year, I'd say they have a pretty good chance of making it work.

So far, the product delivered has always been as promised. Their problem, so far, has been estimating schedule. If there's a risk, its that they're late to market. Based on their job postings out here, it would appear they're doing everything they can to prevent that.

 

[JAT]

The Marussia B2 and the Tesla model 3 are good'ol'vaporware 😀 At least, for now

The Model 3 or C was due at the earliest in late 2015. So, no, it is not vaporware until about a year from now. And if delays are reasonable and justified, it would still not be vapor.

 

[markcres]

No, Apple is a very good and very strong brand, maybe the best. Tesla is a niche+vaporware quite unknown brand.

Apple has infinitely more money, expertise and power. If Tesla thinks they are winning at something, is because Apple wants it that way, or simply doesn't care.

Let's be realistic.

Apple relies on China's slave labour to be so rich.

 

[TallManNY]

Don't understand this statement. Assuming the luxury car market refers to Porsches & Ferraris, this is the one market where the analogue driving is key. People buy a Porsche or a Lambo because they love that engine roar and those mechanical gears grinding and all other magical stuff. If this autonomous driving mega-plot is successful & becomes widely accepted, a big if, the only market that may survive & persevere is this luxury market where I bet people would proudly let that twin exhaust scream out loud: "I am still here, muthafacka!!!!!!"

I meant lower end than that. I agree the exotics are going to be fine. I'm talking about the BMW 3 or the Mercedes C-class and maybe the next level up (i.e., E-class). Once that car spends 90% of its time in "auto drive", you are going to question spending double the price of a comparable solid car that will drive the same. Right now I think the mid-luxury cars make sense because they are fun to drive and you get that fun pretty much the entire drive. But if it is the computer driving and having the fun, then I think a lot of the advantage is lost.

 

[Gizmotoy]

The Model 3 or C was due at the earliest in late 2015. So, no, it is not vaporware until about a year from now. And if delays are reasonable and justified, it would still not be vapor.

Actually, last June Tesla stated that they expect the Model III in 2017. Pretty hard to justify calling a product in development, two years before even the schedule release, vaporware. Are we redefining that term to mean literally anything that hasn't been released yet?

That said, Tesla has been overly-optimistic on every launch date so far. 2018 is likely a better estimate.

I meant lower end than that. I agree the exotics are going to be fine. I'm talking about the BMW 3 or the Mercedes C-class and maybe the next level up (i.e., E-class). Once that car spends 90% of its time in "auto drive", you are going to question spending double the price of a comparable solid car that will drive the same. Right now I think the mid-luxury cars make sense because they are fun to drive and you get that fun pretty much the entire drive. But if it is the computer driving and having the fun, then I think a lot of the advantage is lost.

Agreed, it's going to be a huge change. Average fleet horsepower is going to drop sharply (the computer doesn't care about 0-60 times), thus driving efficiency up. "Driver's cars" are going to become an increasingly-niche segment of the automotive world, I think. It's a shame, but I think that's the trade-off. And this from a huge proponent of "Driver's cars."

 

[IJ Reilly]

The Model 3 or C was due at the earliest in late 2015. So, no, it is not vaporware until about a year from now. And if delays are reasonable and justified, it would still not be vapor.

This is entirely the wrong way to think about the timetable for the Model 3. No doubt it will make an appearance, possibly by 2017, but by that time they will be going head-to-head with similarly-performing EVs likely at significantly lower prices. The danger here is that Tesla is losing its first-mover advantage.