Apple Testing M3 Max Chip With 16-Core CPU and 40-Core GPU

[nathansz]

Not until you're willing to give me a serious and honest statement about the relative value of the XPS's vs the Air.

Those are two different conversations to my mind.

Given they are os agnostic, if someone were to ask me for a laptop recommendation I’d suggest a mac. If they want a desktop I’d say pc (and if they get the right one they can still run macos, for now)

 

[theorist9]

Those are two different conversations to my mind.

Yes, they are different subjects. But in order to have a meaningful discussion, the requirements are the same for both: Both parties need to have an honest mindest. So I wasn't willing to embark on a second discussion until the poster was willing to demonstrate he could do that with the first. Having said that, you can see I edited my post to say I'm done 😉.

Given they are os agnostic, if someone were to ask me for a laptop recommendation I’d suggest a mac. If they want a desktop I’d say pc (and if they get the right one they can still run macos, for now)

Broadly speaking, I'd agree. But I'd first want to ask what was important to them. For instance, if they wanted a desktop and valued high responsiveness (i.e., SC performance), quiet operation and a small form factor, and don't want to take the trouble to get a specialty quiet PC, the Mini could be very attractive to them even if they don't care about the OS.

OTOH, if their main purpose was gaming, I'd of course recommend a PC regardless of whether they wanted a laptop or desktop. And I'd further recommend a PC desktop over a PC laptop if they don't need mobility, since performance/dollar is so much higher. [Many don't realize this because of NVIDIA's misleading naming convention, in which the desktop and laptop versions of a GPU have the same model no., even though the desktop version is typically twice as powerful.]

 

[nathansz]

Yes, they are different subjects. But in order to have a meaningful discussion, the requirements are the same for both: Both parties need to have an honest mindest. So I wasn't willing to embark on a second discussion until the poster was willing to demonstrate he could do that with the first. Having said that, you can see I edited my post to say I'm done 😉.


Broadly speaking, I'd agree. But I'd first want to ask what was important to them. For instance, if they wanted a desktop and valued high responsiveness (i.e., SC performance), quiet operation and a small form factor, and don't want to take the trouble to get a specialty quiet PC, the Mini could be very attractive to them even if they don't care about the OS.

OTOH, if their main purpose was gaming, I'd of course recommend a PC regardless of whether they wanted a laptop or desktop. And I'd further recommend a PC desktop over a PC laptop if they don't need mobility, since performance/dollar is so much higher. [Many don't realize this because of NVIDIA's misleading naming convention, in which the desktop and laptop versions of a GPU have the same model no., even though the desktop version is typically twice as powerful.]

I mostly agree there

I was certainly thinking raw performance, but also wouldn’t hesitate to recommend a mini if gaming or heavy workloads aren’t a consideration

 

[theorist9]

Windows had 72% marketshare in 2019. Dropped to 52% in May 2023.

Mac 18.72% in 2019, 33% in May 2023.

Pretty sure that's a nice dent.

Where are you getting those numbers from?

I can’t find numbers that look anything like that

And quite frankly they are wildly unbelievable

Those are most likely numbers for the US market. Yeah, people really should link their sources.
According to https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/united-states-of-america/#monthly-201304-202307 , in July 2023, the breakdown for the US was:

Windows 59%
MacOS 32%

[Their numbers for May 2023 are 53%/34%, which are nearly identical to tripsync's May numbers, indicating a consistency between the two sources.]

Plus look at the overall trend (i.e., filtering out the individual monthly ups and downs). Within a few years, those lines may cross. Windows in blue, Mac in magneta:

Note: "Desktop Operating System" doesn't means desktops, it means all personal computers using MacOS vs. all using Windows, and thus includes laptops.


Worldwide it's very different:

According to https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide, in July 2023, the breakdown was:
Windows 61%
MacOS 20%

This is actually a very impressive showing for MacOS since, economically, most of the world's population can't afford Macs. Of course, for that very reason, the worldwide numbers aren't meaningful as a gauge of consumer preference. They're only meaningful in a region in which people truly have the option of choosing either.

 

[enb141]

Nice try. Both of those fall significantly short of the Air in several categories. For instance, a Chromebook is much less expensive than both of those. By your silly logic, that means both the XPS's are overpriced.

I.e., here's what you're saying: "The Air is overpriced."

But here's what you actually mean: "If you don't care about any category in which the Air is better than the XPS's, then the Air is overpriced."

But you could equally well say: "If you don't care about any category in which the XPS's are better than a Chromebook, then the XPS's are overpriced."

Thus all you're doing is game-playing. You're not being serious.

See, if you'd actually been honest, and said what you really mean, which is I think is "The Mac's not a good value for gamers", I would have agreed with you, and we wouldn't be having an argument. But you weren't. You instead said the Mac's not a good value, period, which is of course both simplistic and wrong.

An HP Victus smokes Alienware in price, agreed.

But you asked me what computer from a respectable brand has better pricing (without getting a junk) to you anything besides apple is a junk, so the closest not "junk" computers are the ones that I mentioned.

Nope. Given your game-playing about this topic, would I want to get in a debate with you about another? I'm done.

Take a break, and whenever you want you can come back to discuss that topic.

 

[enb141]

Those are most likely numbers for the US market. Yeah, people really should link their sources.
According to https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/united-states-of-america/#monthly-201304-202307 , in July 2023, the breakdown for the US was:

Windows 59%
MacOS 32%

[Their numbers for May 2023 are 53%/34%, which are nearly identical to tripsync's May numbers, indicating a consistency between the two sources.]

Plus look at the overall trend (i.e., filtering out the individual monthly ups and downs). Within a few years, those lines may cross. Windows in blue, Mac in magneta:
View attachment 2243895
Note: "Desktop Operating System" doesn't means desktops, it means all personal computers using MacOS vs. all using Windows, and thus includes laptops.


Worldwide it's very different:

According to https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide, in July 2023, the breakdown was:
Windows 61%
MacOS 20%

This is actually a very impressive showing for MacOS since, economically, most of the world's population can't afford Macs. Of course, for that very reason, the worldwide numbers aren't meaningful as a gauge of consumer preference. They're only meaningful in a region in which people truly have the option of choosing either.

View attachment 2243889

I thought the same when I saw those stats, so I'm wondering how many of those are Hackintoshes.

 

[ArkSingularity]

I thought the same when I saw those stats, so I'm wondering how many of those are Hackintoshes.

I wonder how they're determining these stats. Macs are extremely popular on college campuses (I could believe it if a large subset of these users were from this demographic), but I'd be surprised if they represented 30% of the entire market share in the US.

That being said, it's not impossible I suppose. If Mac OS really does represent 32% of the market share in the US, that's excellent news for us.

 

[spcopsmac21]

I built a custom desktop too, my desktop smokes the Mac Pro, but unfortunately you can't build a laptop.

Actually, you can.

Introducing the Framework Desktop and newest Framework Laptop 13

Choose between our latest Framework Laptop 13 powered by Ryzen™ AI 300 Series processors or our brand new Framework Desktop with Ryzen™ AI Max Series processors.

frame.work

 

[spcopsmac21]

I thought the same when I saw those stats, so I'm wondering how many of those are Hackintoshes.

I turned a 16 core HP Z440 into a hackintosh and slapped a new power supply and an nvidia 3080ti in it, 128gb ddr4 ram.
It’s a beast. Benches like an intel Mac Pro at like a 10th the cost.

 

[enb141]

Actually, you can.

Introducing the Framework Desktop and newest Framework Laptop 13

Choose between our latest Framework Laptop 13 powered by Ryzen™ AI 300 Series processors or our brand new Framework Desktop with Ryzen™ AI Max Series processors.

frame.work

That's not necessarily means you can build one, that means you can customize one, build one means you can buy the motherboard from one manufacturer, display from another, keyboard from another and so on.

 

[enb141]

I turned a 16 core HP Z440 into a hackintosh and slapped a new power supply and an nvidia 3080ti in it, 128gb ddr4 ram.
It’s a beast. Benches like an intel Mac Pro at like a 10th the cost.

The problem is the future, in 5 years from now, intel osx won't receive any updates.

 

[theorist9]

I wonder how they're determining these stats. Macs are extremely popular on college campuses (I could believe it if a large subset of these users were from this demographic), but I'd be surprised if they represented 30% of the entire market share in the US.

That being said, it's not impossible I suppose. If Mac OS really does represent 32% of the market share in the US, that's excellent news for us.

They do it by web traffic, which apparently reveals the OS. So it's a proxy for the relative installed base sizes, rather than a direct measure. If Mac users spend more time on the internet than Windows users, or visa versa, that would bias the statistics. I'm sure there are other issues as well. Likely the trend in numbers is more reliable than the actual numbers themselves, which is why I noted that.

I can't imagine Hackintoshes could be more than a tiny percentage of this, given how challenging they are to set up and maintain. It's a highly specialized subset of users, which is why Apple doesn't much care about them. Indeed, the number of MacOS users on Bootcamp (which makes a Mac look like a PC) is probably significantly higher than the number of Hackintosh users (which makes a PC look like a Mac).

 

[ArkSingularity]

They do it by web traffic, which apparently reveals the OS. So it's a proxy for the relative installed base sizes, rather than a direct measure. If Mac users spend more time on the internet than Windows users, or visa versa, that would bias the statistics. I'm sure there are other issues as well.

I can't imagine Hackintoshes could be more than a tiny percentage of this, given how challenging they are to set up and maintain. It's a highly specialized subset of users, which is why Apple doesn't much care about them. Indeed, the number of MacOS users on Bootcamp (which makes a Mac look like a PC) is probably significantly higher than the number of Hackintosh users (which makes a PC look like a Mac).

Well said.

If it's genuinely by web traffic, it's probably not terribly far off. Honestly, this is exciting for Apple if these numbers are accurate. I've been hoping that Apple's market share would increase for a long time (I really don't like Microsoft's approach to privacy lately).

 

[GuruZac]

Uh a lot of them? That’s why an i9 and 4090 is winning in many areas. So they just get that instead and for $4,000 cheaper in some cases.

That’s like saying nobody needs the power of an i9.

When did I say nobody needs the power of the i9? But also, how many people actually need the i9 and 4090?? That’s my point. And to be honest, why is this even a discussion? Since when is Apple ever the affordable or best value option? I remain unconvinced that the high end of the MacPro level lineup is that substantial, thus it’s a low priority for them vs the lower end and non-MacPro professional markets.

 

[chucker23n1]

I thought the same when I saw those stats, so I'm wondering how many of those are Hackintoshes.

Twelve?

If Mac OS really does represent 32% of the market share in the US,

It doesn’t. It may, however, represent 32% of desktop web browsers among the install base.

 

[quarkysg]

It doesn’t. It may, however, represent 32% of desktop web browsers among the install base.

Looks like everyone is hung up on the absolute figure but is ignoring the trend. To me that is the more interesting stats to looks at.

 

[theorist9]

Looks like everyone is hung up on the absolute figure but is ignoring the trend. To me that is the more interesting stats to looks at.

*Cough*. Well not everyone...

Plus look at the overall trend (i.e., filtering out the individual monthly ups and downs). Within a few years, those lines may cross.

Likely the trend in numbers is more reliable than the actual numbers themselves, which is why I noted that.

 

[theorist9]

Well said.

If it's genuinely by web traffic, it's probably not terribly far off. Honestly, this is exciting for Apple if these numbers are accurate. I've been hoping that Apple's market share would increase for a long time (I really don't like Microsoft's approach to privacy lately).

Me too. A bigger market share means fewer apps will be Windows-only, and helps the general health and longevity of the MacOS ecosystem. It also helps maintains the importance of the Mac division within Apple.

At the same time, I hope Windows maintains a sizeable market share as well, since competition from Windows pushes Apple to keep putting out a better product.

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

You sort of can. it won’t be a Mac but you can run macos.

Yeah true. But only sort of.

I looked into possibly building a Hackintosh, but at the time, there seemed to be no perfect solution where everything worked properly. So I gave up.

Has that changed now?

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

I hope the EU eats them alive when these machines start filling up in landfills. Consumers will catch on fast when their $3500 laptop dies within a year of its apple care expiring.

Well, I actually hope they don't die that easily.

My 2015 Retina MBP is still working just fine, after 8 years of almost daily use, and it has soldered in RAM. Sure, it's not integrated onto the main chip, but then again, every CPU under the sun has had multiple levels of integrated cache RAM for the last how many decades?

I'd be more than happy if my 16" M1P MBP is still kicking along in 8 years. Even if I get a good 4 years out of it before it starts showing signs of degradation, I'll be happy. I normally upgrade around then anyway, I only held off with my 2015 rMBP because every 2016+ laptop was a dog until the M1 came along.

 

[enb141]

Twelve?

Between 11 and 13

 

[enb141]

Yeah true. But only sort of.

I looked into possibly building a Hackintosh, but at the time, there seemed to be no perfect solution where everything worked properly. So I gave up.

Has that changed now?

Pretty much now intel osx is dead so why waste your time on something that is dead.

 

[nathansz]

Yeah true. But only sort of.

I looked into possibly building a Hackintosh, but at the time, there seemed to be no perfect solution where everything worked properly. So I gave up.

Has that changed now?

Yes you can build a pc that runs macos where everything works properly

It’s not even that complicated or difficult if you use the most compatible hardware

 

[nathansz]

Pretty much now intel osx is dead so why waste your time on something that is dead.

It ain’t dead yet

Sonoma runs great on intel

 

[chucker23n1]

Yeah true. But only sort of.

I looked into possibly building a Hackintosh, but at the time, there seemed to be no perfect solution where everything worked properly. So I gave up.

Has that changed now?

I mean… starting a Hackintosh project now seems silly to me. We're three years into ARM Macs. Two or three years from now, macOS flat-out won't run on Intel.

You can do it as a hobbyist project, but it won't be future-proof.