Apple Threatens to Pull FaceTime and iMessage in the UK Over Proposed Surveillance Law Changes

[Krizoitz]

1. "far larger" refers to Android market share in US, not Android versus iOS.
2. The article, and the comment, is about Apple pulling iMessage and FaceTime. Not about the merits of the law. WA has not threatened to pull.

Smartphone market share June 2023

US:
iOS - 57%
Android - 42%

UK:
iOS - 51%
Android - 49%

So no, not “far larger” at all.

Mobile Operating System Market Share United States Of America | Statcounter Global Stats

This graph shows the market share of mobile operating systems in United States Of America based on over 5 billion monthly page views.

gs.statcounter.com

Mobile Operating System Market Share United Kingdom | Statcounter Global Stats

This graph shows the market share of mobile operating systems in United Kingdom based on over 5 billion monthly page views.

gs.statcounter.com

And yes the article and discussion absolutely are about the merits of the law.

Two strikes for you, one more and your out.

 

[4odomi]

All of which supports the notion that iMessage and FaceTim would not be missed too much in UK or Europe. As you write, about 50% already don't have them now, and those that do also use WhatsApp already, in some cases even as the dominant protocol.
As a result, Apple probably won't lose sales if they dropped these two services, there will be grumbling, but not more.

You do realise WhatsApp have taken a similar stance?

 

[Pezimak]

The current Conservative government in the UK is the most self-serving and corrupt in history.

Nah, trust me they are ALL as bad s each other, Thatcher was good as she did what she said she would, she did some bad things but also good things, but naturally greed and selfishness of man has destroyed her good things too.
The current Conservative party in power is the most left wing party the UK has ever had! But they’ll be gone next year I expect.
But I have to laugh at these amendments to the bill. Normally I’d be thinking Apple is over reacting as usual, but in this case the changes proposed are laughable.

 

[Krizoitz]

Yep.... Binary choices being the only way the world works. 🙄

When the person I am replying to says government is bad the alternative is, in fact, a binary choice.

 

[Krizoitz]

iOS market share doesn’t matter. You can install WhatsApp on an iPhone and what’s what people use.

Yes, WhatsApp would also be affected but what people are saying is that the threat to pull iMessage isn’t that impactful because only a minority of people in the UK use it regularly.

iOS market share DOES, in fact matter when the comment I’m replying to is talking about market share. Read first next time.

 

[Pezimak]

Sadly if labour get in , sir keir starmer QC and millionaire isn’t exactly going to change much

You can vote blue or red, makes no difference they all have the same policies, and both parties take instructions from the WEF. Want to know what direction Europe is heading in? Just read the WEF articles and website, seriously most of the things that have come in are on there, plus future ones like getting rid of cash.

 

[4odomi]

But you could switch to WhatsApp with zero effort, as you do already use it, even if not as your main messenger.

WhatsApp has threatened to pull out as well over this legislation, apart from that, iMessage & Face Time is much better than WhatsApp from a user perspective, that's why most Apple users only use WhatsApp with Friends that have Androids.
I realise, you probably haven't used either service, so you're a little in the dark, as to it's advantages 😏

 

[4odomi]

Smartphone market share June 2023

US:
iOS - 57%
Android - 42%

UK:
iOS - 51%
Android - 49%

So no, not “far larger” at all.

Mobile Operating System Market Share United States Of America | Statcounter Global Stats

This graph shows the market share of mobile operating systems in United States Of America based on over 5 billion monthly page views.

gs.statcounter.com

Mobile Operating System Market Share United Kingdom | Statcounter Global Stats

This graph shows the market share of mobile operating systems in United Kingdom based on over 5 billion monthly page views.

gs.statcounter.com

And yes the article and discussion absolutely are about the merits of the law.

Two strikes for you, one more and your out.

I'm on your side, however 57% of 350 mil is far bigger than 51% of 65 mil 😊

 

[4odomi]

just because people have iPhones doesn't mean they use iMessage... WhatsApp is by far the most common service.

Because Zuckerberg told you? 🤣

 

[4odomi]

I just find it funny that people don't understand that a government is limited in its power and when it starts barking orders without any input from whom they are ordering around, they are no longer a democracy but an oligarchic tyranny.

Just because the people are stupid enough to vote for oligarchs doesn't make it a democracy.

A large majority of voters have always been not to bright or well informed, however democracy is still the best way to govern

 

[4odomi]

The Brits never use any law in the spirit of what it was originally defined. They recently introduced a law to prevent people from gathering for any type of protest. Some lady was recently murdered and family & friends held a vigil. The Brit police went in with batons and tasers to break up a peaceful gathering for remembering a loved one. They're no different from when they used to brutalise conquered lands.

It was a law introduced during the Covid lockdown, where no more than 6 people could gather and the police did not go in with batons, they simply broke up the gathering in a park, which was breaking the law at the time

 

[4odomi]

I see we have found the Tory.

Nope, just someone stating facts, which you seem to be oblivious to, either by choice or another reason 😊

 

[User 6502]

the UK government sounds atrocious

It is.

 

[User 6502]

Apple will cave eventually. Uk is a huge market they cannot lose.

U.K. a huge market? I’m a British citizen but the U.K. is not a huge market. Since it’s left the eu it’s just a declining nation with vanishing influence. Apple would hardly notice it if it left the country altogether, and in this case we’re just talking about removing FaceTime and iMessage, that are not much used in the U.K. anyway. Most people use WhatsApp and or telegram anyway.

 

[BellSystem]

Lol so they should just pay millions in fines and/or risk jail time so that posters on this forum will consider them "brave?"

So you think just pulling the product is brave then lol ok

 

[User 6502]

any stats to back up that wild claim?

I don’t think there is any stats, or at least I’m not aware of it. But it definitely matches my anectodical experience. I have hundreds contacts, but only a single one uses imessage. And none use FaceTime. I’m sure other people will have different experiences but in general I’d be surprised if more than 10% of the population uses imessage/facetime, and not shocked if it’s less than 2%.

 

[4odomi]

True but the UK is the worst, you can get arrested for using the wrong pronoun there.

You must have us mixed up with US....IY'S UK 🤣

 

[TVreporter]

Well sorry UK, guess you’re going to lose those two new “British” voices for Siri in iOS 17.

 

[wigby]

so no stats then, thanks for confirming it was a wild and inaccurate claim

I assumed that anyone making such statements was being sarcastic. We do know that iPhone is about as popular as Android in GB. And with iMessage and FaceTime stickiness being what it is, that ensures those Apple iOS services are hugely popular.

 

[wigby]

didn't apple claim they would never allow side-loading, yet the EU brought in a law and now we're getting side-loading in the EU by all accounts in either iOS17 or next release?

Side-loading doesn't blatantly defy Apple's stance on privacy. For instance, Apple has always allowed side-loading in MacOS. Turning off end-to-end encryption would lose millions of customers for Apple overnight. They are better off just turning off services completely as a form of protest until this thing is settled some other way.

 

[rp100]

At what point is enough enough? How much must the government steal before there is an outrage?

Yes, you do have a right to a private conversation with the person of your choosing. No, the government does not have the right to eavesdrop unless we, the people, allow them. Anyone demanding wholesale subservience to constant government surveillance under the guise of protection, safety, or security is an evil liar. There is no such thing as an honest politician, and the more they claim to offer, the more it’s going to cost you in resources, morale, and personal agency. Do you like the state of the world the last 3 years? The last 30 years? Do you like being cast as an untrustworthy leper who should’t be allowed to have authority over his or her own life? The highest levels of government hate you, have always hated you, and want nothing more than to control you for their own amusement and power.

Read between the lines: they already have the resources to put every pedophile in jail, but intentionally choose not to prosecute them. Why? So they can demand additional surveillance. They want everyone to be afraid of sending messages (to family and friends) which do not reinforce the prescribed narrative. The safety that was promised is flipped on its head - you are put in a state of insecurity, never quite sure if your speech is acceptable. Control the speech, control the thought. Control the thought, control the people.

The solution to government-caused problems is not more government but less. Let the chips fall where they may. Or don’t.

 

[wigby]

U.K. a huge market? I’m a British citizen but the U.K. is not a huge market. Since it’s left the eu it’s just a declining nation with vanishing influence. Apple would hardly notice it if it left the country altogether, and in this case we’re just talking about removing FaceTime and iMessage, that are not much used in the U.K. anyway. Most people use WhatsApp and or telegram anyway.

While Apple itself is actually more valuable than the total GDP of Great Britain, they do represent a lot of business for Apple. I don't see a breakdown by country but the EU brings in much more revenue than Greater China and Apple has gone out of its way (some would say much too far) to keep China happy. So it's not out of the question that Apple see the UK as a very valuable market.

 

[svish]

Hopefully the law does not change.

 

[gavroche]

those stats are meaningless without knowing the sample group.
i could create any stat to support any argument

Why are you so smug? someone gave their opinion, and you feel entitled to demand they prove their opinion. How about you 'prove' the contrary instead. Or just give your opinion, and go about your day.

 

[lartola]

I'm on your side, however 57% of 350 mil is far bigger than 51% of 65 mil 😊

But you did say Android’s share of the market in UK was larger than the iOS share. The numbers shared here proved you wrong, 51% iOS and 49% Android in the UK.