Apple Threatens to Pull FaceTime and iMessage in the UK Over Proposed Surveillance Law Changes

[Victor Mortimer]

Yes, I'm aware.
People probably lost interest in freedom, most certantly to trade it in for the promise of security.
But playing the security game is a dangerous gamble...
One could argue that China is very safe for the average citizen, but would you really like to live in a dystopia like that just for the benefit of fewer muggings or shootings?
Not sure...

One could argue that, I suppose, but one would be very, very wrong.

China has FAR more crime than most of the west. They just cover it up, because it would make China look bad if the real numbers came out.

The dystopia doesn't give you safety, just the illusion that things are safe.

 

[gleepskip]

The UK is a police state.

I challenge you to find a first world country that isn't.

 

[Apple Fan 2008]

I challenge you to find a first world country that isn't.

Unfortunately that’s very true, we don’t need a Nanny state to baby us. When people become reliant on the government, they become lazy and dumb. Which makes them perfect for manipulation.

 

[groove-agent]

What a bunch of hard-asses. I feel this comitty is just full of old men who don’t really understand the technology. Everyone should just pull the technology out of the UK and let them go back to tin cans with strings.

More seriously, I appreciate them sticking up for people’s privacy, but I think they’re a little too uptight about it. For example, the whole “accept cookies” thing from the EU is annoying to have to accept cookies on each website we go to. Thanks for that.

 

[Bobby Smallwood]

I challenge you to find a first world country that isn't.

True but the UK is the worst, you can get arrested for using the wrong pronoun there.

 

[yellowbunny]

It is.

Seconded. Unfortunately we have a pretty terrible alternative who will probably decide to keep this nonsense too…

 

[darkcompass]

If this legislation was already in place, it would have helped Boris. He wouldnt need to hand over his whatapp messages, the secret service would already have them.

 

[Corefile]

No, they didn’t. The law prevents unlawful means of protesting; that is where protesters endanger the lives of themselves or others. I.e Marching down a main road and holding up traffic.

That’s not even worth replying to.

Not only did the police smash up a peaceful vigil but there are even folk who support condone such actions under false claims. The world is full of Tory shills.

 

[Sevendaymelee]

Apple will cave eventually. Uk is a huge market they cannot lose.

I think you might be forgetting something: the public wants their iPhones. If a power-play takes place, who do you think is likely to cave? The politicians that can be removed by the public, the same public that loves their Appel devices and doesn't want to lose their features, or Apple?

 

[MacGizmo]

...And, even though you can show data that indicates that’s very likely not the case, there’s nothing that would be able to move them from their strongly held belief.

I'm sure someone can share a chart that proves you are absolutely wrong, and people change their beliefs constantly. 🤪

 

[LV426]

95%?

i know the Mirror and Guardian are on the labour side.
i'm not sure if the others would make 95%

View attachment 2235031

View attachment 2235033

there are also regional variations.
Daily Record - Labour
The Scottish Sun - usually sides with the one that is more popular
The Herald - Labour

The Guardian is a liberal newspaper.
The Morning Star doesn't have any readership to speak of.

 

[LV426]

I’m American, never been to the UK, and do not know British law. However, this seems like a dangerous precedent and power grab if allowed to pass. Say “no,” my British friends!

It's worse than that. I think it was around 2016 when the UK government brought a "Snooper's Charter" into law. For a number of years now the UK government are permitted by law to insist that device manufacturers implement any technical means to permit government snooping on user data. But it gets worse. Affected companies are not permitted to disclose that any such demand has been made of them. So, we've been flying blind for a few years now. UK Gov could have exfiltrated arbitrary amounts of private data with Apple's assistance, and Apple would not be permitted to let us know.

 

[McWetty]

what's that? being annoying, strike at a moments notice, and generally burn the place down?

Stick up for yourselves and don’t let your politicians steam roll you. Protest and make yourselves be heard.

 

[LV426]

True but the UK is the worst, you can get arrested for using the wrong pronoun there.

I responded with a laugh emoji. But it's true!

 

[d5aqoëp]

The biggest threat to the British people is the establishment itself

But….. The sun never sets over the British Empire, innit?

 

[phenste]

what an absolute mess of an idea (on Parliament’s part, not Apple’s). thankful that this is actively being boycotted by two companies (Apple/Meta) responsible for massive amounts of cash flow within the country (along with Signal, though iirc that is wonderful [and vital, for people working with high-risk information] piece of freeware). that is a genuine threat in a way that should worry lawmakers about passing this.

 

[sflagel]

I’m sure somewhere out there, there’s a person that thinks most everyone MUST be a member of a country club because everyone they know in their extended circle is in a member of country club. And, even though you can show data that indicates that’s very likely not the case, there’s nothing that would be able to move them from their strongly held belief.

Everyone is a member of a country club, the most sold car is a Range Rover, where do they summer, and what do you mean you don't pay for school?
Except, I am holding a light up for Android users: not everyone has an iPhone; and since there are so many that don't have one, almost everyone that has an iPhone also has WhatsApp installed.

 

[robbietop]

You clearly don’t have much experience of U.K. politics. That’s exactly how Westminster works.

Same across the pond.

 

[coolfactor]

Two words... "British Colony"

Long before the US (and Canada) existed, the British were invading countries and claiming them as their own. Now the US feels that they are the kingsh&t of the world, but Britain never lost that mentality, and I think this is another way for them to maintain that illusionary power over the people. In the end, it's damaging but the world keeps turning.

 

[Will Co]

Speaking as a UK Apple user, well done Apple. This is what public consultations are for. Hopefully with Apple and virtually every other tech provider of significance making similar threats or promises, the Government will back down. This will bite them at the next election.

 

[johnalan]

Dear sirs, with regards to your attempt to remove freedom of privacy in the name of making your job easier (investigations) you can go:

Spoiler: Naughty bits

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yourself

Exactly what are they gonna do ban math?

How will the internet work?

It’s also trivial to role your own e2e messaging over insecure channels using libsodium or equiv. JFC it’s such a backwards view.

Let’s ban vehicles too, I mean sometimes terrorists drive them into crowds?

 

[19callum93]

iMessage and FaceTime aren’t that popular in the UK, it’s not much of a factor in opting to buy Apple devices.

I only use iMessage! Can’t stand what’s app. Looks and feels Android cheap 🤮

 

[0339327]

No it isn't but if Apple complied with China's surveillance laws so they could sell their products in China, Apple can do the same for other countries as well.

Can you trust Apple's iMessage encryption with your life? - iSecurityGuru

According to Apple, iMessage is secure and private. But why do China, Iran and Russia allow iMessage while they ban the others?

isecurityguru.com

"I don’t like what I see regarding iMessage security in Apple Platform Security white paper. It seems to me that Apple’s iMessage encryption is strong enough to prevent government mass surveillance. But it is weak enough for a major government to crack a specific individual’s messages. That explains why iMessage is allowed in countries like China, Iran and Russia while the rest (e.g. WhatsApp, Telegram) are banned."

WOW - I'm surprised.

 

[Radeon85]

This government needs abolishing ASAP, they've destroyed the UK and are still doing it. Hopefully every other company backs Apple on this and threatens to pull out completely.

 

[TopToffee]

Words cannot express how much I loathe this government.
All governments have their problems, no doubt. This one is reaching almost cartoonish levels of awfulness.