If Unreal is actually at risk, Epic has to cave right? I find all of this very fascinating and while I don't necessarily think Apple is fully in the right, I have to applaud what feels like a checkmate move here. Epic too deserves applause for a bold and preemptive sneak attack. But with that they agree to the terms of war and any potential retaliation.. if they didn't plan for this scenario (it kinda feels like they didn't), they're all the more deserving.
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Apple Threatens to Terminate Epic Games' Developer Accounts on August 28
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Wow, that’s some truly horrible PR considering all the anti-trust investigations. Apple’s App Store monopoly is living on borrowed time, it’s just a matter of when not if.
Epic doesn't have any of their titles on Steam. For obvious reasons; Epic Games tried to force Steam to lower their 70/30% cuts some years ago too. Steam refused, and so, no Epic Games software is available on Steam.
This ain't the first time Epic Games has done this. It happened in the PC market some years ago with the launch of the Epic Games store application, and the conflict Epic and Steam had about revenue share (Steam charges 30% too).
So anyone who agrees with Steam's pricing model but disagrees with Apple's pricing model are really a hypocrite.
If I am writing a game for PS using the Unreal Engine I pay 5% royalty to EPIC and 30% royalty to Sony, then I may have a deal with content creators etc, that is just a cost of making business if I want to be in that marketplace, I suppose it is quite cheap to be in the HUAWEI store these days...
If you design a one hit wonder on the Apple ecosystem 70% of a billion is still 700M;-)
If you design a one hit wonder on the Apple ecosystem 70% of a billion is still 700M;-)
Agreed! Epic Games you drag Apple’s name in the mud after agreeing to their terms all you get is dirty!
Epic Games, here’s mud in your eye.
I guess this means Apple has complete confidence in the smaller and other game developers on their platforms and potentially internally they know they have a better engine than Unreal Engine for other developers to tap into directly using Metal. I’m hoping so!!
Is Apple so petty they are worried about absolutely rigidity of their rules over existing customers rights. EPIC could agree to disable that optional transaction remotely while the litigation is going on, accepting that EPIC Fortnite being sold is disabled, but not its support or updates.
They had a ~20-page court filing ready to go for Apple's threat to terminate their developer account, if that counts as not having planned for it. This remedy is also specified in the developer agreement, so it's not like they could have been that surprised.
Now it remains to be seen whether a court will grant an injunction forcing Apple not to terminate the account or, adding onto that, return Fortnite to the App Store with no changes from Epic Games.
You are massively exaggerating. Your game running on the Unreal engine won’t just stop working just because Epic dev account gets closed. Nor does Epic need a working dev account to continue develop the engine. Apple developer tools are free and can be downloaded by anyone. Not to mention that any Epic employee can get their own get account with Apple it they need access to ore-release software. The only thing Epic would be losing is the ability to publish apps under their own name.
Bottom line: Epic is just blackmailing users of their engine in order to get leverage in their fight against Apple. I say: let them fight it out. Should Epic pull Mac and iOS support from their engine, there will be a violent backlash that won’t end in Epics favor.
I am curious. You have repeated said you love their platforms, but then add all sorts of other things. You hate that they do not maintain backward compatibility forever (”I can still play my old MS-DOS games, but I cannot run 32-bit apps!”), you have said you like their security, but want anyone to be able to install anything (”I do not like notarized apps on the Mac.”) and people to be able to side load apps (despite the fact that all that really does on Android is encourage piracy).
You say you love their hardware, but really only want it to run on Intel silicon.
Give all of your comments, I am not clear why you use their hardware at all. You seem to want a different ecosystem with a different set of rules. The thing is, that ecosystem exists and is called Android. Why is it that you, and so many others here, want to ruin the ecosystem that the vast majority of Apple users prefer and consciously choose?
I do not want a system where every one can have his own store and side load apps. That makes it impossible for smaller developers to succeed. It is no coincidence that it is Epic that is companies like Basecamp. Epic, Microsoft and Spotify that are complaining the loudest. They have the least need for the App Store, and would much prefer to have no safeguards over what they do with your information.
i believe that’s uniformly applies to the 2nd year of app Store fees. Something Spotify and Epic Games get as well yet failed to mention in their battle cries right?
Don’t worry Epic is just being hypocritical
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Ask Nelson Peltz. His 1.48% investment in P&G was enough to force a really ugly battle with P&G to get him on the board.
So yeah, 40% is a HUGE deal and, depending on who owns the rest, may well be an influential, if not controlling, amount.
Ironically you ask this yet you seem to constantly downvote my posts.
Really not the same thing and in that case Apple went to promote Open standards.
However, when the iphone first came out having the “real web” (not a crippled mobile version) was a big selling point. Twelve years later and we still get mobile websites (albeit better ones) and worse yet, each website trying to get you to install their app. At least the apps run better than flash, but its not always a better experience from what the “real web” was supposed to be.
I wonder how fast it will take to come to a decision about this in front of a judge?
This whole thing is going to end badly for Apple.
Even if this somehow doesn’t end up in open court discovery is going to be, no pun intended, epic. There will be countless testimonies from successful app makers that give monopolistic like testimony against Apple. When you get this big and make this much money like it or not the government shakes you down or the people in it. Just wait and see how much and whom Apple bundles money for on the Commerce committees.
I see no other way out of this then a redesign, tier or caps Apple will charge. I get why this is going to be ugly, we’re talking billions but just wait until all of those devices parents spent hundreds on no longer babysit their kids for them for hours at a time.
Suppose this goes nowhere, if this gets filed in the EU in a parallel suit or regulatory action they are far more likely to slap down an American company that is and has been on their radar for numerous reasons.
Even if this somehow doesn’t end up in open court discovery is going to be, no pun intended, epic. There will be countless testimonies from successful app makers that give monopolistic like testimony against Apple. When you get this big and make this much money like it or not the government shakes you down or the people in it. Just wait and see how much and whom Apple bundles money for on the Commerce committees.
I see no other way out of this then a redesign, tier or caps Apple will charge. I get why this is going to be ugly, we’re talking billions but just wait until all of those devices parents spent hundreds on no longer babysit their kids for them for hours at a time.
Suppose this goes nowhere, if this gets filed in the EU in a parallel suit or regulatory action they are far more likely to slap down an American company that is and has been on their radar for numerous reasons.
You might be right. Jealousy and envy at the success of others tends to bring out the worst in people.
Apple has been very successfull, in very many ways. And people would love to tear that down because of envy.
I think it’s a bit more complicated. Epic is trying to use their user base to gain a privileged position, by attempting to create a public opinion that favors their stance. No matter on who’s side you are, it’s Epic who broke their contractual obligations, not Apple. It is up to the court to decide whether these obligation are legal in the first place.
Personally, I think it’s a crappy move by Epic. A decent thing would be to file a legal complaint about Apples rules. Instead they chose to provoke. The entire mess with Fortnite is a calculated PR move by Epic. They hope that Apple would give in under the outrage. I understand that a lot of players are upset with Apple, but they should be also upset with Epic for using them as leverage.
TheYayAreaLiving 🎗️
Suspended
Correct, the original author's analogy is flawed and I think this falls more into "right to repair". But there are certainly parallels here.
Should you as the consumer have the right to repair your device with a cheaper third-party screen or replace the battery on your own? Or does Apple own that right? After all, maybe you as the consumer may choose an inferior screen or battery, and Apple is "protecting" you from making such a decision.
I see this similarly to the App Store. Apple prevents you from installing any software that isn't pre-approved by them. Of course Apple would never approve malware or other questionable software, so Apple protects you from them.
But by giving Apple or anyone power like this, they also have the potential to abuse it and perhaps extract unreasonable profits. For example, see John Deere (https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/...acking-their-tractors-with-ukrainian-firmware)
so, what would happen to those who already installed fortnite before the ban? Can Apple just remotely delete Fortnite from your device without your permission?
What if this were not a game but a productivity app like Notability that Apple found to be in violation of their term and conditions? Can Apple just remotely delete the app and all the data that you have created with the app like 5 years of class notes made by a medical student?
What if this were not a game but a productivity app like Notability that Apple found to be in violation of their term and conditions? Can Apple just remotely delete the app and all the data that you have created with the app like 5 years of class notes made by a medical student?
Indeed, no one is saying it's an accident.
But then women set light to buildings and committed all sorts of illegal bad crimes to finally get the right to vote which they had been denied.
For many things people have fought the system in order to make things better.
If women "just asked nicely" they would not have the vote today.
If devs "just as apple nicely" nothing will every ever change.
Fights have to be fought for things to change.
Whether you agree with any specific fight of course will be down to your position and viewpoint.
I am super excited to see this **** blow up in Apple's face, and witness the fallout that will be whatever ends up happening.
And whether any change happens will maybe be set on precedent.
Apple does not have a gaming engine that I know of, Unity is the most popular 3D engine on iOS simply because it's cheaper but it's miles away from Unreal in technical specs and presentation. Crytek's engine is pretty dope but very few people can master it. 2D games are made with GameMaker, Construct or similar. BTW Metal is **** much like OpenCL or any GPU framework Apple was involved in but go on..
Everyone rooting for Apple here is crazy, and I have no idea why Apple is making this move.
This punishes consumers and indie developers, not Epic. Consumers won’t get access to games that devs have worked on for years on the platform they are stuck on. A developer can’t just snap their fingers and switch to Unity.
Apple is literally blackmailing Epic at this point - they are asking for the government to drop some ridiculous regulations on them in their anti-trust case. In the end it is going to end up worse for Apple, Epic, and us.
This punishes consumers and indie developers, not Epic. Consumers won’t get access to games that devs have worked on for years on the platform they are stuck on. A developer can’t just snap their fingers and switch to Unity.
Apple is literally blackmailing Epic at this point - they are asking for the government to drop some ridiculous regulations on them in their anti-trust case. In the end it is going to end up worse for Apple, Epic, and us.
I like my iPhone and I would certainly welcome the opportunity to shop somewhere else.
Preventing me from buying apps for my phone from anywhere else sounds like a monopoly. Inflating the price I pay by 30% is robbery if I don’t have the choice to buy apps for my phone from somewhere else.
Preventing me from buying apps for my phone from anywhere else sounds like a monopoly. Inflating the price I pay by 30% is robbery if I don’t have the choice to buy apps for my phone from somewhere else.