Apple Threatens to Terminate Epic Games' Developer Accounts on August 28

[borgein]

A common misconception (and bad analogy) that is repeated here often.

It's not about Epic not wanting to pay fees. It's that the fees are unfair. It's that Apple only allows distribution through the App Store and then charges (what many see) as a very high fee. No one wants it for free. But developers should have a choice where they distribute their goods and how they are paid for.

If those of you think anything but the App Store is unsafe, then buy it there at a 30% increase in price than if you were to buy it from the developers website. YOUR CHOICE.

But right now there is no choice. And top selling apps that Apple really has nothing to do with generate huge dollars because in-app purchases are forced through the App Store.

Unfair to me.

Uh... There is a choice. And it's blatantly obvious at that: ANY Android device. Any PC with Windows or Linux. You must have heard about these choices by now, since they by far have the biggest market share (PC's are like 90-95% of computer market, Android is about 80% of the phone market, last time I checked). So... No choices you say?

Also, Epic Games has to pay the same 30% cut on the PlayStation Store and Microsoft Store and the Nintendo eShop to sell their games. All DLC transactions are also handled by the respective stores themselves. These stores also charges thousands of dollars each time you deploy a patch to your game. Yes, that is right. Epic games has to pay Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo thousands of dollars, if not tens of thousands of dollars, just to deploy a Fortnite 1.51 -> 1.52 patch.

You cannot choose to purchase a game digitally on any of these platforms outside of their own stores. If you have a Sony PlayStation, you can only use the PS Store. If you have an Xbox, you can only use the Microsoft Store. If you have a Nintendo Switch, you can only use the Nintendo eShop.

 

[Wildkraut]

I'm glad seeing that Apple treats all developers equally.
Break the rules and cry when you get punished... Oh Epic... That's not so epic. More like pathepic.

If Apple wins, you will see how quickly unattractive their eco system will become.

Anyway, devs will slowly move away, and more importantly, kids (Apples future customers) will always remember what a bad taste Apple left in their mouth, this will hit Apple badly.

With this move, Apple just ordered a parking lot beside Palm, Nokia, Motorola, Siemens, WinCE Devices...
But this won't care the Apple CEOs much, because they made their millions already with their sheeps.

 

[44267547]

The scrutiny against Apple is huge, but they’re not at fault. And good for them that they’re not reverting away from what needs to be done. Epic played a game (No-pun intended😁) and lost for gambling. Learn from your mistakes and move on.

 

[btrach144]

Epic are sitting on so much money its unbelievable!

And Apple has even more. Apple at one point had more cash reserves than the entire United States Government. Epic has a market share of 1 billion. Apple has a market share of 2 trillion.

 

[Scipster]

Apple, Google, Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo ALL have a 30% fee on their respective stores.

Actually, this isn't true. Nintendo only charges 10-12%. Sony and Microsoft both have progressive systems (most developers pay 5-15%, titles with 30m+ sales pay 30%). Only Google and Apple have 30% as the standard for all developers.

 

[SmugMaverick]

This is the end of Apple Arcade then

 

[ossifer]

1. I have a number of things to complain about Apple's products. This isn't one of them. I'd happily pay extra (and possibly do already) for applications that have been vetted. Actually I am dismayed that Apple let this slip through their process.
2. Apple has a 13.3% market share for smartphones. I'm sure a decidedly smaller share for gaming platforms as a whole. There is nothing close to a monopoly here. Sure Epic wants to get at Apple's customers for less money, but there is nothing in law that guarantees a company free access to another's customer base.
3. The upshot of this is there will be fewer 10-yr old boys wasting their lives on "fortnight", parents will be ecstatic. And guess who pays the CC bills and buys the smartphones?

 

[macsimcon]

Epic was making a lot of money. They wanted to make more money by violating a contract with Apple to which they had agreed. Apple said no. Epic sued. Apple put Epic under a microscope and discovered even more violations of the contract, and will terminate Epic's contract if the violations are not addressed.

What am I missing here? Apple does not have majority control of the smartphone market, so they can't be using "monopolistic" power against Epic, although Epic could argue Google is doing that (I don't think Google is).

Apple created an app store with rules. If Epic doesn't like the rules, Epic can create its own most successful product in history, develop an app store for that, and sell their software there in any fashion they like.

I don't see any anti-competitive behavior here.

 

[shotts56]

Tencent is also pro-government of the CCP. Anything or anyone that is pro communism should absolutely not be supported, regardless of who or where or what.

😂😂😂😂😂

Sounds like someone still thinks this is the 1950s.

 

[jonblatho]

Epic isn't "good" either.

This is a company which tries to monopolise the PC gaming market with exclusivity contracts worth millions. Which exploits its employees. Which forces gag contracts on indie developers using their engine. Which had no qualms to introduce paid gambling mechanics in games played by children. And which weaponises these children as tools in this calculated publicity stunt.

This is a war without heroes.

I completely agree that Epic is far from a saint, but if this leads to meaningful change for Apple's iOS developer relations going forward — where developers genuinely choose to go through Apple — I'm all for what they're doing in this specific situation. They're one of few companies strong enough to challenge Apple on this.

 

[Scipster]

Apple's market share of the US mobile market is 40%, which makes it a big enough player for regulation.

 

[4nNtt]

Game developer here, I use Unreal Engine on MacOS. If Apple blocked Epic from developer tools and Epic are unable to release Unreal Engine 5 on Mac I will be forced to stop using Apple entirely and will probably ditch my iPhone, iPad, AirPods etc for alternatives. I am sure a lot of other developers will end up doing the same thing. This comes at a critical time as well. Good thing I didn't buy a new MacBook Pro yet!

UE5 has the source code available, so you could compile it under your own account but it would be inconvenient. It could also probably run if you bypass gatekeeper.

 

[Aichon]

So losing a few lower-end games on a platform that has always been unfriendly for games will blow up in Apple's face?

If you're trying to act as if you care about gaming—as Apple has been—and trying to suggest that your platforms are friendly for games, yes, I think it's patently obvious that cutting off the guys who help make AAA games possible can blow up in your face. Will it? I don't know. But it certainly can.

Moreover, you yourself said, "Unreal is mostly used for big AAA PC and console games", but contrary to what you said immediately after that, it's also used for ports of those AAA games on mobile, as per the numerous examples I cited in my original post, none of which were "lower-end games". If you're the only platform without major games like those, it's a pretty glaring omission.

If anything Unity might be the winner here.

Now this, I agree with, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for Apple to come out the worse for wear as well.

 

[bierdybard]

Except in retail, the physical product goes through the hands of various employees before it ends up on the shelf. The product mentioned here is a digital kilobyte file that doesn't take any manpower to store/maintain.

You have obviously never worked in tech.

Technology doesn't "just work." That App Store doesn't just exist in a vacuum. It has a mountain of effort by developers, systems engineers, sysadmins, data center engineers, and others keeping it running and keeping the improvements coming. The analogy you are replying to is absolutely a good and valid one.

 

[btrach144]

EPIC's CEO is worth $5.3 billion presently. Cook is worth $1 billion. Clearly, someone's self-worth is overvalued and it isn't Tim Cook.

Apple has a market share of 2 trillion and Epic games has a market share around 1 billion. These CEOs aren’t funding with their own money. Tim has been CEO for roughly 9 years now and Tim has been CEO for almost 25 years.

 

[borgein]

If Apple wins, you will see how quickly unattractive their eco system will become.

Anyway, devs will slowly move away, and more importantly, kids (Apples future customers) will always remember what a bad taste Apple left in their mouth, this will hit Apple badly.

With this move, Apple just ordered a parking lot beside Palm, Nokia, Motorola, Siemens, WinCE Devices...
But this won't care the Apple CEOs much, because they made their millions already with their sheeps.

I couldn't care less if there was no games on Apple's devices. Honestly. The games on it is beyond crap anyways, and have always been. No loss really. I have always used dedicated consoles and a gaming PC for gaming. My apple devices are purely for communication and productivity - that's where they shine.

 

[falainber]

And its all about to shift to outbound instead of inbound.
I hope apple crushes this company.

They can't. There are other gaming platforms. iOS is just one of many (and Mac OS is irrelevant)

 

[Wildkraut]

Would be great if Unity does the same as Epic, then Apple is doomed.

Oh wait, I forgot they have SpriteKit and SceneKit, BWAHAHAHAHHAHA ROFL!

 

[TiggrToo]

Actually, this isn't true. Nintendo only charges 10-12%. Sony and Microsoft both have progressive systems (most developers pay 5-15%, titles with 30m+ sales pay 30%). Only Google and Apple have 30% as the standard for all developers.

Epic’s battle for “open platforms” ignores consoles’ massive closed market

Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo demand the same platform control—and the same 30% fee.

arstechnica.com

 

[macduke]

This isn’t a good look for anyone involved. I think Apple should just drop the rate to 15% and be done with it. And no more special deals for certain industries. All the app stores need to drop their rates. Epic is the lowest I think at 12% for their own store so at least they practice what they preach.

 

[l0stl0rd]

We all know how this might end...
Once out and never back in, just think Nvidia and Apple. Depending on how this goes, I guess it will be only Unity games on Apple devices in the future.

 

[4nNtt]

Actually, this isn't true. Nintendo's cut is about 12%. Sony and Microsoft both have progressive systems (most developers pay 5-15%, titles with 30m+ sales pay 30%). Only Google and Apple have 30% as the standard for all developers.

I've thought for years Apple should move to a progressive system to help increase quality of apps on iOS. 30% is a lot for a small developer or a niche app.

 

[macsimcon]

Apple is as bad as MS of their era.

The same people would have rooted against the MS monopoly of past, now rooting for the Apple monopoly (cause Apple is somehow their friend).

Apple has a monopoly? On what exactly? You know what? I don't want to watch HBO's shows on HBO, I want them on Showtime. That way, I only have to pay for Showtime. Disney too. And Netflix. Everyone's original creations should be available to me on Showtime so I only have to pay once. How is this any different?

 

[Realityck]

Epic playing checkers, Apple playing fifth dimensional chess

If I had to use the Kirk vs Spock chess game example, Apple is actually Kirk. Spock could see the game many moves ahead and that happens to be some lawyers opinions on this news. Any company that can take on both Apple and Google at the same time has this well planned. Thats no lightweight legal team they have either.

 

[falainber]

I couldn't care less if there was no games on Apple's devices. Honestly. The games on it is beyond crap anyways, and have always been. No loss really. I have always used dedicated consoles and a gaming PC for gaming. My apple devices are purely for communication and productivity - that's where they shine.

Without gaming, iOS will become a niche platform losing money in no time.