With speakers, a USB hub (albeit 2.0 when the competition offers 3.0) and a webcam included. Same 1440p resolution.
The ACD is still sold only because the Mac Pro has no Thunderbolt connectivity. It offers less value than the ATD that's for sure.
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Apple Thunderbolt Display Supplies Begin Running Short at Third-Party Resellers
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With speakers, a USB hub (albeit 2.0 when the competition offers 3.0) and a webcam included. Same 1440p resolution.
The ACD is still sold only because the Mac Pro has no Thunderbolt connectivity. It offers less value than the ATD that's for sure.
Must suck that I was able to quote your post before you had the chance the edit or delete it, huh? You can't run from your own words. You certainly tried, but failed.
You don't have any clue what apple will or will not do in the future. I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself before you finally accept that simple fact.
You made an outlandish claim (several outlandish claims actually) and were rightly ridiculed for it. You were proven wrong on every major point you tried to make. You lost. Just accept it and learn from defeat.
I think the recent Macbook Pro systems + either the 27" display or a thunderbolt dock hooked up to a decent storage setup would be close to that already. The firewire to Thunderbolt adapter makes this all the more possible if you do audio/video work because you can just take a large external drive with you and just swap the cable on the drive for one connected to the display/dock when you get home and then access other peripherals like backup storage and USB devices.
Given the entire Mac range apart from the Xeon based systems are effectively Laptops or non-portable laptops with either equal or better GPUs than their portable equivalents, it's not inconceivable to opt for a Macbook Pro and the Thunderbolt display instead of a 27" iMac or Mac Pro. Particularly as the next generation of intel cpus is due some time this year and the Mac Mini/Macbook Pro are close to the performance of the entry level Mac Pro from a purely CPU point of view.
Well no it doesn't. It doesn't create a desktop class high end GPU environment, which is what I said. Also, many of us are stuck between deciding for our preferred form factor (13") and having a discrete GPU (15"). Ultimately I went with the 13" but sacrificed to get there. An external high end GPU solution lets me game or run intense photo and video applications as well as I can with my desktop, through my 13". The Core i5 is plenty of CPU for most of what I do, my only real limiter is the GPU.
Thunderbolt NOW has the throughput to handle mobile GPU's and low-to-mid range desktop GPU's. I'd love to see something fast enough to run a high end card. I'd rather NOT have a desktop. Mobile CPU's are getting fast enough, I/O is fast enough, now we just need fast enough graphics to dethrone it WITHOUT a 4" thick 12 pound laptop with a 30 minute battery life. (Those huge 19" gaming laptops are worse than a desktop!). I think, for my situation anyway, an external high end GPU would eliminate my desktop. A mid grade GPU (what thunderbolt can handle if those external enclosures ever actually get released), would do a lot, but wouldn't replace my desktop.
I prefer to use a laptop. Who wouldn't? You can plug it into a display with a USB hub and be in a desktop environment, or unplug it and take it with you! I don't need hardcore graphics performance on the go (some do, but I don't) as I don't game or do intense photo/video stuff on the go (I prefer to do that with the color-accurate cinema display). So an external GPU pretty much handles it all for me...
With thunderbolt, I THINK, it would be possible to 'backfeed' the video to the laptops display as well. It would take some changes, but, I think it would also be possible to have an external 'graphics booster' that will boost the graphics performance of the built in display as well. THIS could be something with a high end mobile GPU, that is small and light, and could be a good companion to a 13" MBP. No different than when we used to carry around ZIP drives or external expresscard devices like sound cards or GbE cards. We carried those around until other technology replaced it (USB thumb drives and internal GbE and fast Wi-Fi available everywhere you go, in the case of my examples). Eventually system-on-a-chip graphics will be so fast the GPU will be nearly dead, as other add-on cards are as well that we used to need in the 90's (and said would never be truly replaced by integrated or built in devices... whoops!). But today, right now, integrated graphics aren't good enough and discrete mobile GPU's require compromises on battery, heat, and laptop size.
-John
Just bought one...
Oh heck, I know this is part of the game, but I just bought a Thunderbolt display in Hong Kong and lugged it up to Beijing myself, because this monitor is not available in mainland China for some unexplained reason (market too small? -- a little hard to believe. The Macbook Air seems to be a huge hit here [at least judging from the super yuppie coffeehouses of Beijing] and the Chinese absolutely LOVE anything which is a combination of Apple/The Latest/"The Best"/Expensive). Anyway, somebody somewhere in retail made the decision to only carry the LED Cinema Display in China. (You know it's not because it's hard to get them to the stores; the box clearly says assembled in China.)
Actually, of course when the superthin iMacs were released, you had to know this was only a matter of time.
And I assumed the market for these monitors here is still small enough that it would be several months at the earliest before the new ones make it to China. That's probably still the case, even if - best case scenario - they are released in the US and the rest of the world by, say, March.
By the way, when I finally got my monitor to Beijing and set it up, I discovered there was a big old hunk of dust right smack dab in the middle of the monitor at the top. Really annoying! But I do love Apple. Can you say "worldwide warranty"??? And when they say it they really mean it, not like Canon or Nikon, for those of you who've dealt with that kind of worldwide warranty (only lenses tend to be covered, not cameras -- that makes a lot of sense; no one would ever want to travel with their camera, would they?)
Made an appointment to take it in to the Apple store in Sanlitun in Beijing, showed the "genius" the hunk of dust and he immediately sighed and said, "sorry, this really shouldn't have happened". Then he tried to figure out if they could open it up and clean it for me right away. No, they couldn't, but he said it would be done within a day. When you argue about Apple's high prices, this is a big part of what you pay for -- intelligent, helpful people in the stores to solve your problems quickly and get you back up and running quickly. To anyone who makes their money using their computer, especially "creative professionals", that makes a huge difference.
Now, I also have to say, he said to me, "well, if we open it up and remove that big speck, there's a chance we'll introduce some other dust. But that piece is really too obvious." For those of you who have been in China, you'll recognize this attitude. If you have a problem, it's really fate that brought it to you, and you just have to deal with it. At least he explained that he had this reasoning because, since the Thunderbolt Display is not available in China, he couldn't just send me out the door with a completely new one (since they don't have any, to be clear).
Anyway, my final point is that this is an awesome monitor and worth every penny.
Before I bought the Thunderbolt Display I gambled on Amazon China and bought a 27-inch Philips monitor (Brilliance 273P it says in the upper corner) sight unseen because it had some good reviews, including a review on a European website I found which said the monitor is fine for photography and graphic design. Uh, no. The color on this display is a disaster and after hours of trying to calibrate it, I got it to the point where it's acceptable for emailing, etc, but not at all for any visual creative work. So I learned my lesson -- that extra couple hundred dollars you spend for the Apple product gets you a beautiful monitor with amazing color and great support from smart people. You could say I "overspent" on the Apple monitor, or you could say I spent $400 on a Philips monitor and learned that in the long run, you'll save a lot more money buying Apple in the first place.
(Unfortunately, Amazon China doesn't have the same policies as Amazon US -- I learned, stupidly -- and I can't return anything which has been opened and doesn't have some kind of fatal defect.)
Can't wait to get my TD back tomorrow! It's awesome.
Oh heck, I know this is part of the game, but I just bought a Thunderbolt display in Hong Kong and lugged it up to Beijing myself, because this monitor is not available in mainland China for some unexplained reason (market too small? -- a little hard to believe. The Macbook Air seems to be a huge hit here [at least judging from the super yuppie coffeehouses of Beijing] and the Chinese absolutely LOVE anything which is a combination of Apple/The Latest/"The Best"/Expensive). Anyway, somebody somewhere in retail made the decision to only carry the LED Cinema Display in China. (You know it's not because it's hard to get them to the stores; the box clearly says assembled in China.)
Actually, of course when the superthin iMacs were released, you had to know this was only a matter of time.
And I assumed the market for these monitors here is still small enough that it would be several months at the earliest before the new ones make it to China. That's probably still the case, even if - best case scenario - they are released in the US and the rest of the world by, say, March.
By the way, when I finally got my monitor to Beijing and set it up, I discovered there was a big old hunk of dust right smack dab in the middle of the monitor at the top. Really annoying! But I do love Apple. Can you say "worldwide warranty"??? And when they say it they really mean it, not like Canon or Nikon, for those of you who've dealt with that kind of worldwide warranty (only lenses tend to be covered, not cameras -- that makes a lot of sense; no one would ever want to travel with their camera, would they?)
Made an appointment to take it in to the Apple store in Sanlitun in Beijing, showed the "genius" the hunk of dust and he immediately sighed and said, "sorry, this really shouldn't have happened". Then he tried to figure out if they could open it up and clean it for me right away. No, they couldn't, but he said it would be done within a day. When you argue about Apple's high prices, this is a big part of what you pay for -- intelligent, helpful people in the stores to solve your problems quickly and get you back up and running quickly. To anyone who makes their money using their computer, especially "creative professionals", that makes a huge difference.
Now, I also have to say, he said to me, "well, if we open it up and remove that big speck, there's a chance we'll introduce some other dust. But that piece is really too obvious." For those of you who have been in China, you'll recognize this attitude. If you have a problem, it's really fate that brought it to you, and you just have to deal with it. At least he explained that he had this reasoning because, since the Thunderbolt Display is not available in China, he couldn't just send me out the door with a completely new one (since they don't have any, to be clear).
Anyway, my final point is that this is an awesome monitor and worth every penny.
Before I bought the Thunderbolt Display I gambled on Amazon China and bought a 27-inch Philips monitor (Brilliance 273P it says in the upper corner) sight unseen because it had some good reviews, including a review on a European website I found which said the monitor is fine for photography and graphic design. Uh, no. The color on this display is a disaster and after hours of trying to calibrate it, I got it to the point where it's acceptable for emailing, etc, but not at all for any visual creative work. So I learned my lesson -- that extra couple hundred dollars you spend for the Apple product gets you a beautiful monitor with amazing color and great support from smart people. You could say I "overspent" on the Apple monitor, or you could say I spent $400 on a Philips monitor and learned that in the long run, you'll save a lot more money buying Apple in the first place.
(Unfortunately, Amazon China doesn't have the same policies as Amazon US -- I learned, stupidly -- and I can't return anything which has been opened and doesn't have some kind of fatal defect.)
Can't wait to get my TD back tomorrow! It's awesome.
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I never really thought of the GPU issue really. It looks like if it's a powerful GPU like the Quadro 4000 you're after, at present it's simply not practical yet with Thunderbolt because of the limited bandwidth it can feed to GPUs and current mobile GPUs don't compete with the one's available for the Mac Pro. I doubt there'd be any kind of compromise by building the GPU hardware into the 27" display because Thunderbolt still only has the bandwidth of PCIe x2.5 not x16 like high end GPUs. They mentioned this on barefeats.
http://www.barefeats.com/minivmp.html
Maybe there'll be some kind of compromise in future systems. New Intel CPUs due this year and that could mean better GPUs too if Apple upgrade everything at once in their mobile systems.
No, not even like a Quadro, but like a 6xxx or 7xxx series AMD card, or the latest nVidia GT cards. Or heck, yank the 5870 out of my desktop and use IT, which even that card would be under-utilized and bottlenecked in a thunderbolt setup
Like I said, the technology is not there but I hope for it one day. Being able to use a top of the line consumer grade graphics card in a notebook really opens doors, as I think todays notebook CPU's and RAM is fast enough for most uses, but the GPU, even top of the line mobile GPU's, are lacking.
It is an excellent screen. I bought one a couple weeks ago for my Mac Mini. Costco has them for $649 too, although it will take longer to ship. I got mine from Newegg, it was listed at $699 but there was a $50 discount promotion code.
The built in USB3.0 hub is great to have, for the future when I get a Mini that supports USB3.0.
Add USB 3.0 to USB 2.0 iMac?
Apologies if this has already been asked, but would a Thunderbolt display equipped with USB 3.0 ports essentially give that capability to a 2011 iMac with USB 2.0 ports? All the data would travel over the Thunderbolt connection, so docking to such a display would, in effect, upgrade the iMac to USB 3.0 capability, correct?
If this is true, it might be worthwhile for me and others in my situation to hold off on getting a Thunderbolt display until they get USB 3.0 ports.
Apologies if this has already been asked, but would a Thunderbolt display equipped with USB 3.0 ports essentially give that capability to a 2011 iMac with USB 2.0 ports? All the data would travel over the Thunderbolt connection, so docking to such a display would, in effect, upgrade the iMac to USB 3.0 capability, correct?
If this is true, it might be worthwhile for me and others in my situation to hold off on getting a Thunderbolt display until they get USB 3.0 ports.
The Dell 2713hm. If one doesn't fancy all the bells and whistles, it does make a nice alternative, and the price is more in accordance to what a workstation owner would want to pay.
I don't necessarily need a card reader, tons of USB ports, Ethernet, speakers, a webcam, etc. on a monitor that just needs to be a monitor.
Yes that would work, but only the USB ports on the display would be USB 3.0, the ports on the iMac would remain USB 2.0
Yeah, and now Amazon shows them as being in stock again
Perhaps they aren't being updated?
Yeah, and now Amazon shows them as being in stock again
![gffXVSj.png]()
Im just hoping Apple lets us know prior to January 29th.. That's the last day I can return the Display I just bought!
I've been waiting to replace my upper monitor with the next Thunderbolt Display, but now I may just have to buy the current version when the new one is released. No VESA mount capability is a deal breaker.
Attachments
Is that running off a MBP? My thunderbolt display is moody with my 2012 model; I have to unplug it every time I restart the computer otherwise I lose brightness controls (small thing, I know, but annoying).
I wonder how long the Cinema display will be available?
Everyone is saying that it's only around because of the Mac Pro not supporting thunderbolt, but is that really true? My Mac has thunderbolt, yet I bought a Cinema display. Why? I wanted compatibility with my PC's too. Currently, the thunderbolt display is only compatible with ONE PC Motherboard, and strangely it is not backwards compatible with displayport.
I wonder if Apple sales will show that at least some people tend to favor the Cinema display for that reason? I also wonder if it would be possible for Apple to build in a 'legacy mode' in which the thunderbolt connector can revert to a miniDP connector. You'd lose the 'docking' features, obviously, but that's okay. I would have bought a thunderbolt display instead of an ACD if it was compatible with my PC's.
Furthermore, Mac Pro's have a pretty long life even in the professional market. They are very expensive, and also very much top-of-the-line workstations. Folks who buy dual CPU Mac Pro's aren't rushing to upgrade every year. So even if this next iteration of Mac Pro due this year includes thunderbolt, there are many who will stick with their current Mac Pro perhaps for years. Once again, a use case for the Apple Cinema Display (otherwise they'll lose that market to the Dell and HP 27 and 30" IPS Displays, which are the primary competition in terms of high resolution and color accuracy)
Anyway, long story short, unless Apple wants to just give away a ton of pro-level customers to Dell and HP, I don't see the Cinema Display going away any time soon. I would LOVE to see Apple somehow merge the two displays into one that is dual-compatible. I think a fantastic product would be a thunderbolt display, with USB 3.0, GbE, FW800, etc., but a 'legacy' mode that will allow it to operate sans dock functions over miniDP (which should also support daisy chaining to at least one other TB/ACD, since that's part of the DisplayPort standard)
It looks like the machine on the left is an iMac. The MBP only supports two monitors anyway, doesn't it?
Unless I'm mistaken and it's an iMac along with a MBP, but if that's the case then the MBP is hiding!
I love his setup, though I think it'd be cool if someone came up with a faux chin spoiler for the ACD/TD so it would match the iMac!'
Well, the reason I paid $1,000 had nothing to do with the MagSafe or USB 2.0. It's because it's a color accurate IPS display and a fantastic one at that, on par with the competition (which is also priced around a grand) or better. My wife is a photographer and in my spare time I do a lot of the post processing, making color accuracy paramount. It's also easy to calibrate.
However, I went with the Cinema Display, not the thunderbolt, despite having thunderbolt-equipped Macs. The reason? PC Compatibility. While I greatly prefer a Mac, I still have Windows machines, and a home built Windows running quad-core desktop runs some of the more intense applications. No way am I spending $1000 on a monitor that only works with one motherboard, otherwise one brand of computer. To me, I can spend the SAME amount of money as a thunderbolt display and get the same ability to charge my MBP and dock to USB 2.0 components, but it's ALSO compatible with my PC. To me, the Cinema display has far more value in the fact that, with adapters, it's compatible with virtually anything. It's all subjective of course, but there is more to it than Mac Pro's for many of us!
But, since it doesn't have USB 3.0 especially, it's really hard for me to agree with you that the thunderbolt display offers more value. You lose compatibility with every single device on the market (Heck you can even plug a game console into a Cinema Display with an HDMI to miniDP adapter), and gain FW800 and Gigabit ethernet... which to me, despite using both, isn't a great tradeoff.
Everyone is saying that it's only around because of the Mac Pro not supporting thunderbolt, but is that really true? My Mac has thunderbolt, yet I bought a Cinema display. Why? I wanted compatibility with my PC's too. Currently, the thunderbolt display is only compatible with ONE PC Motherboard, and strangely it is not backwards compatible with displayport.
I wonder if Apple sales will show that at least some people tend to favor the Cinema display for that reason? I also wonder if it would be possible for Apple to build in a 'legacy mode' in which the thunderbolt connector can revert to a miniDP connector. You'd lose the 'docking' features, obviously, but that's okay. I would have bought a thunderbolt display instead of an ACD if it was compatible with my PC's.
Furthermore, Mac Pro's have a pretty long life even in the professional market. They are very expensive, and also very much top-of-the-line workstations. Folks who buy dual CPU Mac Pro's aren't rushing to upgrade every year. So even if this next iteration of Mac Pro due this year includes thunderbolt, there are many who will stick with their current Mac Pro perhaps for years. Once again, a use case for the Apple Cinema Display (otherwise they'll lose that market to the Dell and HP 27 and 30" IPS Displays, which are the primary competition in terms of high resolution and color accuracy)
Anyway, long story short, unless Apple wants to just give away a ton of pro-level customers to Dell and HP, I don't see the Cinema Display going away any time soon. I would LOVE to see Apple somehow merge the two displays into one that is dual-compatible. I think a fantastic product would be a thunderbolt display, with USB 3.0, GbE, FW800, etc., but a 'legacy' mode that will allow it to operate sans dock functions over miniDP (which should also support daisy chaining to at least one other TB/ACD, since that's part of the DisplayPort standard)
It looks like the machine on the left is an iMac. The MBP only supports two monitors anyway, doesn't it?
Unless I'm mistaken and it's an iMac along with a MBP, but if that's the case then the MBP is hiding!
I love his setup, though I think it'd be cool if someone came up with a faux chin spoiler for the ACD/TD so it would match the iMac!'
Well, the reason I paid $1,000 had nothing to do with the MagSafe or USB 2.0. It's because it's a color accurate IPS display and a fantastic one at that, on par with the competition (which is also priced around a grand) or better. My wife is a photographer and in my spare time I do a lot of the post processing, making color accuracy paramount. It's also easy to calibrate.
However, I went with the Cinema Display, not the thunderbolt, despite having thunderbolt-equipped Macs. The reason? PC Compatibility. While I greatly prefer a Mac, I still have Windows machines, and a home built Windows running quad-core desktop runs some of the more intense applications. No way am I spending $1000 on a monitor that only works with one motherboard, otherwise one brand of computer. To me, I can spend the SAME amount of money as a thunderbolt display and get the same ability to charge my MBP and dock to USB 2.0 components, but it's ALSO compatible with my PC. To me, the Cinema display has far more value in the fact that, with adapters, it's compatible with virtually anything. It's all subjective of course, but there is more to it than Mac Pro's for many of us!
But, since it doesn't have USB 3.0 especially, it's really hard for me to agree with you that the thunderbolt display offers more value. You lose compatibility with every single device on the market (Heck you can even plug a game console into a Cinema Display with an HDMI to miniDP adapter), and gain FW800 and Gigabit ethernet... which to me, despite using both, isn't a great tradeoff.
Don't worry, Apple has monitored your return purchase time period and won't let you down.
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No, an iMac.
The TBD and Acer monitor are running off a 2011 iMac (The left screen). There actually is a hidden MacBook Air behind the iMac, but it is only displayed in Screen Sharing mode on one of the other screens when I am transferring files or updating software.
Thanks for the compliment. I never thought about the chin spoiler, but it did take me a little while to figure out how to line up the screens on the Monitors in Motion Boa II. I eventually was able to line them up by moving some spacers at the center post.
More info and pics in my original post: https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=16312059#post16312059
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Pleaseeee let this be true. Jan 29th is the last day I can return my freshly purchased TBD.