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Apple to Acquire Discreet Desktop Video division?
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It's a well know company now a division of AutoDesk in video/tv/broadcast and post production.
Go here to find out more...
www.discreet.com
(ingenious to look it up on the internet, eh?)
Or HERE for a history lesson....
http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=50009562&f=8300945231&m=56910232
Now, that would upset a lot of people. What if they did their magic and improved the app to make an impression with the current fanbase? "Hey, dude! maybe Apple ain´t that bad after all, eh? And that G5 looks rather tempting..."
Why not make new friends?
I prefer that way myself.
Winning over PC users might take a longer time, but forcing users to switch will not be pretty.
I already know some PC users who got upset about Shake.
PC users have to see the true value of OX 10 and the new powerful Macs that hopefully will keep coming and then decide to switch.
It can be done.
I think Apple is a very strong company now, they have solid software and a great relationship with IBM.
If old PC users can't see that, hopefully new computer users will give a Mac a chance.
First of all, it ain't going to happen, except MAYBE with Cleaner. Why would Discreet sell off its cash cow, 3dsMax, the best selling 3d app in the world, to a company that could very well kill the app to begin with. Let's face it, Apple screwed up with Shake.
I'm in the CG industry in LA, and studios are clamoring to find alternatives to Shake, now that Apple has the reigns. Take Dreamworks for instance... They were running Shake on Linux, but are switching over to PDI's in-house system, because they absolutely will not buy Macs to run Shake on. That's ditto for a lot of the big studios. It's more worth it to them to program their own software than use Macs in the pipeline. That's about how much respect Apple has in this industry.
So again, why would Discreet want to sell software that makes them a lot of money now, and shows huge profit potential in the future -- not to mention ties in with their high-end compositing workstations? Would Discreet let Combustion go Mac-only or Mac-cheaper, when it's a crucial bridge in a lot of Inferno / Flame compositing pipelines? Simple answer... no!
Again, Cleaner sounds feasible, and in line with Apple's market strategy, but buying out the whole line doesn't make sense for any party if you actually use a grain or two of logic.
I'm in the CG industry in LA, and studios are clamoring to find alternatives to Shake, now that Apple has the reigns. Take Dreamworks for instance... They were running Shake on Linux, but are switching over to PDI's in-house system, because they absolutely will not buy Macs to run Shake on. That's ditto for a lot of the big studios. It's more worth it to them to program their own software than use Macs in the pipeline. That's about how much respect Apple has in this industry.
So again, why would Discreet want to sell software that makes them a lot of money now, and shows huge profit potential in the future -- not to mention ties in with their high-end compositing workstations? Would Discreet let Combustion go Mac-only or Mac-cheaper, when it's a crucial bridge in a lot of Inferno / Flame compositing pipelines? Simple answer... no!
Again, Cleaner sounds feasible, and in line with Apple's market strategy, but buying out the whole line doesn't make sense for any party if you actually use a grain or two of logic.
You know what I say to this? Let them cry. If they're not willing to try a new format out of pride (that's all I can think of that's going on here) let them spend time looking for solution. I bet they waste more money going out and looking for alternatives than they do just buying a G5 with Shake or multiple G5s for that matter.
I do agree with you that this rumor does not make much sense. But just think how it would change things...
P-Worm
The thing is you can't tell me to use maya or lightwave in one day, because i've used 3DSMAX for years I know the interface from inside out, any modeller will know its hard to get used to a new 3d program.
The thing is it will never happen, because discreet will not sell its biggest product, and as someone slese said its impossible to convert.
In addition the reason apple has little respect in the industry is due to its poor and expensive customer service, crucial to coporations alike.
Developers will kill if they had to write game graphics on a mac, then unable to test it on a windows machine, it just kill 3DSMAX all together, because as we all know apple will make is absolutely mac based.
The thing is it will never happen, because discreet will not sell its biggest product, and as someone slese said its impossible to convert.
In addition the reason apple has little respect in the industry is due to its poor and expensive customer service, crucial to coporations alike.
Developers will kill if they had to write game graphics on a mac, then unable to test it on a windows machine, it just kill 3DSMAX all together, because as we all know apple will make is absolutely mac based.
Actually, P-worm, it's not that they're crying. Quite the opposite, really. A good CG pipeline is based on stability, longevity, and cost. It makes a lot more sense in the long run to come up with your own solutions if a software package you're using is showing THAT much unreliability from a market perspective (software is bought, pricing scheme decimated, key platform dropped). I wouldn't want to rely on something like that in my studio -- too much fluxuation. Nor could I possibly understand having a partially Mac pipeline.
Let's face it, the Intel/AMD hardware platform reigns supreme over the CG industry, and with good reason -- inexpensive, fast, reliable, and with your choice of OS. It has very little to do with pride on the part of these studios, and more to do with plain common sense. If something can save them money in the long haul, they're going to do it, and frankly, I don't know of any studio, not presided over by Steve Jobs, that feels Macintosh is a viable solution in any part of the pipeline.
Maybe we're on different wavelengths because I'm not one of those "market share at all costs!" kinda guys. Apple could drop off the earth tomorrow, and I'm quite sure the world would keep turning. It would just be a slightly less fun world. CG is for PCs, and frankly, I'd like to keep it that way -- I still have my powerbook at home!
I'm slightly confused. Apple still makes a Linux version of Shake, so what issues does Dreamworks have?
Not everyone is familair w/Discreet and/or the industries they provide products for so cut everyone some slack and try educating people to the situation and not insulting them.
Lethal
Originally posted by LethalWolfe
I'm slightly confused. Apple still makes a Linux version of Shake, so what issues does Dreamworks have?
Apple charges through the nose for render licences of Shake. Let's say you're compositing a feature film, and you've got 100 fileIn nodes in Shake (basically 100 layers) and you're running color correction and defocus, and a bunch of render-expensive nodes, you're going to need a renderfarm to render out all those frames. At 2k film-res, a complicated Shake composite can take quite a while to render. A few thousand frames, and you're going to need more than a couple of computers to crank out those frames within this century.
So, you have a few options...
1) Stay with Shake on Linux, pay for a couple dozen upgrades to 3.0, buy a boat load of render licences (at a few thousand a piece) to run on your render farm.
2) Move compositing to Macs. Buy a G5 renderfarm because render licenses are free on Mac. Sounds economically sound at first, but Shake ain't the only thing the compositors are using. Each studio writes TONS of custom tools, scripts, plugins, etc, for the software they use. They'd have to do a complete redevelopment of ALL of these tools for Mac, and then reintegrate them into their Linux workflow.
3) Program a compositor that you know is going to be around as long as you want it to be, and compatible with the workflow you want it to be in. It's a win-win situation. Every studio writes tons of custom software. Where do you think Shake came from in the first place? It was a studio's in-house compositing software, the guys who wrote it broke off and formed Nothing Real.
How much was Shake before Apple purchased it? For some reason I thought the price was kept about the same, Apple just gave insane discounts on the Mac version (or free if you are talking about render license).
Lethal
Lethal
Not ironic. One is a monopoly, the other is not. The rules are different for a monopoly because the monopolist has the power of "rents", or were you asleep in economics class?
There is a difference between vertical integration and vertical foreclosure.
And Apple has a long history of watchdogs making sure they don't create a monopoly. Remember the unbundling MacWrite and MacPaint? Remember 4th Dimension? Remember why they created Claris? When vendors feel threatened they move to a competing platform (Mac to Windows and Linux), that's the free market at work. When they don't have this option (leaving Windows), then things get bad.
Having said that, as you say, Apple must tread carefully. Their mistreatment of developers got them into a big mess in the past and they must be careful not to do it again.
I think the issue is less the cost of the software itself, but the (pun alert!) shaky ground it's on right now. Apple buys it and completely restructures pricing, availability, and displays a wavering commitment to upgrading the non-Mac version, and sales take a swan dive. What are you going to do, wait for it to collapse, or start getting out now, with two feet planted firmly on the ground when Apple says "Uh yeah, no more Linux version" or "we're collapsing Shake technology into Final Cut and dissolving Shake as a standalone app"?
Trust me, these studios have a lot of money, it's not a huge deal for them to sink $500,000 into render licences, but it is a huge deal to tell a director "we couldn't finish your shots on time because we were adjusting to a completely new compositing pipeline." Better to slowly transition into your own system (or a different package with more of a commitment to the industry), than to be forced into a transition by an application that's got a shaky future. Again with the puns.....
Thanks for the insights Brent Turbo. I don't follow the CG side of the industry very closely so I wasn't aware of the shake up Apple had caused.
Lethal
Apple had caused.Lethal
Originally posted by LethalWolfe
Thanks for the insights Brent Turbo. I don't follow the CG side of the industry very closely so I wasn't aware of the shake up
Wakka wakka! No prob dude! I certainly didn't mean to sound like a smart-ass at any point, it's just that I eat sleep and breathe this stuff all day long. In CG, every conversation has to do with CG. It's annoying, cuz you'll go out to dinner with some friends, and all you'll ever talk about is what's up in the industry. "Hey, did you hear the president of XXXXXXX XXXXXX punched a guy from XXX's lights out?" (that's a real one, by the way, though I shouldn't say who....)
Apple should buy Smoke, Flint, Flame and Inferno.
Those big SGI machines are on their way out. They run about $1M (plus the mandatory service package), and now, for about 1/4 that price, you can get an entire rack of XServes that will be just as fast, and way more scaleable.
If Discreets big boy apps ran on Apple hardware, Apple would OWN this market over night.
Those big SGI machines are on their way out. They run about $1M (plus the mandatory service package), and now, for about 1/4 that price, you can get an entire rack of XServes that will be just as fast, and way more scaleable.
If Discreets big boy apps ran on Apple hardware, Apple would OWN this market over night.
Brent Turbo you make a few points, but you have to admit; If Apple did some amazing things with this purchase (If it's not a rumor) it wouldn't do squat to change the bias of many people in the industry.
They don't care how much good Apple can do, because in the end Apple can do no good in their eyes.
So in their screwed up misconsception on how the world should run we get stuck with microsoft who really has a talent for screwing us, and things up.
It's good to do a bit of everything; you see, and understand more: It's not the platform anymore (post G4) it has more to do with what can you do with the software on any given platform.
Right now there's no longer such a thing as this hardware totally grinds the competitor to dust, but then again Apple (I believe) had Motorolla to thank for that.
Forgive me, but this mentality doesn't make any sense to me. I'm a big fan of Alias software, but I wouldn't be interested in them buying out technology so they could "own a market," so to speak. Who cares if they own the market? Unless you've got a lot of Apple stock or something, otherwise that doesn't even make sense.
Most people I run into use Macs for liesure, and PC/Linux for work, so I don't understand where the strong bias comes from, exactly. Also, I don't know how the "screwed up misconsception on how the world should run" puts Microsoft in first place, when Linux is really #1 right now in CG?
Oh I totally understand. I'm on the editing side of things and I'm completely familair w/the 24x7 shop talk. The most disgusting part has to be when someone gets a new piece of hardware or plugin or something and everyone gather's round like a bunch of 8 year olds at Toys R Us.
We're budgeted to get a pair of G5 based Media Composer Adrelines<sp?> as soon as Avid certifies the G5. So, ya, when those arrive at the office ain't no work gettin' done that day.I think the really sad part is instead of Maxim or Sports Illistrated in the bathroom it's all industry magainzes.
Lethal
Look to the future
Okay, Linux may rule the CG nest in the big studios who can afford to hire programmers, but look to the future. It's all the kids in high school and college who are going to become the digital storytellers. Many of them are NOT going to work for Dreamworks or Digital Domain. The majority of them will end up working out of the second bedroom in their house (or some similar inexpensive and tax-deductible place). They will be able to produce outstanding quality work on desktops and go right to digital distribution (broadband, DVD, cable, satellite, PlayStation, ???).
PCs are cheap, but there can be all kinds of compatiblity issues when working with apps from several different vendors, especially video apps. I use PCs and Macs and I've had far fewer problems with Macs. 99% of my media creation work now is on Mac.
If Apple bought Combustion/Cleaner and Corel (CorelDraw, PhotoPaint, Painter, Wordperfect Office), they wouldn't need Adobe or Microsoft.
Okay, Linux may rule the CG nest in the big studios who can afford to hire programmers, but look to the future. It's all the kids in high school and college who are going to become the digital storytellers. Many of them are NOT going to work for Dreamworks or Digital Domain. The majority of them will end up working out of the second bedroom in their house (or some similar inexpensive and tax-deductible place). They will be able to produce outstanding quality work on desktops and go right to digital distribution (broadband, DVD, cable, satellite, PlayStation, ???).
PCs are cheap, but there can be all kinds of compatiblity issues when working with apps from several different vendors, especially video apps. I use PCs and Macs and I've had far fewer problems with Macs. 99% of my media creation work now is on Mac.
If Apple bought Combustion/Cleaner and Corel (CorelDraw, PhotoPaint, Painter, Wordperfect Office), they wouldn't need Adobe or Microsoft.
Interesting info in the last page of posts.
I do web design, but have always been into motion graphics. I choose web design as my special in school, when motion still was a thing for expensive set ups, besides when I went to school everybody was raving about the net ( before the dot com crash )
I still want to get more into motion graphics and since I'm in L.A. there's no better place. But I would hate to change platform, if that's what I have to do.
I do web design, but have always been into motion graphics. I choose web design as my special in school, when motion still was a thing for expensive set ups, besides when I went to school everybody was raving about the net ( before the dot com crash )
I still want to get more into motion graphics and since I'm in L.A. there's no better place. But I would hate to change platform, if that's what I have to do.