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Apple to Acquire Discreet Desktop Video division?

Given recent history, this might not be an entirely good thing. If Apple packages its own 3d and low-end compositing apps, I see Adobe walking right out of the door with After FX, and Maya and LightWave probably wouldn't be far behind.

Adobe pretty much ignores Apple entirely in all of it's ads and promos; that relationship is damaged no matter what the two parties say publicly. Alias and NewTek could just as easily stop producing software for the Mac.

I know Apple certainly has a right to make money off software, and I'm grateful for Final Cut, but I'm concerned that, for broadcast designers like myself, working on the Mac will soon mean less options for software.
 
not holding my breath

Cleaner, yeah sure, it needs some serious help. Apple could do some great things, but as mentioned above, I see problems (read: conflict of interest) with the Real and WMP codecs & support.

Combustion is a great app, and I use and love it, but there is some serious conflict and overlap with both Shake and FCP. I just don't see where it would fit in Apple's strategy and still remain a whole, viable product (ie. not get scrapped for pieces-parts). It would also futher p1ss off Adobe w/ AE.

And finally, I own a seat of 3dsmax, and I just don't see Apple taking this puppy over. Porting max to OSX would be a HUGE undertaking -- Mammoth! Not to mention all the 3rd-party plugins!! 3dsmax is also a big money maker for discreet -- why would they want to sell it? Discreet has been known for being rather anti-mac in the past, so I kind of understand them possibly wanting to drop their apps that they have to dev for OSX.

I'd really love for this to happen, but I just don't see it.
 
Originally posted by jettredmont
Hmmm ... seems to me that if Apple was buying Cleaner then the Cleaner development team wouldn't have already been laid off ... so one rumor or the other is inaccurate.
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Isn't it just evidence of good business strategy by Apple? Buy it right after they lay off a bunch of employees (legally) and then buy the flaming hulk, let go most of the windows programmers shortly thereafter (Apple not being largely a windows shop) and then hire back Mac programmers on a cherry pick basis?

Rocketman
 
I agree. The most signifigant product up for sale here is 3DS max. It is the only thing keeping a dual Xeon on my desk at work instead of a dual G5. I have to use this product on a daily basis and it cannot be replaced due to my companys stubbornness to stick with it. While I am the strongest proponent of max on macs, I doubt that this will ever see the light of day. If you ask any max user we will tell you that max is so thoroughly built into windows that seperating the two would require a full rewrite of the core program. To illustrate my point: back in the summer there was a windows hotfix that when installed would protect your pc from the infamous blaster worm, ( :rolleyes: ). The other thing it did was cause any and all max files opened while the patch was installed to become corrupted and irrepairable. Why would a windows update cause a max core software issue? Because the core of max relies on the core of windows. We max fans have been clamoring for a rewrite for years. Instead we get more features packed into max that have been included with maya for years. It's pretty safe to say that apple is gearing towards a 3d app, (its the only puzzle piece missing from the pro app lineup), and perhaps 3d max will be thier solution, but if it is, don't expect to see it for a LONG time. :(
 
If this happens, it will be HUGE.

Discreet throws great parties and hires very pretty girls! That is exactly what Apple needs!

I remember GDC a few years back, we hooked up with some fellow Canadian 'game developers' at the Discreet GDC party. As we were walking over to the Fairmount, they latched onto one of the poor Discreet girls. Luckily she was with some guy. We were hoping he would pount the 'developers' and we would get some free entertainment - the GDC awards were being given out in the building we were standing next to and GTA3 was winning, so it would have been appropriate to have a brawl outside.

Canada rules. We make all the CG boobies bigger, cause we love our american cousins.
 
Originally posted by zedwards
First, DVD Studio Pro and Final Cut Pro come with a compression software already. So, most likely, most people will not need this.
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I can tell you don't use Cleaner.
Cleaner is nothing like the output options in FCP and vastly more powerful than Compressor.
 
Originally posted by Bob Knob
I can tell you don't use Cleaner.
Cleaner is nothing like the output options in FCP and vastly more powerful than Compressor.
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Cleaner is pretty sweet, but come on admit it: it's too expensive. Sorensen codecs don't cost _that_ much.
 
Originally posted by Insatiable
Given recent history, this might not be an entirely good thing. If Apple packages its own 3d and low-end compositing apps, I see Adobe walking right out of the door with After FX, and Maya and LightWave probably wouldn't be far behind.

Adobe pretty much ignores Apple entirely in all of it's ads and promos; that relationship is damaged no matter what the two parties say publicly. Alias and NewTek could just as easily stop producing software for the Mac.

I know Apple certainly has a right to make money off software, and I'm grateful for Final Cut, but I'm concerned that, for broadcast designers like myself, working on the Mac will soon mean less options for software.
Click to expand...

Alias/Maya won't back down from a good fight. After FX? Adobe will be part of MS or Apple in a couple of years so who cares. They will either have to survive w/o Adobe or consume them.

I won't even mention Lightwave - last thing I want to do is get any of those Amiga 2000 / Video Toaster zealots mad at me, because I think they are cool.
 
Originally posted by lewdvig
Cleaner is pretty sweet, but come on admit it: it's too expensive. Sorensen codecs don't cost _that_ much.
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I don't think Cleaner is too expensive, plus Cleaner can output just about anything you want. Compressor and Sorens Squeeze aren't as flexible in terms of output.

As far as Combustion goes it doesn't compete w/Shake, IMO. Yes they are both compositers but Shake is aimed much more at the hi-end/FX heavy film environment (ex. LotR) where as Combustion shares a similar demographic w/After Effects. Nor does Combustion overlap w/FCP 'cause FCP is an editor where as Combustion is a compositer. Yes FCP has better than average compositing ability for an editing app, but it's still no where near as good as a stand alone compositing app. What will be interesting, if the Combustion rumor is true, is to see if Apple releases a stand alone compositing app or just beefs up FCP's compositing ability (or maybe an add-on like Cinema Tools used to be?).


Lethal
 
Originally posted by LethalWolfe
I don't think Cleaner is too expensive, plus Cleaner can output just about anything you want. Compressor and Sorens Squeeze aren't as flexible in terms of output.
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I would say that Cleaner's feature set should be folded into QuickTime Pro...
 
"...is if Apple bought these three products and then resold 3dsMax to Alias Wavefront with the stipulation that they have to develop MAYA Unlimited for Mac OS X. It's just plain silly that they don't have it already, since the Mac platform accounts for 25% of their sales.

(Plus, they already make it for SGI and Linux. How hard can it be?)"

Alias Wavefront is reconsidering the future of Maya unlimited, on all platforms. in other words, they may just remove the product altogether and put the advanced functionality into the normal Maya. it makes little sense for them to port unlimited to the mac, if in a few months they are going to axe it.
 
There is no way Apple will ever ship 3dsmax. End of story.

3dsmax is garbage. I can't think of another commercial product that is worse than 3dsmax, not even from Microsoft.

Apple, don't even think about it.
 
there is a reason for why no one is grumbling about Apple's acquisitions.

Microsoft has a history of acquiring companies and then releasing a product with no new innovations. they then use their superior marketing resources, as well as the IT community's unflinching MS support, to outcompete the competition. once they 'win', once all major competition is bankrupt, they then let the produc stagnate. Internet explorer is a nice example of this. any acquisition Microsoft makes will therefore be seen skeptically.

Apple, on the other hand, has only acquired products where they believed they could innovate further. Almost every one of apple's successful products is successful because of high quality. And once they have cornered a particular market (video editing on the mac, for example), the innovation continues. even as adobe dropped out of the race with it's pro video editor (everyone was buying FCP), apple released a revamped video editing suite. unlike microsoft, apple is good for the industries it enters.

Apple's strength has often been it's ability to create new markets from old ideas. online music, for one. Digital jukebox software. iTunes is the best jukebox software available, because rather than just rehashing old ideas when designing it, they added a few new ones that made it better than the competition. Microsoft wins in markets by leveraging it's marketing budget, as well as it's corporate partnerships and the loyalty of IT administrators. apple wins markets by making competitive software.
 
Originally posted by Malic
I would say that Cleaner's feature set should be folded into QuickTime Pro...
Click to expand...

Do you want to pay $600 for QT Pro? ;) If Apple buys Cleaner it will most likely get merged w/Compressor (I can't see Apple have two seperate compression apps target towars pros).


Lethal
 
If Apple wants to get into the low end 3d content creation market, iTunes would be a good model. iTunes takes the 5-10 percent of ripping/playing features 90-95 percent of users use and implements them better than anyone else.

Apple could pretty easily:

1) Fire up XCode/IB and create a simple and elegant modeling package front-end

2) Clone a subset of the Maya API for the guts of the package

3) Apple touches - Seem-less Rendezvous network rendering, Apple-Scripting, heavy PPC optimzations, and so on

4) License/Buy a renderer or even an open source package

I would love to see what Apple could come up with.
 
yeah adobe would really consider dropping more apps if apple purchased combustion. it wouldn't look to great in adobe's eyes. why do you really need a compressor though? more and more video programs can squeeze files right out of the box. and i don't think discreet is in the hole, there really isn't a need for cleaner and it may just now begin to take effect.

and i don't think 3dstudio max is that bad. many users believe that 3dmax 6 is getting closer to maya's level.
 
Originally posted by Tuttle
There is no way Apple will ever ship 3dsmax. End of story.

3dsmax is garbage. I can't think of another commercial product that is worse than 3dsmax, not even from Microsoft.

Apple, don't even think about it.
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HUH? :confused:
hmmm maybe you just don't know how to use it cuz it's pretty f*cking powerful man. Of course, it's not that great for like video and movies (like maya is), but it sure is good for games.
 
Originally posted by FightTheFuture
yeah adobe would really consider dropping more apps if apple purchased combustion. it wouldn't look to great in adobe's eyes. why do you really need a compressor though? more and more video programs can squeeze files right out of the box. and i don't think discreet is in the hole, there really isn't a need for cleaner and it may just now begin to take effect.
Click to expand...


Comparing the built in output options of an NLE app to that of Cleaner (or heck even Compressor or Soreson Squeeze) is like comparing 256 color on your monitor to 32 bit color.

Compared to stand alone compression apps using an editor to output a compressed file is very rigid, very inflexible, and very hard to get the look, quality, and file size you need.


Lethal
 
Apple must be reading my posts because I figured Discreet was a prime company for Apple to buy out and even if they didn't buy the whole company they would be buying portions of it.

Thing is if Apple ports these all over to OS X and then drops the PC version it will make alot PC users buy Macs just for the software apps. This could be seen as bully tactic but it's a rough business and sometimes you've got get abit rough.

The reason no one will howl about Apple buying up smaller companies here and there is because Apple only owns 5% of the market. Now if Apple ever approaches say 40-50% of the market then folks will howl.

Apple has enough money earmarked to buy out couple of companies so I doubt Discreet will be the last one.

I could see Apple going after Macromedia but who knows. I say they need buy some gaming companies to port more games to Mac which in turn bring more PC users to the Mac.
 
Originally posted by i_am_a_cow
HUH? :confused:
hmmm maybe you just don't know how to use it cuz it's pretty f*cking powerful man.
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I have been making games for over ten years. I have setup the art workflow on multiple game projects. Both console and home computer.

Max is a piece of garbage.
 
Re: Just Hold on a Minute!!

Originally posted by Bakey
Sod Cleaner, if there's any credence to this rumour then maybe [just maybe] there may be 3ds Mac!!
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I agree. For the 3D community this would roll heads to the high heavens.

Mac haters would cry for years at the thought that Apple purchased 3DSMax (3DSMax, who would never consider porting to Apple's OS, and hardware.)

Then again......! This would put Apple in direct competiton with Alias Wavefront's Maya.

Hmmmmm.

Whoa.... thinking about this makes my head itch (or could it be dandruff?)
 

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Originally posted by ITR 81
Thing is if Apple ports these all over to OS X and then drops the PC version it will make alot PC users buy Macs just for the software apps. This could be seen as bully tactic but it's a rough business and sometimes you've got get abit rough.
Click to expand...
I doubt it. There are alternatives to every one of those apps that Discrete produces. 3DSMax is definitely replaceable (although it does have a large following) with the likes of Maya, Viz, Rhino, and Form-Z.

Apple has very little expertise in the world of 3D. It's better left to companies that specialize in it.

The problem with Apple is that it's hard for a lot of developers to make money off the Mac platform. So when the going gets tough, many of these developers end up dropping their Mac versions.
 
Cleaner Is What Apple Wants

Cleaner seems the most likely target here. Compressor is a version 1.0 limited functionality product right now. Cleaner technology could radically enhance and upgrade it much like acquiring Spruce led to an improved DVD Studio Pro. Since the Mac development team is already laid off, this seems likely, or at least logical.

The question is would they acquire only the Mac code or would Cleaner XL which features more up to date support for Real and Windows Media get included.

I'm not sure why Discreet would sell Combustion. Combustion 3 is already out for the Windows market. They can still make money on it and it has some compatibility with Discreet's higher-end windows products. The mac version is running several months behind and there clearly isn't much desire by Discreet to develop it faster. Getting Combustion would definately tick off Adobe and might mean them leaving the Mac video market altogether which woulld be a real problem for compositing pros committed to After Effects.

Getting a 3D program would be great for Apple, but they need to get one already working on the Mac, not one that would need a ton of work to re-port and then debug. You can sell more computers to PC Switchers with a current product ala EMagic.
 
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