I'll be able to use my iPad to pay for stuff? Oh good, now I won't look as foolish when I pull out my giant cheque-book.
BTW people:
when you can't find something = lose
when something isn't tight = loose
jaja NICE.
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Apple to Add Near Field Communication (NFC) Payments to iPad 2 and iPhone 5?
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jaja NICE.
Of course it is. It's a disaster. If this is actually true, I will NOT be buying anymore of these devices. 4 year streak will end.
Octopus card hong kong...
NFC already in use in hk since 2006 @100 million hk$ per year in transactions...
http://www.octopus.com.hk/home/en/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octopus_card
NFC already in use in hk since 2006 @100 million hk$ per year in transactions...
http://www.octopus.com.hk/home/en/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octopus_card
Then why do we need it? Why can't we just use our more secure credit cards, and leave this incredibly stupid and dangerous idea alone?
Because geeks can't leave anything alone?
NO..THANK..YOU..APPLE.
Because it's got the potential to be MORE secure than credit cards as well as being more convenient, flexible and intelligent.
The point of my original reply to you was that you can't do any of those things with a credit card... that's why!
And don't forget, this "incredibly dangerous and stupid idea" has been in successful use in some parts of the world for a long time now.
Hey.... just getting started for the day.
I think the "carrying less" is very exciting. I'd love to be able to reduce my wallet size. Between my bank cards for different accounts and loyalty cards (as something like what Starbucks is doing can help here), I'd love to be able to leave most at home.
My only concern with the whole thing is security. I would not want any of these accessible without some pin or password. I'd hate to see my iPhone become a high-risk item for theft because people know we "have it all" on our phones.
Hmm. Well, they competed with Tower Records just fine. Unlike Tower, Visa's unafraid of the technology, sure. But I've worked with Visa. They're a 'front' (marketing & branding) organization for a whole bunch of banks, and while the people there are very capable and innovative (in my experience), getting all those banks behind any initiative is like herding cats. (The Visa reps complained to me re this very fact on several occasions. It was especially true where new technology was concerned.) Apple, on the other hand, moves FAST, and with a unified purpose. (Thank Jobs for that - it's the same thing he gets so much yammering criticism for.)
This isn't like launching a new credit card, where you have to get millions of people to accept your product before you can even begin to make inroads on Visa. (And it is still mainly Visa, after all these years. MC is second, and Discover...) The iPhone is already accepted into people's lives. The next iteration will be in millions of hands in a matter of weeks. The iPhone is already doing business with big retail firms like Starbucks.
Furthermore, this kind of transaction has been favored in Japan for years. There are real advantages to it over using a card. For one thing, you have a complete record of the transaction on your phone, in your hand, immediately.
The iPhone5 will be up to scale to do this very quickly. And anyone who thinks Apple can't take business away from a deeply entrenched (but complacent and slow-moving) competitor just hasn't been paying attention for the past decade.
Right on all counts!
There's a big difference between being in competition with the BANKS and being in competition with VISA. Apple would either connect you with your money via your credit card, or your bank. Either way, Apple is not in competition with your bank. If the connection is made directly through the bank, though, the middleman VISA is cut out.
On the other hand, a bank with Apple's liquid assets would be a whole lot more secure and reliable than 99% of the banks out there.
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One security advantage too would be that if your Credit Card is stolen, you can't track it until it's used. With a phone, you can track the movements of the crooks as they drive around looking to clean out your account. Plus the remote "wipe" would be very useful.
NFC, more of a US problem
Banking and paying for stuff in the US is really very 1960s. You are still paying for things with checks?! Banking fees are outrageous, Visa is deploying technology that makes sure they get a cut of every transaction. This is a prime place for some government regulation with the customer at heart. First, establish a system that doesn't involve paying to conduct normal business. Two, make it so that banks can make money in ways other than fees. Three, establish some bank security that is customer focused. I am going to stop enumerating now. How about a whole system of electronic bills, and automatic payment? How about adopting IBAN and the ability to wire money between people without charging people to SEND and RECEIVE?
The easy thing to do might just be for the US to adopt a european country to show them how to do banking, and then.... we can talk about some flashy little terminal that you can use with your phone. NFC gets me very little of interest unless you live in the dark age of banking called the United States of Terminally Backward Banking.
Banking and paying for stuff in the US is really very 1960s. You are still paying for things with checks?! Banking fees are outrageous, Visa is deploying technology that makes sure they get a cut of every transaction. This is a prime place for some government regulation with the customer at heart. First, establish a system that doesn't involve paying to conduct normal business. Two, make it so that banks can make money in ways other than fees. Three, establish some bank security that is customer focused. I am going to stop enumerating now.
How about a whole system of electronic bills, and automatic payment? How about adopting IBAN and the ability to wire money between people without charging people to SEND and RECEIVE?The easy thing to do might just be for the US to adopt a european country to show them how to do banking, and then.... we can talk about some flashy little terminal that you can use with your phone. NFC gets me very little of interest unless you live in the dark age of banking called the United States of Terminally Backward Banking.
If you spent half as long reading posts that you've spent writing this, you'd have read the 5 or so other posts I made discussing these points. I could repeat myself, but it's easier if you just page back and read for yourself.
In terms of waving, not much difference. You're right that either would work. For example with trains here in Japan, I see many people using a small wallet to hold their card. But if I can carry less, I like that. From a standpoint of thinking it would be cool to see Apple sell more phones, this functionality would be significant, I believe, in the Japanese market.
At least here in Germany many people do not use credit cards and an important reason is people do not trust them. You can authorize payments (for example on the internet) and all you need is information that is printed on the card itself. No signature, no password, no PIN code. Since credit cards are not an every day payment method here, a lost/stolen card can be used for quite a long time until it gets noticed.
Credit card issuers usually do not publish numbers how much money is lost because of fraud. It is probably cheaper for them to deal with some abuse than to replace a well established system. But I don't think the same weak security would be acceptable in a new system.
And yes, NFC is chosen intentionally for this application because the short range is a security feature and not because of power requirements. NFC devices are not to be consused with battery less RFID transponders. NFC is bidirectional and needs an own power source anyway. But using normal radio communication much longer range would be possible without using more power. Think of these electronic keys for cars. They can go for years on a small button cell and have much longer range.
NFC is not the same as radio. It does not use electromagnetic waves, it uses just magnetic fields that have very limited range.
Christian
In the contactless scheme that Visa is already running in the UK:
1/ You can only buy items up to a certain small value (enough for lunch, or a newspaper or a coffee though)
2/ Every 5 or 6 purchases you get challenged by the system to enter a code.
In addition, systems in other parts of Europe are entirely stored-value, so
3/ You load up credit, and can't spend any more once it's gone.
So this can all be pretty safe if it's done right. The only security concern is to your privacy; unlike case, your purchases can be tracked.
Banking and paying for stuff in the US is really very 1960s. You are still paying for things with checks?! Banking fees are outrageous, Visa is deploying technology that makes sure they get a cut of every transaction. This is a prime place for some government regulation with the customer at heart. First, establish a system that doesn't involve paying to conduct normal business. Two, make it so that banks can make money in ways other than fees. Three, establish some bank security that is customer focused. I am going to stop enumerating now.
The easy thing to do might just be for the US to adopt a european country to show them how to do banking, and then.... we can talk about some flashy little terminal that you can use with your phone. NFC gets me very little of interest unless you live in the dark age of banking called the United States of Terminally Backward Banking.
yes banking system is so far behind in the US, I would laugh if it wouldn't be so sad.
After coming here from Europe, where you can make electronic payments from bank account to bank account and the money will transfere almost instantly, I was shocked to see that I here have to write and mail actual checks. Since a couple of years you can do your payments online and I thought finally they move to the modern times. I was pretty shocked when I found out that all they do than is to print out a check and put it in the mail - WTF? Seems like the US is far away to be a technology leader and stuck somewhere in the colonial times.
Gee, with that attitude, I can't wait to go back and read your "5 or so" posts. (And you're complaining about the time I spent writing ONE? Yeah, that's time much better spent learning at your feet. Oh, brother.)
But what could I possibly know, compared with you? All I did was actually work with Visa. But hey, you're the real expert here. No one else has anything worth saying. We should just shut up and wait for you to sprinkle your wisdom on us.
I get it. You're a self-proclaimed demi-god, therefore people are supposed to worship you. How's that working out in whatever passes for your real life, clownboy?
I personally don't see a big issue. Besides, RFID has been used in Japan on Cell phones for a few years now and they seem to have it working fine as far as I know. The way I look at it, if someone really wants to rip me off, they'll figure out a way.
The silliest security out there today is the signature on the back of your credit cards. What security does that offer? None. Anyone could sign it. It's so small it never looks like your real signature. It's silly.