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Apple to Allow iPhone Subsidies?
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The iPhone is solely an Apple product, that's why I don't seem to understand that it isn't. Apple sells them to AT&T and gets a cut of the contract in addition. End of story. Original iPhone owners who want a new phone will have to do what any other AT&T customer has to do to get a new phone. You don't seem to understand that AT&T is in the business of making money. Any way they can nickel and dime you they will. If they can sell you a phone at $400 they will until they can't push them anymore.
Understand that that is Apple's stated goal, not AT&Ts. AT&T doesn't care how many are sold in a year, as long as they're moving the stock. Considering that the first shipment is rumored to be 3 million units they will surely sell them all out, even at $400 eachregardless of Apple's goal.
Average consumers just got a $600 check they didn't count on. Some people will hoard itmost actuallywhile some will spend it. I probably could afford it without the checknot that I'm making gobs of money after finishing college, buying a house, getting married, and keeping up with my car payment and bills.
There are people still willing to spend that money and I reiterate that it would be stupid for AT&T to subsidize the phone and lose out on that money until that money stops coming in. I'm not saying it won't happen, I'm saying that it's a dumb business move. I think you're not listening to this point.
Again, this is an AT&T call. It makes no difference to them as long as both are selling. I'm sure they're rather sell the iPhone over the Blackberry though, as they're not paying that extra subsidy. The iPhone is perfect for cell companies actually. There's no subsidy but there's still a contract lock-in, plus you're required to keep the data-plan.
You did hit one thing straight on the head, though. Apple products make for a top selling product. You only left out that they also command a high price, that people are willing to pay. The only reason they need to drop the price is when the iPhone ceases to sell or the stock is too high and selling at a low rate. Then they might wish to branch out to target the lower demographic.
The monthly plans are huge moneymakers. This is true as it's their primary source of income. As far as contracts go, I'm sure if someone conducted a study they'd find that people generally stick with their carriers even when out of contract. It's familiar and people like to stick with familiarity. Besides, it's a pain in the ass to deal with switching over to another company, even with number portability. I've been with AT&T for about ten years and I've only had four phones thus far. I know people exist that change carriers, but I don't think it's as big of a problem as these cell phone companies think.
If you can make money without spending money, you should take that route until it stops being feasible. Otherwise, you made a stupid decision. Now, for Apple, that makes sense because their goal is not only to sell units, but to also have the most popular unit. They're competing against other phone manufacturers. AT&T is competing against other telecoms. If you want a Blackberry you can get it from AT&T, if you want an iPhone you can get it from AT&T. To them it doesn't matter. They need to only worry about their phone plans.
The only way I can see AT&T subsidizing the iPhone is if Apple pressures them to do it. That might happen. And AT&T might refuse.
Now that I will wholeheartedly agree with.
Winterspan,
I, too, find that "backwoods-ass" thing to be incredibly funny. I mean, who the hell types ya'll anyway? Though I did see yal the other day on the forum, which really made me sick for humanity as a whole.
News reporters reporting free upgrade and possible pay as you go on o2
http://www.phonesreview.co.uk/2008/...ee-upgrade-for-existing-customers-game-on-o2/
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=13305
http://techdigest.tv/2008/06/rumour_o2_gets.html
This is being reported all over the uk phone sites!!!!!
http://www.phonesreview.co.uk/2008/...ee-upgrade-for-existing-customers-game-on-o2/
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=13305
http://techdigest.tv/2008/06/rumour_o2_gets.html
This is being reported all over the uk phone sites!!!!!
You make some good points that I do "somewhat" agree with. A point that I want to make though, is that AT&T wants to use the Iphone as a reason for people to switch. You make an excellent point of noting that people tend to get comfortable with their carriers, and usually don't switch. The reality today is that all the major carriers have similar comparable phones, so to switch for a phone makes little sense. This is completely different though, since the Iphone came into play. Apple's brand is huge right now, and AT&T wants to use it to get customers. If the iphone wasn't great for AT&T, then apple wouldn't be able to milk AT&T for so much revenue.
While being the only carrier in the U.S. to host the iphone is reason enough for people to switch over, I think a subsidy would be wise, because it makes it all the more convincing for people to switch. 200$ off the price of a product is big to some people. You mention that AT&T needn't waste money because the iphone is not their problem. THe iphone is their problem, because it is one of the huge things that sets them apart from the other companies. Also, for all the people that subsidy brings in, is a hunk load of additional revenue, and loads of new customers who will likely get "comfortable" with AT&T, and be unlikely to leave. AT&T is looking to get more people locked into contracts. The AT&T exclusive iphone is a good way to get that done.
EDIT: Furthermore I want to complement you Zync, on making some great points. I agree that extra money being spent by a company is unnecessary. Personally, I just think a subsidy that will heavily increase the amount of subscribers for AT&T is wise for them.
I understand that, but I mean in the states. From what I read, AT&T are just now getting their 3g network up, nobody else has it here in the US? If thats true, then what is fueling all the hype about unlocked 3g iPhones in the US?
I agree %1,000. The keyword that a lot of people are over looking and focused on at the same time is UNLOCKED. Of course we know better but the average consumer doesn't. They see UNLOCKED and 3G and they "heard" that's better. End of story, that's all they need to know.
On this we agree. I think it is wise for AT&T to attract customers with a subsidy and I agree that it would work. It would probably be huge. I just think that they need to keep the price the same right now while the demand is high and the supply may be low. Once Apple bridges the gap with the supply, they could drop the price to get quick—well, guranteed long-term—money.
Good points made on your side as well. I think we're in accord and I hope I didn't offend. Sometimes I'm a little abrasive in my arguments.
Of course, it would still piss me off if they did subsidize it right away as I'm not eligible for the subsidy!
On this we agree. I think it is wise for AT&T to attract customers with a subsidy and I agree that it would work. It would probably be huge. I just think that they need to keep the price the same right now while the demand is high and the supply may be low. Once Apple bridges the gap with the supply, they could drop the price to get quickwell, guranteed long-termmoney.
Good points made on your side as well. I think we're in accord.
Of course, it would still piss me off if they did subsidize it right away as I'm not eligible for the subsidy!
There is some truth to that point. The rules of supply and demand are very real, and if the price gets lower when supply is already lower, then that would leave a lot of people waiting, and disappointed. The reality is that apple hasn't had iphones available on their site for about a month. This could be cause of lack of supply, or cause they don't want any bummed customers. The reality is, i am sure they have learned their lesson, and will have plenty of supply available when iphone 3g arrives. The priority to apple and at&t though, is to get as big of a wave of people to get it immediately as possible. a products biggest sales (especially in apple case) tend to be just after they come out (minus holidays). If a subsidy is able to send a larger number of people over to AT&T in the first days of the new iphone, then i feel like everybody wins. The bottom line is, a ton of people bought the first iphone at full price. I feel like after a year, the time has come for the iphone to be subsidized. Turn the iphone from being common, to standard. Get it in everyones pocket.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but still no sign, no syllable as to when the Iphone will land in my country When hell freezes over perhaps?
When hell freezes over perhaps?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but still no sign, no syllable as to when the Iphone will land in my country
The Netherlands has been announced.
When? Where? What operator?
S*it - sorry mate, I could have sworn I saw and announcement for the Netherlands at the same time that Scandinavia and the Baltic states was announced.
I'll keep searching.
There have been rumours floating around since last September. But without an EDGE network, there's not much use for all but the basic functions. Most, if not all, carriers have switched to UMTS or HSPDA by now.
For those confused about the subsidy...
This basically means Apple will sell about 10 Million Iphones to the Telco's in 2008 ( yep, you better believe this phone is going to be HARD to get hold off in the next few months if this is true!) and about 30 million in 2009. The telco's will pay Apple for the phones now knowing after the 'sell out price drop' of May, that they can sell as many as they can get hold of...
They'll still sell 40 million iPods putting Apple's tech into the hands of another 100 million people by the end of 2009.
10% of those will at some point, so impressed with their iPhone/Touch, buy a Mac - equating to 10 Million NEW Mac sales on top of the current 10 Million...this will significantly propel Mac sales forwards for some time...
All of this doesn't even take into account that there will be both a larger and a smaller Touch device as well...
End Result :
Apple Wins - Apple BOOMS!
This basically means Apple will sell about 10 Million Iphones to the Telco's in 2008 ( yep, you better believe this phone is going to be HARD to get hold off in the next few months if this is true!) and about 30 million in 2009. The telco's will pay Apple for the phones now knowing after the 'sell out price drop' of May, that they can sell as many as they can get hold of...
They'll still sell 40 million iPods putting Apple's tech into the hands of another 100 million people by the end of 2009.
10% of those will at some point, so impressed with their iPhone/Touch, buy a Mac - equating to 10 Million NEW Mac sales on top of the current 10 Million...this will significantly propel Mac sales forwards for some time...
All of this doesn't even take into account that there will be both a larger and a smaller Touch device as well...
End Result :
Apple Wins - Apple BOOMS!
All 3 of those quote their source as macworld. That's an old rumour that hasn't been confirmed or denied. It's certainly possible - it's in line with the costs of other phones - but until O2 confirm it it's still a rumour.
Unlocked for $399?
So... if I buy an iPhone at the Apple Store for $399, will it be unlocked? Or do I have to sign up for AT&T if I want to use the phone capabilities? I spend a lot of time overseas (half in USA, half in DE) and would really not be wedded to an AT&T contract (or their roaming charges in Europe).
So... if I buy an iPhone at the Apple Store for $399, will it be unlocked? Or do I have to sign up for AT&T if I want to use the phone capabilities? I spend a lot of time overseas (half in USA, half in DE) and would really not be wedded to an AT&T contract (or their roaming charges in Europe).
It's gonna be the 3G iPhone
I find it ironic that the carrier who got the deal in Scandinavia (in this case Denmark), is the only carrier with EDGE (plus a crap HSPDA network) which has to sell the iPhone. It would be so much better with 3 or TDC/Vodafone.
No I understand it this way:
You go to the Apple Store, buy the phone for $399 or $499. To get your $200 rebate you have to activate the iPhone through iTunes. The iPhone itself is probably still locked to AT&T, but just unlock it with the pwn-method to use it.
Sheeesh...
read through 9 pages and just want to say:
Could the cry-baby early adopters please shut up? You received a nice product, had it for a year now. You also got money back after really ridiculous crying!
Now it seems to me, that you feel betrayed, Apple will not offer you a FREE 3G iPhone?
You knew that the iPhone will see an update in the next 24 months. You knew that well before you signed this AT&T contract. You also knew, that technology cheapens every day. Now do me a favor
Stop that ridiculous whining! You won't get any special treatment! Get over it!
And NO, APPLE HAS NOT FOOLED YOU TO BUY A STUPID REV A PRODUCT! (sorry for the caps, it had to be said)
BOT: Sure it will be subsidized. And it's perfectly logical, that AT&T credit will be the form of subsidy. Any other decision would be plain stupid. iPhone makes money on the monthly plan. Just like any other mobile.
If the iPhone wasn't sold in the Apple Store, there would be no discussion. You'd only see the discounted price in AT&T stores.
read through 9 pages and just want to say:
Could the cry-baby early adopters please shut up? You received a nice product, had it for a year now. You also got money back after really ridiculous crying!
Now it seems to me, that you feel betrayed, Apple will not offer you a FREE 3G iPhone?
You knew that the iPhone will see an update in the next 24 months. You knew that well before you signed this AT&T contract. You also knew, that technology cheapens every day. Now do me a favor
Stop that ridiculous whining! You won't get any special treatment! Get over it!
And NO, APPLE HAS NOT FOOLED YOU TO BUY A STUPID REV A PRODUCT! (sorry for the caps, it had to be said)
BOT: Sure it will be subsidized. And it's perfectly logical, that AT&T credit will be the form of subsidy. Any other decision would be plain stupid. iPhone makes money on the monthly plan. Just like any other mobile.
If the iPhone wasn't sold in the Apple Store, there would be no discussion. You'd only see the discounted price in AT&T stores.
QFT.
If you want to get the latest and greatest then you pay a premium. In the meantime the world moves on and unless you cough up more cash you get left behind. That's just the way it works.
It has nothing to do with the success of the the iPhone, and everything about how much revenue the CellCos can make with it.i.e., is is profitable enough to even bother carrying. Apple needs the CellCos, so it has to bend if it wants them to carry it.
Generally CelCos. don't want to fork over $ to Apple each month. Apple's
original concept was this:
Sell the phone @ full boat direct to the public
CellCo. will not have to outlay any $ for new customers but will have to give Apple a % of revenue generated by the phone's use.
As we've seen, the problem with this is that people buy the phone and then don't sign up with the "official" carrier. They unlock the phone and stick in a SIM from another company. The "official" CellCo doesn't get any revenue b/c they didn't get a customer.
So in order to incentivize customers to sign up they go back to the "subsidy" model. Customer pays Apple full price, and if they go with the "official" carrier the carrier will give them back $X. Apple's cut of the revenue is then reduced by this amount or maybe even more. This also gets the initial cost of the phone low enough to entice customers put of by a $400 phone. More people that buy in, more revenue for the cellcos (and maybe Apple too).
I wouldn't get all excited about video-calling, it's not that great at all. It's been out in Japan for a long time and personally I've had it myself for over two years (here in England) and I think I've used it two or three times as a novelty, it's just more trouble than it's worth. When you make a voice call you can talk to them and sit there doing something else with your hands but if you make a video call you have to sit there looking at the phone, staring at somebody moving there lips who would probably rather be doing something else other than staring at you. It might be handy for a girlfriend or something but then she needs to have a video phone as well, not to mention that a lot of plans include specific video and voice minutes so you won't get as many.
I hadn't thought of the whole jailbreaking and unlocking thing, and I think you might have figured out exactly why AT&T would be inclined to subsidize the phone.
They make their money from selling the plans, not the phone. If everyone buys the phone but uses TMO or sends it back overseas, AT&T loses.
You get a gold star, sir. Brilliant.