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Ground game power struggle?

If this is true, then Apple is potentially spinning in a power struggle here.

Sounds like a few execs are battling to control Apple's ground game. Stores are obviously not like Cons. No 100 Macworlds a day in the stores, not even one Macworld in one store.
 
Nobody would want to watch video on a Ipod

Don't remember that being said, but to be honest I didn't really pay attention to the iPod mania until the iPod touch came out.

We can't put the CD player in the screen - they won't work when vertical

That wasn't the claim. At the time, the argument against a vertical CD player was that the ones that were available only offered a fraction of the speed that traditional ones did -- and indeed, that was quite true. A couple years later, when the tech evolved, Apple incorporated the new players into their new iMac.

PowerPC is superior

Again, at the time that Apple claimed that, they were correct. Up until the end of the NetBurst era, Intel's latest and greatest chips were consistently being beaten by PPC models. NetBurst was technically faster in benchmarks, but slower in real world application performance (in part due to its laughably long pipeline.) It wasn't as though Apple claimed that right up until they announced the transition -- they stopped saying that (and stopped doing face-off demos) when PPC development stagnated and Intel started improving their line.

All camcorders have USB

The vast majority of consumer camcorders sold in the last few years do, in fact, use USB. Not all, but most.
 
Quote:
Nobody would want to watch video on a Ipod​

Don't remember that being said, but to be honest I didn't really pay attention to the iPod mania until the iPod touch came out.

Video iPod Rocks, but Steve Jobs is a Liar:

Jason: “Neat! So, hey, I have a questions for you. Why wouldn’t you make a video iPod?”
Steve Jobs: “People don’t want to watch video on their iPod”.
Jason: “Really? We hacked the iPod to do video and people went nuts for it. I’m your customer and I’m telling you I would pay $100 more for a video iPod!”
Steve Jobs: “The iPod is for listening to music. It’s not designed for video.” Smiles wryly.
Jason (to self): “Either this guys a great liar or he’s a fool, and I know Steve Jobs is nobody’s fool”.


Quote:
We can't put the CD player in the screen - they won't work when vertical​

That wasn't the claim. At the time, the argument against a vertical CD player was that the ones that were available only offered a fraction of the speed that traditional ones did -- and indeed, that was quite true. A couple years later, when the tech evolved, Apple incorporated the new players into their new iMac.

Perhaps true for slot loaders - but the Imac had a tray loader. There may be some exceptions, but every tray loader that I've seen would work the same in either vertical or horizontal. Consider all the mini-towers sold that can be used horizontally as well as vertically.

The laptop-style tray loaders (which would have been more appropriate for the "Makeup Mirror" Imac) have a "clip" to hold the cd - likewise they perform the same in any reasonable orientation.


Quote:
PowerPC is superior​

Again, at the time that Apple claimed that, they were correct. Up until the end of the NetBurst era, Intel's latest and greatest chips were consistently being beaten by PPC models. NetBurst was technically faster in benchmarks, but slower in real world application performance (in part due to its laughably long pipeline.)

Apple was able to show hand-picked AltiVec-optimized individual tests where PPC was faster -- the infamous MacWorld bakeoffs.

In the real world (most "benchmarks" are applications, you know), they were more evenly matched - P4 ahead on some, PPC ahead on some. Apple held onto the claim until it was clearly no longer true.


Quote:
All camcorders have USB​

The vast majority of consumer camcorders sold in the last few years do, in fact, use USB. Not all, but most.

This myth has been thoroughly covered in the marathon Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks thread.

Most of these cameras (from the last few years) only support downloading still pictures over USB. Video needs 1394 to download on most of them.

Some of the newest ones support video over USB.
 

Meh. It's also worth noting that that's just a random quote found on two blogs...

As I said: I didn't really pay attention to anything iPod related until the iPod touch came out.


The laptop-style tray loaders (which would have been more appropriate for the "Makeup Mirror" Imac) have a "clip" to hold the cd - likewise they perform the same in any reasonable orientation.

Indeed they do. They also (at the time of the quote) were slower than traditional tray-loading drives.

Apple was able to show hand-picked AltiVec-optimized individual tests where PPC was faster -- the infamous MacWorld bakeoffs.

It wasn't as contrived as you seem to think it was. NetBurst required a hell of a lot more special optimization than the G4 did, mostly because of its pipeline. It could (and did) beat out the G4 on a lot of individual benchmarks -- but if you didn't use Intel's compiler and/or didn't generate branch prediction hints it was significantly less awesome.

In the real world (most "benchmarks" are applications, you know), they were more evenly matched - P4 ahead on some, PPC ahead on some. Apple held onto the claim until it was clearly no longer true.

Thanks, but when I said benchmarks I was referring to synthetic ones. In those, the Pentium 4 did a damn good job. In the real world (applications... you know...), apps that weren't optimized specifically for the Pentium 4 suffered from subpar performance for quite some time. The G4 and G5 didn't have as much of a problem, although they certainly didn't get anywhere near their advertised performance unless the applications used AltiVec.

When the G4 was released, it was clearly superior to the then-top-of-the-line Pentium 4. After some time the chips became more evenly matched. By the time the G5 was no longer a leader, Apple had stopped advertising it as such.

This myth has been thoroughly covered in the marathon Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks thread.

Most of these cameras (from the last few years) only support downloading still pictures over USB. Video needs 1394 to download on most of them.

<shrugs> I'll concede that one to you. I can't say I know much about consumer A/V equipment, so if you say it's not as common as I thought, I'll take your word for it.
 
Indeed they do. They also (at the time of the quote) were slower than traditional tray-loading drives.

That's odd, because a Dell Latitude C610 that shipped in January of 2002 had a 24x (CD read), 10x (CD-R write), 4X (CD-RW write) 8x (DVD read) tray-loading slim laptop drive. (HLDS GCC-4240N drive)

The Imac flat panel from January 2002 had 24x/8x/4x CD-RW or a 32x/12x/8x/8x CD-RW/DVD-ROM drive.

And, I dare say that the combo that "benchmarks" at 32X won't be much faster in "real world use" than the 24X. ;)

Doesn't look like much difference to me - and that's checking one random Dell model that shipped at the same time as the Imac. I'd wager that with some searching one could find a 32X laptop combo from that time....

Methinks Apple's claim is suspect....


... but enough of this tangent. </end>
 
What about the relationship between CES and Microsoft would need to change? What do you think that the relationship is?
Well, the president of CES, as well as Steve Ballmer, certainly made it clear in the Keynote. They see Microsoft as the center piece of CES.

I could see that the lack of enthusiasm on the crowd's part would speak to the opposite. Which would also match up with your following comment.

As a CES attendee for the last 5 years, I see Microsoft as a wannabee that's spending a lot of money on booth space and sponsorships to get mind share. I see Samsung and Sony and Panasonic as the big guys, with Pioneer, Sharp, Toshiba, Philips and others as the second tier. The computer folks (Microsoft, Intel, HP, Asus, ...) are bit players - although some have big pockets so that their booth size is much larger than their influence.

If I look at the influence on the major media it certainly points to Microsoft. They are the company that get the most attention at CES. That also feeds into the two trade shows being perceived as competing camps, despite their obvious differences between attendees and purpose.

The big question in my mind is to what extent does Apple see the benefit of CES? I can't help but think it is something very different than MacWorld.

Reread your comment, and tell me why I shouldn't dismiss it as rather arrogant and clueless? Why should CEA change its policies to court another small CE player? The ignorance here about CES is incredible....
I wrote that if CES wanted Apple to be in the keynote things would have to change. I didn't write that they WOULD change.

Your post makes me think of something that a Mac-using friend once said - "Apple computers are OK, it's the Apple users that I can't stand".

Anyway, I could write something snarky back to you, but I don't want to make ignorant assumptions about your ego and personality, unlike what you have done about me.
 
I wrote that if CES wanted Apple to be in the keynote things would have to change. I didn't write that they WOULD change.

But you still say "the keynote" - as if CES somehow was similar to MacWorlds of yore where a shining knight in a black mock turtle sets the stage for all that follows.

The pre-note (Ballmer's speech was the day before CES opened) really didn't have much impact - nothing like a MacWorld keynote where everyone rushes over to the exhibits to see the new gadgets that were just announced. The possible fact that the CEA president may have gushed about Microsoft (I didn't see the keynote or watch it later) would be expected -- certainly the very large checks that Microsoft writes to CEA for booth space and sponsorships make Microsoft very important in the eyes of CEA.

Nothing in Ballmer's keynote was unexpected. Windows 7 Beta - yeh!. Well, I was already running Windows 7 PDC (build 6801) on the laptop that I took to Las Vegas. Whoopee! I got to upgrade to Build 7000 when I got back on Sunday. Important and good news for Win7 coming out on time - but no surprise to anybody.


Anyway, I could write something snarky back to you, but I don't want to make ignorant assumptions about your ego and personality, unlike what you have done about me.

Fair enough - but really, how can one not take a statement like your "If CES were to become THE tradeshow, then Apple could really help out their image....." as a bit of Apple fan arrogance?

CES is doing quite well as "THE" tradeshow. If Apple shows up, it could help the CES image among the 10 year MacWorld veterans - but it's questionable whether it would do much for CES in the wider world.

This is especially true since CES is an industry-insider show for people to make connections between manufacturers, distributors and retailers.

Apple's grand plan is to undercut distributors and retailers - to own all the manufacturing channels, the retail stores, and the online store. This is the biggest misfit for Apple attending CES - the point of CES is to promote the middlemen that Apple has been intent on eliminating.
 
But you still say "the keynote" - as if CES somehow was similar to MacWorlds of yore where a shining knight in a black mock turtle sets the stage for all that follows.

The pre-note (Ballmer's speech was the day before CES opened) really didn't have much impact - nothing like a MacWorld keynote where everyone rushes over to the exhibits to see the new gadgets that were just announced. The possible fact that the CEA president may have gushed about Microsoft (I didn't see the keynote or watch it later) would be expected -- certainly the very large checks that Microsoft writes to CEA for booth space and sponsorships make Microsoft very important in the eyes of CEA.
I don't know how many other trade shows you attend, but I can tell you about the ones I've attended as well as the ones I have been involved with. And for reference, I am a product manager for a software company that generates over $1billion in annual revenue.

There is a speech made every morning on some topic of interest. They are generally called keynotes. But it is the first speech of the whole show that matters. And in most circles that is called THE keynote for the show.

Now, I personally have never attended a MacWorld. I find it something that is interesting to read about, but not worth the money. That's even when I work in the area.

What I have seen, for many years, and not just in the local news, but in trade publications, is that what's stated in the keynotes for both CES and MacWorld is compared as the Microsoft/Apple showdown. I don't work for a publication so if you disagree with that well, call up those publications and complain.

And While Windows 7 has already been reported on in small circles, and released to the MS developer network, the Ballmer speech was the first time it was pushed to the general media. This was their time to tout the new features and that's what they focused on.

Nothing in Ballmer's keynote was unexpected. Windows 7 Beta - yeh!. Well, I was already running Windows 7 PDC (build 6801) on the laptop that I took to Las Vegas. Whoopee! I got to upgrade to Build 7000 when I got back on Sunday. Important and good news for Win7 coming out on time - but no surprise to anybody.

For you, I can see that as the case. No more so than a member of the Apple Developer Program who is running beta builds of Snow Leopard. But the Ballmer keynote was not directed at someone who is an MS Developer.

Fair enough - but really, how can one not take a statement like your "If CES were to become THE tradeshow, then Apple could really help out their image....." as a bit of Apple fan arrogance?

CES is doing quite well as "THE" tradeshow. If Apple shows up, it could help the CES image among the 10 year MacWorld veterans - but it's questionable whether it would do much for CES in the wider world.

This is especially true since CES is an industry-insider show for people to make connections between manufacturers, distributors and retailers.

Whether you like it or not MacWorld and CES have ALWAYS been in competition. If anything this is why so many people are upset at Apple pulling out of MacWorld since it means that trade show is pretty much done.

In my opinion I care more about the loss of tax revenue and business to the city of San Francisco. But I really think trade shows are becoming less and less important in business. Compared to their costs they just do not generate the new sales that a company would like. The only thing that is gaining in importance are user conferences, but that is a wholly separate topic.

This particular thread is about Apple going to CES. And they will only do that if they see this is as an opportunity to grow the business. From what I have seen CES is very a different culture than what Apple normally does for trade shows. Which goes back to my original points.

Something is either going to be different about CES next year. OR The Apple presence is going to be unlike anything we have seen Apple do before. The last thing Apple is going to try and do is "bring" their fans to CES. That's pointless. This is about getting new business and that most certainly involves cashing in on their brand and culture in some form.

Apple's grand plan is to undercut distributors and retailers - to own all the manufacturing channels, the retail stores, and the online store. This is the biggest misfit for Apple attending CES - the point of CES is to promote the middlemen that Apple has been intent on eliminating.

What you write is no different than what EVERY company does. That's the nature of corporations. At the end of the day there is only one thing that truly matters for a company. Is that company working toward growing its revenue and its market. Everything else is just ancillary to that goal.
 
Apple at CES: WHY?

CES is where cutting-edge products are displayed; where the future can be seen.

And no place for a company whose computers and displays rely on 2006 technology and whose "top-of-the-line" workstation and displays haven't been significantly upgraded going on three years.

More corporate suicide.

Or perhaps they're planning on providing the "comic relief" in the show.

:apple:
 
Truth in Rumor!!

Do you think that this is a succession struggle, and that the "hormone imbalance" story is another mis-information campaign from Apple's PR droids?

Wow! Nailed this rumor on the CES head!


:D
 
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