Try telling that to an investor. Apple has a responsibility to maximise shareholder value above almost everything else. Also wiser men than me have said even if Apple did want to move manufacturing back to the US it wouldn't be able to. The manufacturing expertise just doesn't exist here to get the job done, because all of these jobs have been sent overseas for so long now.
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Apple to Contribute Toward Costs of Improving Working Conditions at Foxconn Facilities
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Try telling that to an investor. Apple has a responsibility to maximise shareholder value above almost everything else. Also wiser men than me have said even if Apple did want to move manufacturing back to the US it wouldn't be able to. The manufacturing expertise just doesn't exist here to get the job done, because all of these jobs have been sent overseas for so long now.
I really don't understand what you are trying to tell us here. Incomes in China are much less than in Europe or in the USA. So is the cost of living. Many people working at Foxconn intend to do this for a limited time only, so they want to work as much overtime as possible to make as much money in the shortest possible time, and they spend as little as possible on accomodation, for exactly the same reason.
The pay isn't "peanuts", it would allow a decent living style in China, but many employees choose to live as cheaply as possible so they can save most of their money. I haven't seen any indication of people working in tight containers. Since you mention suicides, the percentage of people working in US retail who are murdered by customers is a tiny bit higher than the percentage of Foxconn workers committing suicide.
That, and study after study has shown that people working around 40 hours a week have the absolute highest productivity. Not highest productivity per hour, but highest productivity per week. If you let the same person work 60 hours a week for six weeks, or you let them work 40 hours a week for six weeks, they will produce exactly the same amount of results. Except with the 60 hours week, that person is now tired and will fall behind quickly. Maybe Foxconn is learning that right now. And since the space in a factory is limited, and four people working 40 hours in shifts take less space than 3 people working 60 hours, they might even have significant cost savings that way.
But then you have companies making video games looking for young and impressionable employees who can be made to work 80 hours a week. In the USA, by the way.
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Apple needs to invest more money in making sure Foxconn does its job right. Quality control has really gone down.
Because Samsung, Sony, HP, or any other electronic manufacturer that uses Foxconn isn't Apple and the press and the holier-than-thou know-it-alls who have railed against these conditions care less about the employees than they do about giving Apple a black eye and all of the attention that garners. If they actually cared they would be paying attention to all of the people stating that Apple's Foxconn plants might not be perfect, but they are so much better than the plants that make product for the rest of the tech industry.
The Joy of Tech nailed this one spot on with http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/1684.html
Some of you guys are hilarious.
If you want "good" to be done, get out your checkbooks and make it so. Personally, I don't invest in a company and expect the tree-huggers and whale-savers to spend my money without some kind of a return. I'll decide charity on my own - like it should be.
Blame China for Foxconn's problems.
If you want "good" to be done, get out your checkbooks and make it so. Personally, I don't invest in a company and expect the tree-huggers and whale-savers to spend my money without some kind of a return. I'll decide charity on my own - like it should be.
Blame China for Foxconn's problems.
It happens just because it is Apple's time. I happened to Microsoft. It just began for Apple. It was before the cute underdog. Now it is the top dog and whatever Apple say or do is going to be under the loop.
Just in case any actual journalism is alive, I’d like to see a comparison of Apple vs. other electronics makers, on the following:
•*Conditions of Chinese workers (better at Apple, and steadily improving further)
•*How openly the company reports these conditions (completely open at Apple—nothing has been found beyond what Apple has reported to the public, while other companies refuse to even answer questions)
•*What is being done to improve things? (For Apple, much. For others... probably next to nothing since they won’t talk about it.)
• Did these improvement efforts and open reporting start before or after this year’s “scandal,” petitions, and often-fictious “journalism”? (For Apple, they started before. The scandal did not cause the good practices that were already in place, and there has been no sudden Apple “change of heart.” If any other companies step up too, eventually, then it is THEM who wouldn’t act until the pressure came.)
If there’s any way that Apple isn’t the best of the bunch in this, by far, I have yet to read about it. (And yes, as Apple has said for years, improvement is still needed and happening.)
I just hope that an entire industry doesn’t get a “free pass” to abuse people just because all eyes are on Apple alone, pretending it’s an Apple problem and never putting heat on all the rest.
Labor costs are not the reason ALL these companies are in China and not the US. The supply chain, manufacturing capabilities, multiple vital vendors all located right next to each other, ability to adapt extremely rapidly to major requirements, etc. are all lacking in the US. So Apple (and all the others) are leveraging a massive logistical advantage that Foxconn and other Chinese manufacturers have. If somebody creates a Foxconn in the US plus ALL the other partners and suppliers, all working closely together and ready to bring a massive assembly line up to speed in no time flat, then the US will offer what Apple needs. Labor costs are a small fraction of the price of an iPhone.
As for people paying “way too much” for Apple products... Apple’s biggest sellers are ones that the competition is struggling to match the price of. iPhones start at free, and the closest Dell to a MacBook Air costs hundreds more if you try to even come close on all (not cherry-picking) the specs.
Apple’s margins come from efficiency and good business, not from cheating anyone, including their customers. While other companies struggles to keep 6 million phone models going and keep discontinuing them in a constant churn, Apple maintains 2-3 iPhone lines at a time, backed by Tim Cook’s unmatched supply chain expertise. Those other companies can’t achieve economies of scale when they lack such focus. So they can’t get the margins even though they charge as much as Apple does, for products that don’t deliver as good and useful an experience.
I think you’ll find that Apple does reinvest a bit in technology and R&D
You’ll also fund their shareholders reasonably happy with those reinvestments.
As for litigating, Apple didn’t invent that game and they can’t decide not to play it. They are the most-sued tech company AND the most copied. They have no choice but defend themselves from constant litigation, and counter-litigation is an unavoidable way that is done. That includes the “see what sticks” method, which other companies are equally guilty of if not worse. Apple also has no choice but to defend their inventions or lose them—or worse, be seen as a soft target that companies will sue (and “borrow” from) even worse than they do now. They HAVE to stand up for themselves. The whole patent situation is a mess and a shame, but you can’t lay it at Apple’s door any more than you can the conditions in China.
•*Conditions of Chinese workers (better at Apple, and steadily improving further)
•*How openly the company reports these conditions (completely open at Apple—nothing has been found beyond what Apple has reported to the public, while other companies refuse to even answer questions)
•*What is being done to improve things? (For Apple, much. For others... probably next to nothing since they won’t talk about it.)
• Did these improvement efforts and open reporting start before or after this year’s “scandal,” petitions, and often-fictious “journalism”? (For Apple, they started before. The scandal did not cause the good practices that were already in place, and there has been no sudden Apple “change of heart.” If any other companies step up too, eventually, then it is THEM who wouldn’t act until the pressure came.)
If there’s any way that Apple isn’t the best of the bunch in this, by far, I have yet to read about it. (And yes, as Apple has said for years, improvement is still needed and happening.)
I just hope that an entire industry doesn’t get a “free pass” to abuse people just because all eyes are on Apple alone, pretending it’s an Apple problem and never putting heat on all the rest.
Labor costs are not the reason ALL these companies are in China and not the US. The supply chain, manufacturing capabilities, multiple vital vendors all located right next to each other, ability to adapt extremely rapidly to major requirements, etc. are all lacking in the US. So Apple (and all the others) are leveraging a massive logistical advantage that Foxconn and other Chinese manufacturers have. If somebody creates a Foxconn in the US plus ALL the other partners and suppliers, all working closely together and ready to bring a massive assembly line up to speed in no time flat, then the US will offer what Apple needs. Labor costs are a small fraction of the price of an iPhone.
As for people paying “way too much” for Apple products... Apple’s biggest sellers are ones that the competition is struggling to match the price of. iPhones start at free, and the closest Dell to a MacBook Air costs hundreds more if you try to even come close on all (not cherry-picking) the specs.
Apple’s margins come from efficiency and good business, not from cheating anyone, including their customers. While other companies struggles to keep 6 million phone models going and keep discontinuing them in a constant churn, Apple maintains 2-3 iPhone lines at a time, backed by Tim Cook’s unmatched supply chain expertise. Those other companies can’t achieve economies of scale when they lack such focus. So they can’t get the margins even though they charge as much as Apple does, for products that don’t deliver as good and useful an experience.
I think you’ll find that Apple does reinvest a bit in technology and R&D
You’ll also fund their shareholders reasonably happy with those reinvestments.As for litigating, Apple didn’t invent that game and they can’t decide not to play it. They are the most-sued tech company AND the most copied. They have no choice but defend themselves from constant litigation, and counter-litigation is an unavoidable way that is done. That includes the “see what sticks” method, which other companies are equally guilty of if not worse. Apple also has no choice but to defend their inventions or lose them—or worse, be seen as a soft target that companies will sue (and “borrow” from) even worse than they do now. They HAVE to stand up for themselves. The whole patent situation is a mess and a shame, but you can’t lay it at Apple’s door any more than you can the conditions in China.
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I don't understand why they're spending so much money to try to fix something that's really beyond their control when they could just move manufacturing to the United States and help fix our own problems -- the economy.
Must as I think Apple should only spend their money on making their products better, this is an exception. The working conditions did need to change, and I'm glad they have.
A tempting thought, but currently impossiblenot because of wages but because of the sheer capacity and flexibility that Chinese vendors offer and nobody in the US currently can:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/b...ss.html?_r=2&ref=charlesduhigg&pagewanted=all
First, it would make Apple's financial look terrible, with margins and returns much reduced. Investors are supposed to see through this sort of thing, but it's questionable whether they do.
Second, Apple would get saddled with a huge amount of PPE, which would be hard to get rid of if business needs changed. You really don't want to have a lot of money sunk in capital equipment if you don't need to-- it reduces your flexibility greatly.
Third, Apple would enormously increase the need to deal with the Chinese government. Better to leave that to the experts, and have some ability to bail if needed.
Finally, sad to say-- it does give Apple leverage on manufacturing costs that they would not have if Foxconn employees were Apple employees. It may not be nice, but that is reality.
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If they were using the cash for anything other than collecting interest, it would not be reported as "cash".
Because we buy products that are made in these factories.
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And for that matter, if gregwyattjr cares so much about the worst of the worst, why is he wasting time on some irrelevant Internet message board instead of investing all his energies in to identifying and doing something about the worst of the worst?
Why don't they start building factories here and hiring Americans for manufacturing?
How much profit is enough?
How much profit is enough?
The answer's been mentioned above in a series of posts. How about the opposite question...
Why would Apple want to build factories here?
Because China needs to be responsible for its own mess, not someone else. If some some Chinese man is beating his wife, don't call Apple, the local police will do fine.
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I emailed steve jobs 4 years ago and suggested apple do it's part, spend some of their cash horde by investing in US mfg facility-even just one line of products-I for one of probably millions, would pay a $50 premium for a made in "cupertino" product, come on Apple, it is a NO BRAINER...
It not up to Apple to do its part, its the way America does its part. America has been loosing jobs for years being sent over seas by our own doing. The infrastructure, logistics, factories & quality engineers needed to do the job. China is where we were a long time ago in the industrial revolution.
For Apple to even to consider bringing manufacturing back to the U.S., most of its competitors would need to do the same. Apples not going to compete on price when its competitors can do it for cheaper overseas.
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I have 4 1/2 years worth of ESPP shares from the early 2000's. I am very much interested in how my 150+ shares at $14 - $55 a piece do.
Let's review their efforts.
Steve wanted to remodel a house he bought. The government would not let him do it for the full decade during which he was "dying"!
Apple bought the Worldcom telco building in nocal. They wanted to make it into a server room which it now is. The process of getting permits was excruciating and even the telco licenses attached to the business they bought were never renewed so they could be a telco. Later on they explored being a MVNO in the wireless business but that experience left a really bad taste in their mouth. So now we are all reliant on and limited by the rollout plans of carriers like AT&T, Verizon and Sprint.
Apple selected a site in the Carolinas for a server farm. It's in the middle of nowhere for all practical purposes. There was considerable delay in getting it started due to governmental approvals even though some government layers were "partners" in the project.
HQ2, the spaceship. Apple bought the HP facility and an adjacent property and has the full throated support of the Cupertino city departments. Yet it still takes many years to get things going.
Just since Apple bought the first property on HQ2, they have built three factories in China which have been producing product for over a year. They enlarged a factory in Japan which has been producing product for over a year. Apple partnered with Foxconn to enlarge a factory in Brazil which has been producing product for a year. BTW all of these were initiated a year or two AFTER the first lot was purchased for HQ2.
So how are you complaining about Apple doing stuff in the USA again?
Write letters to your congresscritters on a federal and state level to fix the problem.
Rocketman
Big companies like to spin off manufacturing because it's the least profitable link in the chain. They give up "some" measure of control for lower costs. Even if the issue of foreign ownership of Chinese business was a complete non-issue, neither of us know exactly what their books look like anyway. If Apple owned them, they would take on responsibility for everything being up to code. In the end it's fully possible that their costs would increase with the only real advantage being the potential for tighter control. Also do you think Apple would really wish to take over manufacturing contracts for all of these other oems? I kind of doubt it.
You've been posting complete rhetoric lately. It's like you've hired someone to ghost write your responses
. Things like workplace safety are a good thing. If they affect the price, deal with it, but don't use anecdotes like this as scapegoats for price adjustments when it's a complex set of factors. If it worked like that, the current ipad pricing would be higher. I remember your last comment about supply chains, and while it remains true, it's not the only factor in determining market price.You're editorializing these anecdotes way too much without providing enough detail. Problems with going forward on construction are often blamed on regulation, but it seems to be more of a problem with efficiency in the way these things are processed. I can't find any information on if the house was determined to be a historical landmark/site prior to its purchase by Steve Jobs.
iPad & MacBook Air for instance. For what hardware Apple offers in price, its competitors end up cutting corners on something in order to compete.