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Apple to Debut 'HD+' 1080p iTunes Movie Services Later This Year?
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In the UK with a standard broadband connection and limit of about 10 gig a month.
because it's easy? because from my viewing distance I can't see the quality diff between 720 and 1080?
or am I still not in my right mind?
Did you not read the post? Apple just invented HD+, how could anyone else be streaming it already???
LOL! Glad I didn't have milk in my mouth. I would be drying out my keyboard now.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
If you are capped at 10GB per month, 720p is not your answer either. Think SD or less... or perhaps you shouldn't even be eating big chunks of such a tight cap in video downloads.
Just because iTunes might offer an option of 1080p downloads in this "HD+" doesn't mean everyone will be forced to grapple with their individual bandwidth issues, hard drive storage concerns, etc. Instead, those happy with 720p or SD will probably still have those SAME options to download. Right now, those that find 720p file "too big" or "too much a bandwidth hog" for their individual situations can choose the SD version. This option- should it come to pass- will likely be no different.
If it can work for some, GREAT. If it can't work for some, they can keep doing what they're doing now. Instead of seeing a new higher quality OPTION as some negative because the status quo is good enough, I suspect you can keep your individual status quo when this arrives. Instead of griping about the capability for a better option, this will simply invite more people to buy into Apple offerings and this option will be there waiting for you whenever you can finally upgrade the quality of your video viewing experience.
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Here is a post from another sight that expresses the feeling I get when watching some movies on bluray.
btw I noticed you chopped out the comment by Susan Sarandon, I guess it wouldn't be cool telling a film star that she doesn't know what she is talking about.
bluray too clear post that I found
While shopping, I often come across Blu Ray movies playing in store displays and I'm often surprised at how clear the video is...sometime TOO clear. I know that's the point of Blu Ray (I just bought a Blu player myself) but there are movies shot on film that wind up looking like cheap homemade videos.
Case in point: When I was first shopping around for a big TV and Blu Ray player, this one store had Pirates of the Caribbean playing on its top-of-the-line player and TV. From far away I could see the crystal clear video, and I thought, oh cool, it's the special features/making of/behind the scenes video. As I watched and waited for the director or something to come out from behind the camera, I realized I was watching the feature itself!
Some people love this factor, but for me it kind of made this big budget movie look extremely cheap, as if it was shot on videotape and not 35mm film. I couldn't believe it, at first I was like, "Wow! Blu Ray is extremely clear!" But that soon turned to, "Man, this film looks crappy!" I mean, on Blu Ray there seem to be no filters, no texture, no subtleties. It's just WHAM in your face; you can see everything, crystal clear, even the strokes of the makeup brushes.
Same thing happened months later as I was browsing and caught a glimpse of the Steve Carrell version of "Get Smart". Once again as I passed the monitor I thought I was watching a behind the scenes video of the movie, when it turns out, once again, that what I was seeing WAS the movie. It was so clear, it was TOO clear!
Instead of a professionally shot FILM with Hollywood actors in it, the overly crisp lines of the Blu Ray made it look like somebody's home video from the 80s!
Does anyone else feel this way?
I think you're confusing bluray with the crappy edge enhancement that they always enable on TVs in the stores.
With a properly set-up tv, bluray has a very film-like quality.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
RobertMartens, it sounds like you are passing "top of the line" monitors of the LCD/LED variety with the so called "Spanish Soap Opera" effect turned on (do a search). It is a problem (but some people like that effect) with what LCD/LED screens can do, not necessarily the source file on the BD itself. If you buy one of those TVs, you can change the mode (turn off that effect) and (likely) turn on various film-like effects too.
Otherwise, you're making an argument for poorer quality of picture because you personally like the look of it. I recall in the earlier days of HD the story of a family watching some HD channels and then flipping over to some SD channel and the child complaining about how the picture looked blurry on the latter channel. Do we really want to argue for lessor quality pictures in a primarily visual-based medium?
As others have posted, there is a future beyond 1080p. Film negatives contain detail several times greater than 1080p quality. Eventually (I think 10+ years from now), it may start taking hold in some mainstream way. We hunger for bigger & better graphics cards on all of our Macs. We hunger for bigger, higher resolutions on our iDevices. We want digital cameras that capture ever-sharper pictures. We buy HDTVs that have the hardware capability of 1920x1080 playback. But, for some reason, on this ONE topic, we have lots of people that try to rationalize sticking with a lesser quality picture (because it's "good enough", because of bandwidth issues, because of storage concerns, etc). Why is that?
Once Apple rolls it out and christens 1080p as great & wonderful, will all of the complainers flip flop on these opinions? Does Apple have to say something is good or bad before some of us can decide that something is good or bad for ourselves? In practically everything else that Apple touches, we generally hunger for latest & greatest, but here- in this ONE thing- a pool of us seem to want to stick with the status quo. And that latter pool seems to overlook that better hardware (capable of playing HD+) will have no problem playing their preferred options of 720p or SD at it's fullest quality.
This rumor- if it plays out into reality- creates an OPTION for those people hungry for it without necessarily affecting those happy with the status quo in any way at all. And if one really feels that 1080p (or someday better) is too sharp or detailed for their personal tastes, they can always flip options in their HDTVs and/or down convert to lower quality videos from higher quality masters (but you can't make this work the other way).
Otherwise, you're making an argument for poorer quality of picture because you personally like the look of it. I recall in the earlier days of HD the story of a family watching some HD channels and then flipping over to some SD channel and the child complaining about how the picture looked blurry on the latter channel. Do we really want to argue for lessor quality pictures in a primarily visual-based medium?
As others have posted, there is a future beyond 1080p. Film negatives contain detail several times greater than 1080p quality. Eventually (I think 10+ years from now), it may start taking hold in some mainstream way. We hunger for bigger & better graphics cards on all of our Macs. We hunger for bigger, higher resolutions on our iDevices. We want digital cameras that capture ever-sharper pictures. We buy HDTVs that have the hardware capability of 1920x1080 playback. But, for some reason, on this ONE topic, we have lots of people that try to rationalize sticking with a lesser quality picture (because it's "good enough", because of bandwidth issues, because of storage concerns, etc). Why is that?
Once Apple rolls it out and christens 1080p as great & wonderful, will all of the complainers flip flop on these opinions? Does Apple have to say something is good or bad before some of us can decide that something is good or bad for ourselves? In practically everything else that Apple touches, we generally hunger for latest & greatest, but here- in this ONE thing- a pool of us seem to want to stick with the status quo. And that latter pool seems to overlook that better hardware (capable of playing HD+) will have no problem playing their preferred options of 720p or SD at it's fullest quality.
This rumor- if it plays out into reality- creates an OPTION for those people hungry for it without necessarily affecting those happy with the status quo in any way at all. And if one really feels that 1080p (or someday better) is too sharp or detailed for their personal tastes, they can always flip options in their HDTVs and/or down convert to lower quality videos from higher quality masters (but you can't make this work the other way).
By the way, I've seen 720p and 1080p 42" Panasonic plasma TV's side by side and you can tell even 5-6 feet (152.4 to 182.88 cm) away how much sharper the 1080p display is, especially when you play back a Blu-ray disc.
But since here in the USA TV broadcasts are either 720p or 1080i, the difference between the two is very negligible.
Apple chose the 720p resolution for one reason: lower bandwidth requirements.
But since here in the USA TV broadcasts are either 720p or 1080i, the difference between the two is very negligible.
Apple chose the 720p resolution for one reason: lower bandwidth requirements.
Funny. So, because she stands in front of a camera and spits out memorized lines, she is some expert on resolution of film versus HD on blu-ray. Motion picture film stock far exceeds 1080P, even since the days of "The Wizard of OZ". So if Susan were willing to have her face splashed over an 80 foot screen at film resolution, she is actually less revealed in 1080P on my 70 inch screen. Simple fact. Susan earned a BA in Drama. Not the most scholarly of people, and certainly not in the sciences. So yes, on this topic, I am not so convinced she "knows what she is talking about".
No.
And it's already been explained to you (rather well) that a Blu-Ray can't have more resolution than it's source material, so you either hate the way movies look in the theater as well, or you're just psychologically buying into this nonsense.
Also, FWIW, many scenes in "Get Smart" were shot with a 360 degree shutter and the film looks like crap no matter where you watch it.
Many of us have no choice. I live in a suburb of Los Angeles where you'd think anything and everything would be available, and it doesn't matter what company or plan you go with, they all have fairly tight restrictions.
I see you're from Europe; from my experience the Internet flows much more freely there.
From the description of what it is he doesn't like, he's clearly referring to the crappy edge-enhancement junk that electronics stores enable on the TVs that makes it look like you are in the room with the actors - many people actually keep this crap turned on at home because they don't know any better.
Of course it has nothing to do with blu-ray - it has the same crappy effect on all content, regardless of source.
Assuming what you say is true, then DL DVD has plenty of space for 1080p movies. Who needs BR? 
The 720p versions are pretty good IMHO. When the 1080p are released, I'll probably try them out on some CGI-rich blockbuster and decide from that if they are worth the extra $1.
I'm guessing that for movies like Howards End, though, I'l be able to suffer through the 720p version.
I'm guessing that for movies like Howards End, though, I'l be able to suffer through the 720p version.
I'm glad 1080 is finally on the way. To be honest I won't be using it for most movies... 720p works well enough... but for movies with great effects or visuals... 1080 is the way to go!
See, when you say that DVD is better than Apple HD I KNOW you're full of it (or blind). When you said CRT and plasma, you also gave away that you must be watching a smallish size screen to boot. And guess what Holmes? Just because your screens are color-calibrated, it doesn't mean you have a decent SCALER in your system. They are two different things entirely!
There's nothing magical about Blu-Ray discs. You can put 100% the same quality on a hard drive. The DISC itself is just a storage medium, after all. Once my projector is upgraded to a 1080p model, all I have to do is plug a Crystal HD card into one of my Generation 1 ATV units and I have 1080p playback capability ready to go.
Define mainstream. Most HD content viewed by the public at large is 1080i (not p) and 720p. In others words, most content is from cable and satellite. Blu-Ray is a small part of the market, relatively speaking. Whether 1080p is even advantageous to you depends entirely on your setup (i.e. size of the screen relative to seating distance). People who watch 48" screens at 15 feet away are NOT seeing 1080p resolution. They're seeing less than 720p even. In other words, having a glut of 1080p sets doesn't mean people are actually seeing 1080p on their screens from their viewing positions (whether the limited source material or the limits of human eye resolving depth for a given distance). But that doesn't stop people from throwing numbers around and talking trash.
When someone makes a comment about digital blocking and DVDs looking better than an HD movie from iTunes, I know they're full of it. I've rented over 100 HD movies from iTunes and NONE looked worse than DVD or had any noticeable blocking effects.
In short, I'm SICK of people talking out their rear-ends on this subject. It's one thing to say that 1080p is sharper/higher resolution than 720p. That is certainly true and you will not find me saying that it isn't in any thread on here. But people telling me they can easily see the difference between 1080p and 720p on a 48" set at 15 feet away are FULL OF IT.
I was referring to the antiquated disc formats versus a hard drive/storage or even Cloud medium delivery, not the 720p resolution dude. Re-read it. I'm only using 720p right now because my projector is still 720p. Once I upgrade the projector (I don't have money to just burn, after all), I can easily get 1080p output with a simple $30 Crystal HD card and XBMC. If AppleTV 3 comes out by then with 1080p and is also $100, I'd probably go that way to preserve the GUI interface.
And I'm saying the average person who uses a relatively cheap 1080p set from Best Buy is NOT going to get a good picture from AppleTV precisely because that set is going to mangle/blur the picture when it upscales it to 1080p in order to display it on the screen. I believe that is the reason we see complaints about picture quality from ATV because I certainly do not see the problems they describe using a 720p projector (and that's with a 93" screen) or my 48" 720p plasma upstairs (no point in going 1080p there at all since one cannot resolve 1080p with a 48" set at the 10 feet viewing distance (and I'm not sitting closer in that room).
"Most people" is an observation related to feedback I've seen. How can I make up an observation?
I never said 720p was equivalent to 1080p. I have said it's not 'crap' just because it's not as sharp. It looks fine within certain sized screens versus viewing distances (most of which are far beyond the average person watching a 50" set at 15-20 feet away who 'thinks' they're seeing 1080p worth of detail when they are not). 10mbps has appeared just fine at 720p resolutions and H264 from what I've seen.
As for redbook CD versus iTunes, it's not that hard to prove. A double-blind test setup can be used to prove one can hear the differences between 256kbps AAC and redbook CD. I have yet to read about a single person proving that yet. Not even one.
I'm discussing MY setup and most of my movies I have on my server are NOT from iTunes. They're Handbrake encoded. AppleTV2 can decode 1080p movies to 720p output, so I can easily encode NOW for a 1080p projector/playback setup in the future.
And I say you are the one that's now trolling. Who the frack do you think you are to tell me that my setup doesn't look "great" when you have NOT seen it and the word 'great is subjective? Did I say it looks the BEST or that it couldn't possibly look any better? No, I NEVER said any such thing. I question more the people that claim 720p looks worse than DVDs or looks horrible who have 48" sets and are watching over 12 feet away. Those are BOGUS claims.
http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html
My setup looks good enough that I'm not in a mega-rush to upgrade the projector just for the hell of it, especially when cable would not improve one bit nor would the remainder of my encoded DVD collection or 720p only movies.
But this thread is about a future 1080p AppleTV. I can plug a $30 crystal card into one of my gen1 ATVs right now and get 1080p out of XBMC with appropriate sources. You seem to be confusing two different lines of discussion. One is about the inconvenience of all disc formats including Blu-Ray with all the forced crap (warnings, previews, animated menus, etc.) that comes with them and the other is the BOGUS claims about 720p made on here by some people. I have never said that 1080p isn't superior to 720p. I HAVE said that certain people are full of it in their comments about 720p and/or Apple's iTunes 720p.
I've been discussing more than one thing in this thread. You're apparently trolling with your BS comments about what looks good when you clearly have not seen my setup. You seem to think you don't need to, but I can tell you do because what you're describing (crap apparently) and reality are two different things.
There's always a comparison. If I move back another 8 feet from my screen, I'm seeing the maximum the eye can resolve with 20/20 vision (full limit of 720p under ANY circumstance or bit-rate). That's a mere 17 feet away from the screen (A shorter distance than many living rooms watch a 48" set). I don't give a crap how great you think 1080p may be, you WON'T SEE IT at 17 feet from a 93" screen, Blu-Ray or not. To see the FULL benefit of 1080p, I can sit NO MORE than 9 feet from my 93" screen. Everything in-between is a gradual loss of visible resolution between 9 and 17 feet away and that's with perfect 1080p quality. To see full 1080p quality at 17 feet, I'd need a screen over 150" in size! So yes, that's impressive for a very large screen. But it's also NOT what most people have access to. My 93" screen at 9 feet is barely at full 1080p capable distance and some have commented I'm already sitting too close to the screen, but that's how close you HAVE to be in order to see the full resolution of 1080p.
Again, this chart explains it all in terms of distance versus size versus how much resolution your eye can see. If your tv is x size and you are not in the 1080p region (let alone the ideal line of max resolution), you CANNOT make BS claims about 1080p trumping 720p if you aren't even seeing it. And I see a LOT of those posts on these forums in these kinds of threads. No, it doesn't make 720p equal or better to 1080p in any sense, but it does flush out a lot of pure stupid bullcrap nonsense.
http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html
Given it cost well over $5k at the time for a 1080p projector and you didn't send me the extra $3500 and that nothing on regular TV comes close to 1080p resolution, I think it's been serving quite well for the past 4.5 years. It'll eventually get upgraded to 1080p, but even then I won't want a DISC format. I'll want it on a server the same as now.
Yet again: http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html
Unless you sit less than 5 feet from a 48" screen (even less for smaller screens), you aren't seeing 1080p dude. People hold retina displays right up to their faces. That's what you can see it. But unless you actually sit 5 feet or less away from a 48" set, you are NOT seeing 1080p.
Ideally, it's 4x 1080p and that's with very slow film in ideal lighting. In practical use, resolution is lost in less than ideal light settings and with each succeeding print (It gets grainier and grainier). Most theaters that go digital choose guaranteed resolution over theoretical resolution for precisely those reasons (there's also the even-ness of lighting, color accuracy, etc. to consider).
I guess you never heard of VUDU, then.
Correction. You can ONLY tell 5-6 feet away on that size set.
Have a look at this chart:
http://hd1080i.com/chart.gif
Considering the fact that this is a rumor, I think people are getting way too caught up on the title HD+, assuming Apple is calling 1080p some kind of Super HD, while 720 is just regular HD.
They may be what Apple is doing, however it could simply be a new product name, for a new Apple TV Model. For Instance;
TV
- All the features of the current Apple TV Device we have available now
HD+
- Same Features as Apple TV
- 1TB Data Storage
- 1080p Video capability
- WiFi (or Airport) Base Station
- Time Machine Backup Capability
- Wireless Sync of Stored content with iOS devices
IMHO if Apple markets a device that has 1080p Video, and more features than a standardTV, than it deserves the name HD+, because the + is in reference to other features, not better HD.
-
They may be what Apple is doing, however it could simply be a new product name, for a new Apple TV Model. For Instance;
TV- All the features of the current Apple TV Device we have available now
HD+- Same Features as Apple TV
- 1TB Data Storage
- 1080p Video capability
- WiFi (or Airport) Base Station
- Time Machine Backup Capability
- Wireless Sync of Stored content with iOS devices
IMHO if Apple markets a device that has 1080p Video, and more features than a standard
TV, than it deserves the name HD+, because the + is in reference to other features, not better HD.-