Its not what end users want, its what apple is focusing on. Beside, most of the apple fans, don't care if apple increases (or decreases) its enterprise push. They're more interested in iPhones and laptops.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple to Deprecate Raft of Essential Services in macOS Server This Spring
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
So Apple laptops are not Macs, and no end user works in an enterprise environment?
Last edited:
Well, looks like my Mini will stay on the latest iteration. I really don't want (or have the time) to plod through the command line or 3rd party. I can administer my server fairly easily (file, TM and VPN) and quickly as it is now. I was wondering what was going on when I upgraded to HS Server and certain services were gone from the server app.
So macOS Server will be gone. Apple published this notice back on the 24th and there’s been a forum post in the Server part of the MR forum since then.
macOS Server was great, it worked great for our business. After the deprecation list in 5.4 we sort of preeempted this and started work on developing our own GUI to manage the services, and compiling the necessary projects to replace macOS Server with our own macOS Server !
macOS Server was great, it worked great for our business. After the deprecation list in 5.4 we sort of preeempted this and started work on developing our own GUI to manage the services, and compiling the necessary projects to replace macOS Server with our own macOS Server !
Nah. I use a lot of these on a macOS Server right now, and it's way easier than dealing with it in Linux, which I have also done on my RPi and other machines. This way I can casually host this stuff for family use instead of being a part time sysadmin for yet more stuff.
Especially VPN, oh man. I have no idea why all the Linux packages made it so hard. Config files for dayyys.
I'd be very interested to learn if your development effort will end up in something publicly available.
3) yes
2) iCloud is very secure, data is encrypted and sorry some users like yours a little paranoid. This data is more secure on iCloud than on our personal servers.
PS: don't get me wrong, I'm quite sad for these changes, I sold my mini 2 days ago for this reason.
Oh, I trust Apple not to leak my data. But I don't trust them not to screw it up, or more likely put me in a situation where I accidentally screw it up but it's really their fault for doing something silently and/or having a confusing interface.
Anyway... that's how I lost all my notes. RIP my Captain's Log and my car's MPG calculations.
There goes the power user.
@OldSchoolMacGuy, great post!
Seems that Apple internal MacOS team is either overwhelmed or just lazy in direction. Linux continues to take on server and network computing roles. Soon the desktop and then where will Apple MacOS be then? I thought the Macintosh and the rest of the lineups OS was important to Apple, and should gain features and change the desktop platform ... instead its getting worse. Too much focus on how the desktop "looks" vs the under pinnings.
Now with iOS more focus on fit and finish, less features to debut this year in iOS 12 upcoming in the fall, according to Bloomberg and Axios' Frena ... it's possible the mac is set to die in a few years. Soon we'll all be shopping Dell's wares, as Dell is going public again.
@OldSchoolMacGuy, great post!
Seems that Apple internal MacOS team is either overwhelmed or just lazy in direction. Linux continues to take on server and network computing roles. Soon the desktop and then where will Apple MacOS be then? I thought the Macintosh and the rest of the lineups OS was important to Apple, and should gain features and change the desktop platform ... instead its getting worse. Too much focus on how the desktop "looks" vs the under pinnings.
Now with iOS more focus on fit and finish, less features to debut this year in iOS 12 upcoming in the fall, according to Bloomberg and Axios' Frena ... it's possible the mac is set to die in a few years. Soon we'll all be shopping Dell's wares, as Dell is going public again.
Every time some MacOS bug is found or built-in MacOS application is crippled, the standard response seems to be "do 'xyz' in Terminal". It seems like Apple's internal MacOS team has been taken over by a bunch of Linuxheads who think that everyone should do everything in the command line, so why bother fixing GUI issues?
And the "Mac rules, Windoze sucks" people will be rationalizing it, saying Apple made the right decision in discontinuing the Mac and leaving the desktop/laptop computer market.
Last edited:
Or just stop running your own servers? It’s quite odd to maintain a local server to support a website these days.
Why would you do this to your users?
Fully agreed.
Odd though because although many commands in Linux are similar or can directly be used in OSX (Unix based) many don't work; probably re-enforcing something you've noticed.
Because those users supposedly don't care. So they better not complain when the IT stops bothering to support their Macs and replaces them all with Windows/Linux PCs.
Last edited:
What percentage of the server market is Mac servers anyway? I would guess at well under 1% but I don't have figures. Will anyone really notice other than a few Apple enthusiasts?
Got no sales? Expect no support.
Got no sales? Expect no support.
Last edited:
Everytime Apple releases or updates something it gets worse, look at the Mac Mini - you're right it's the small varied users that help the system.
When you are running a small company, you don't have the time to make sure all different services are updated to the latest releases and working smoothly together. That's where macOS Server comes in: you got it all in one package. It is updated in regular intervals and usually it works, you don't have to bother.
Yes, you could run most services on a Raspberry Pi (which is much more power efficient) but that is not really the point here.
All I can say: Google, here I come. And with it a good part of my ecosystem.
Yes, you could run most services on a Raspberry Pi (which is much more power efficient) but that is not really the point here.
All I can say: Google, here I come. And with it a good part of my ecosystem.
Once those services are gone, my work (20+ macs) will just switch to all Windows or all Linux solution. As the person responsible for IT here, I have no desire to try to glue bits and pieces from different vendors. I guess I am not alone.
For the same reason I basically switched our group to Macs some 10 years ago --I considered it the superior, most complete and easy-to-manage platform. With Apple abandoning things that make my life with the platform convenient/possible, we will simply switch to something else. It's as simple as that.
For the same reason I basically switched our group to Macs some 10 years ago --I considered it the superior, most complete and easy-to-manage platform. With Apple abandoning things that make my life with the platform convenient/possible, we will simply switch to something else. It's as simple as that.
...but I guess that's the point that Apple is acknowledging: if you want email and web services for a small business, Google, Office 365 etc. - or even a VPS account if you're a power user - where your data gets hosted on a professionally maintained cloud of servers with top-tier internet connections is the tool for the job, nowadays. Especially when you have to support employees with home PCs, iDevices, Androids etc., run industrial-strength spam blocking, set up SPF/DKIM etc.
I resent being forced to subscribe to cloud services to run applications that don't even need the internet, and have those apps go down when the internet is down - but when we're talking about services that rely on the anyway that's not so relevant.
The security/availability of cloud services is probably significantly better than you'll achieve via DIY - its a bit like keeping a stack of gold under your bed because you don't trust the banks to keep your money safe...
[doublepost=1517402503][/doublepost]
Schools and universities are increasingly outsourcing their mail and web services to Google, Office365 etc. and even before that they were more likely to run Unix- or Windows-based systems for their key services than Mac servers - even if many staff use Macs. Today's MacOS can work - has to work - with industry/de-facto standard services.
[doublepost=1517403859][/doublepost]
...which (according to the article you linked to) can be implemented with open source software, but need some certificates only shipped with MacOS server (which existing users will have). Maybe Apple will provide a way of getting these (obviously a mechanism exists for 3rd party iOS App developers who implement push messages).
No, the power user has already got fed up with the limitations of trying to configure complex services with a point'n'drool interface, installed macports or homebrew and replaced the out-of-date versions of the standard server applications supplied with MacOS.
We are currently evaluating whether this will be possible. I think our requirements are pretty standard to those running macOS Server so I can't see why we wouldn't be able to make it publicly available.
The school district I work for used to have a bunch of Mac servers. 9 schools in the district, and each had several servers. One to do DHCP & Open Directory, plus a few as file servers for user data. The district's data center had a few more servers for email, and for software that was server/client-based. When the district upgraded to fiber between the schools, they consolidated the OD servers into one central server, with a replica at each school, so we really needed one server at each school. We later went to Google to do our email, and consolidated some of the data center servers with VM. Also outsourced some of these to Amazon Web Services. Not sure how this new version of Server will affect us.
Why do I get the feeling that Apple will turn its Mac line into glorified Chromebooks? No local accounts, just log into your AppleID. All your files in the cloud. While this could work for many consumers, I'm sure power users won't like it. Plus, what will happen when users don't have internet access? Maybe keep some files in local storage, but I see Macs, and a lot of computers for that matter, becoming "dumb terminals" like back in the day computing.
I very much doubt so as there is absolutely no other implementation available besides the commercial solution Kerio Connect which (alone in the first year) costs 20x the price macOS Server was sold for.
So if you are hosting your proper CalDAV, CardDAV and Postfix/Dovecot solution with your own domains you not only have to restart at zero by using the proper tools and reconfiguring them – you also can forget about instant email, calendar and contact notifications for everyone of them.
To resume the scenario: for energy consumption reasons on iOS Apple did not support existing realtime notification standards like IMAP IDLE but created its proprietary push notifications protocol APN which is not available at all on an open source level. Unfortunately, Apple now removes the possibility for all of us to use this specific functionality on anything else than (AFAIK) Gmail, iCloud and Yahoo.
So those of us using the Apple Mail client on iOS with X.509 certificates etc. have to rethink their configuration completely as from now on every e-mail will not be delivered in realtime anymore which was before considered to be one of the strong points of devices like the iPhone. And please, do not tell me to use some proprietary chatting solution instead as this would be something completely different, usually with no local archiving function and/or identity confirming and contents encrytping X.509 certificates.
...frankly, that's more of a reason for not using iOS than worrying about MacOS Server.