True. You usually stay inside an ecosystem specifically for the reason that something like this shouldn’t happen.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple to Deprecate Raft of Essential Services in macOS Server This Spring
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
What percentage of Apple's own servers and data centers are running Mac server hardware and Mac OS Server software? Shouldn't Apple "eat their own dog food" and actually use the products they try to sell to customers? Apple fans get all snarky when other computer companies are caught using Macs. But when the situation is reversed, why should Apple get a free pass? Apple should be thankful that PC biased news outlets aren't all over this and calling Apple out.
Last edited:
Ever heard of virtualization? The cloud? Linux?
The things that apple is deprecating are things that I would have NEVER have used Mac OS Server to do in a production environment. Mac OS Server has always been second rate garbage. And yes, I have used it.
Using that as a paradigm would lead one to believe that Nothing Apple say about the Professional needs of users is important. If you focus consumer, What use does any Apple product really have in business?
The thing is, why would you want a macOS server at that point anyway? They deprecate it to a level where it does nothing. Then again, that's what they did to server hardware, too. Nobody in their right mind wants to run anything but a toy test server in a mac mini. Even less so in an iMac.
Better just face the facts. Apple is moving towards the toy land on all fronts. I bet the next Macbook 'pro' won't have a keyboard, just a huge touch area so it's more iPad-like. And a single lightning port.
Last edited:
Check this out, I assume more tools could move to MacOS.
Four MacOS Server tools that have moved to High Sierra.
https://www.howtogeek.com/331746/four-macos-server-features-that-are-now-built-in-to-high-sierra/
tldr
Advanced File Sharing Configuration
Time Machine Network Shares
Content Caching
Xcode Server Is Now Part of XCode
I'm going to switch Content Caching on my mac right now and see how it goes.
[doublepost=1517493220][/doublepost]
Four MacOS Server tools that have moved to High Sierra.
https://www.howtogeek.com/331746/four-macos-server-features-that-are-now-built-in-to-high-sierra/
tldr
Advanced File Sharing Configuration
Time Machine Network Shares
Content Caching
Xcode Server Is Now Part of XCode
[doublepost=1517493315][/doublepost]
Your mac mini based web server is NOT a professional set up. windows hardware equivalent to a mac mini will cost 1/3 the mac mini server, ???A fortune??? what is going with you?
Four MacOS Server tools that have moved to High Sierra.
https://www.howtogeek.com/331746/four-macos-server-features-that-are-now-built-in-to-high-sierra/
tldr
Advanced File Sharing Configuration
Time Machine Network Shares
Content Caching
Xcode Server Is Now Part of XCode
Every household with a couple iOS devices should turn on Content Caching.
Last edited:
This is the end of my studios use of Apple products at the professional level after 30 years. I will find an intern system that will allow us to transition our data, then phase/age out our workstations. With all creative work being equal on macs vs PC's using Adobe and Autodesk products apple has nothing but a friendlier OS as an excuse, and even that has eroded. It makes me incredibly sad to have a company ive been loyal to and even evangelized over three decades devolve like this. I predict that the effect will spread, with not complete solution to hold small photo and video studios and other businesses together on the apple platform the loyalty to the line will fade when cheeper PC's with better stats are more fiscally responsible, that will erode the base of users of phones, tablets and other service.
Apple is deprecating a significant portion of essential network services included in macOS Server this year, as outlined in a published support statement titled "Prepare for changes to macOS Server". Apple's note reads:
The note goes on to list a series of deprecated services that will be removed in a future release of macOS Server, including calendar and contact support, Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol (DHCP), Domain Name Services (DNS), mail, instant messages, virtual private networking (VPN), NetInstall, Web server, and the Wiki.
Apple assures users who have already configured any of the listed services that they will be able to use them in the spring 2018 macOS Server update, but the statement signs off by linking to a number of alternative services, including hosted services, that macOS Server users should consider as viable replacements to the features it is killing off.
Apple halted its presence in the server hardware space back in 2010, when Steve Jobs announced the company was ending its line of Xserve rackmount servers, which were first introduced in May, 2002. At the time, the two alternative server solutions to Xserve that Apple offered included the Mac Pro with Snow Leopard Server and the Mac mini with Snow Leopard Server.
Today, macOS Server version 5.5 retails for $30.99 on the App Store, as an addition to the standard desktop version of macOS High Sierra.
(Thanks, Ankush!)
Article Link: Apple to Deprecate Raft of Essential Services in macOS Server This Spring
*cheaper*
Which services does that photo/video business actively use?
calendar and contact support
Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol (DHCP)
Domain Name Services (DNS)
instant messages
virtual private networking (VPN)
NetInstall
Web server, and the Wiki
Did you know these are on High Sierra now?
Advanced File Sharing Configuration
Time Machine Network Shares
Content Caching
Xcode Server Is Now Part of XCode
Things like calendar and contacts support (and instant messages) have already been widely replaced with services like slack, or outlook, or have just fallen out of favor with the way people access their contacts on their personal/work devices that it is almost silly to have. I set them up at a 13 person firm and no one used them. If you have your own Mail server (really?), or web server it is just something that just doesn't need a mac to do.
But file sharing (this is probably what you use, and what you mean by 'transition our data'), time machine network shares (meaning all your macs can backup to-/restore from- each others macs OR the attached Hard Drives on those macs...which is pretty freaking cool!), Content Caching (no duplicate iOS update downloads on the corp. network), and of course Xcode Server now included in High Sierra. That's a solid list, you DO need a mac for these and it is now included and free...
You know what? You shouldn't presume to judge someone else's reasons for doing things. What may or may not be valid for you may not match someone else's experience. So please, wind your neck in.
Incidentally, while PC hardware may sometimes be cheap, it has a higher total cost of ownership and clearly doesn't last as long. Additionally the cost of Windows Server licensing is astronomical compared to MacOS. For people who have professional needs but who don't have corporate budgets to go along with them, the prospect of having to throw out existing investment and go with other platforms that end up vastly more expensive is horrifying, and it's this lack of loyalty from Apple that is so disappointing. MacOS Server may not be a huge proportion of their customer base, but it's bound to be a feeder for other Apple investment. Doing away with it (or emasculating it so that it's no longer practicable to be used) will cause knock on effects and drive professional customers into the arms of Microsoft.
And for those who say "Just use Linux"... well, it's great that you have the experience to build out your systems and achieve your aims that way, but you are not everyone else. Not everyone has the time to learn a brand new platform - with all the costs and project delays that entails.
One commits to a platform that appears to be stable. It's very discouraging when the vendor of that platform pulls the rug out from underneath it.
I am now in the position that I have to completely reorganise my budgets and basically transfer all my development projects into a Wintel environment. Which is a shame, as I really didn't want to have to go back to it, for all the reasons above.
Last edited:
macOS is UNIX. Follow the links on Apple’s website and nothing will change. Stop overreacting
Since you felt the need to copy and paste this same list of items in 4 posts, I have to ask:
Does that mean Mac OS users can finally configure permissions inheritance on shared folders without having to buy Server? Even non-server versions of Windows allow users to properly configure permissions inheritance.
Suppose you want to set up a shared folder where everyone in your family or everyone in the same department at work can edit and save changes to all files in the folder. And you want this to apply automatically to newly created files in that folder so you don't have to manually update the permissions every time someone creates a new file.
So if I:
1. Enable sharing for a folder
2. Give read/write permissions to some users for that folder
3. Create a new file within that folder using my user account
Would the other users then be able to edit and save changes to that file?
Previously in Mac OS, the "Apply permissions to enclosed items" would only update permissions for items that are currently in the folder, which is not true permissions inheritance. When a new file is created, only the person who created the file can save changes to it, regardless of the permissions that were set on the folder. Are you saying this is no longer the case in High Sierra?
Last edited:
Have you ever used macOS Server and if so, have you ever analyzed or even read this famous but quite stupid list? If not, why are you still mentioning it? What’s even more interesting to me, why are you participating in this discussion? To help any of us? The list is a publicly available Apple support document and its value is not higher or lower than any of Apple’s support documents. For very good reasons they do not mention in the list what cannot be replaced from macOS Server or be done without it anymore.macOS is UNIX. Follow the links on Apple’s website and nothing will change. Stop overreacting
[doublepost=1517561743][/doublepost]
Your defeatistic outsourcing approach perhaps because of lack of passion, knowledge, human and/or time resources or whatsoever must not be generalized as it is most probably neither based on a worldwide research nor would it even then be of absolute value. The Internet and TCP/IP were by design made to decentralize. Those of you who like to participate in its re-centralization can do whatever they want but should leave us our proper freedom to self-host with means of our proper choice. And again, you currently need macOS Server if your want to use e. g. Dovecot with the XAPPLEPUSHSERVICE extension. You do not want to use and maintain your proper mail server? Then don’t!
Not paranoid. I am a consultant and those calendar invites sometimes contain files for discussions that are company secrets for my clients. I am bound by non disclosure agreement to not place those types of data in any third party system. Unless I want to trigger a process of creating an exception to the NDA, and my clients having to go through vetting the external systems where their data is going.
Keep on using it then if you need a push certificate. They’re not removing that functionality?
The deprecation process takes a few years to ensure you have time to switch over. You can look at what’s being posted to help you solve the issues you’re facing.
Or you can be outraged and get angry at people on the internet
[doublepost=1517646689][/doublepost]
This will fix your problem: https://superuser.com/questions/277775/ensuring-new-files-in-a-directory-belong-to-the-group
You need to learn and use Docker. It will save you from the indignity of Windows Server and you won't have to throw out your existing Mac hardware.
"Adapt or be left behind" is the terse phrase here.
I started looking at Docker based on your comment. So, quick question: are you using it? And if so, for what app-platform?
Yes, for everything. Nginx for a web server, SQL Server (Linux version so better performance), Node.js and .NET Core microservices, GitLab. It's the way of the future. We are no longer limited by macOS as an operating system. We can install anything we need in well managed Docker containers.
Why then do you need to run macOS/own a Mac at all (for those services)? I guess you don't, and that's the whole point why ditching server is an incredibly short-sighted move from Apple.
Keep on using it then if you need a push certificate. They’re not removing that functionality?
The deprecation process takes a few years to ensure you have time to switch over. You can look at what’s being posted to help you solve the issues you’re facing.
Or you can be outraged and get angry at people on the internet
[doublepost=1517646689][/doublepost]
This will fix your problem: https://superuser.com/questions/277775/ensuring-new-files-in-a-directory-belong-to-the-group
Something seemingly unrelated:
Sorry Xenc, Next Bus London (in your sig) has been 'deprecated' a while ago as it was 32-bit only. 'Bus Times' is the future.
While I wouldn't go that far, absent easy service infrastructure on Macs, Apple's professional workstation users are at the mercy of service infrastructure provided by other vendors. It works for now, but if M$ wants to put on the squeeze, they'll mess up compatibility; and if the Linux folks think it's not the One True Way and/or not interesting anymore, they'll let their support for anything Apple-specific languish.
The least this breaks (AFAIK) is use of Apple Push Notification Service for Calendar, etc, since from what I've read, there's no non-Apple-approved software that will be able to get a certificate to use that.
And Apple's migration notes have zero info on IMAP/SMTP migration. Gee, thanks. I gather that functionality actually consists (from wikipedia) of:
SMTP (Postfix)
POP and IMAP (Dovecot)
SSL/TLS encryption (OpenSSL)
Mailing lists (Mailman)
Webmail (RoundCube)
Junk mail filtering (SpamAssassin)
Virus detection (ClamAV)
Ok, I can install those from MacPorts (except that it doesn't have RoundCube or SpamAssassin, so going that route, one would have to figure out SquirrelMail and SpamProbe instead, and given a comparison I saw, I doubt the users would be impressed by the downgrade from RoundCube to SquirrelMail), and look at the still-present config files from an earlier Server version...but that's still pretty ugly, esp. getting all that to work together, never mind what there was in the way of a GUI to control it, such as that was.
Now fortunately, I wasn't using that in the first place. But if I had been, I'd be pretty annoyed with all the work involved to install, configure, and integrate all those bits.