Apple to Introduce New Final Cut Pro on April 12th?

[Kevin Monahan]

Unless you have an extreme PC...Adobe makes no sense (unless you are using the Quadro nVidia cards in a Mac Pro). Sure, the Merc engine increases performance for a few transitions and filters....but rendering is still necessary in MOST cases!

Premiere Pro makes sense in a lot of cases for Mac users. It makes the most sense for After Effects artists, like yourself, as you can dynamic link directly to After Effects from the Premiere Pro timeline. As you pointed out, Macs work great with Premiere Pro and the NVIDIA Quadro 4000 card. More and more cards are being supported as time moves forward. Want a certain card to add Mercury Playback engine hardware acceleration? Make a request here: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

Not sure what you mean by "unless you have an extreme PC, Adobe makes no sense?" Yes, you need more RAM and a decent NVIDIA card to make Premiere Pro really fly on a PC-it's a 64 bit application-but even modest PCs do just fine with Premiere Pro. If Apple puts out a 64 bit application, you can bet that you should be looking at upgrading your Mac with a lot more RAM, more cores on the GPU, etc., as well. Need more info on tuning your system with Premiere Pro? Watch this: http://tv.adobe.com/watch/learn-premiere-pro-cs5/optimize-a-computer-for-mercury-playback-engine/

You wrote that rendering is still necessary in most cases. Really? What kind of system are you on? I've never had to render, even on my '09 MacBook Pro with no NVIDIA card and the Mercury Playback Engine in software mode.

You say that CUDA accelerates only a "few" video filters and transitions? There are a lot more than that! Upgrade to Premiere Pro 5.0.3 and you'll see the following GPU accelerated effects:

- Alpha Adjust
- Basic 3D
- Black & White
- Brightness & Contrast
- Color Balance (RGB)
- Color Pass
- Color Replace
- Crop
- Drop Shadow
- Extract
- Fast Color Corrector
- Feather Edges
- Gamma Correction
- Garbage Matte (4, 8, 16)
- Gaussian Blur
- Horizontal Flip
- Levels
- Luma Corrector
- Luma Curve
- Noise
- Proc Amp
- RGB Curves
- RGB Color Corrector
- Sharpen
- Three-way Color Corrector
- Timecode
- Tint
- Track Matte
- Ultra Keyer
- Video Limiter
- Vertical Flip

- Cross Dissolve
- Dip to Black
- Dip to White

I suggest you give the app another spin with a proper machine.

Best,
Kevin

 

[realitymonkey]

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Really what sort of clients ?

Some people do more than use Final Cut for making YouTube videos. FYI.

Yup I know especially considering I have nearly 12 years in broadcast TV delivering to every major channel in both the UK and US.

 

[marmotmammal]

'hope it's good!

As with many FCP users, I am very accustomed to the entire FCP workflow. The editing is awesome and fuss-free. Of course, there are always complaints. Compressor constantly gets low grades. Transcoding is painful to some. Nevertheless, FCP can activate multiple events so the computer can process these things unattended as I frolic in the park or do other things.

I've tried Premiere Pro and Sony Vegas. I have Premiere Elements 9 on hand if I need native AVCHD editing. But FCP has the guts I prefer. It's akin to my excursion from Pro Tools to Logic Pro. Ultimately I returned to Pro Tools for the editing features, irrespectively of the realtime bounce.

'hoping that the FCP upgrade next week is stellar. It will be painful to switch to another NLE.

 

[michaelflynn]

Constant crashes on a Windows machine, eh? I don't see that from feedback I've been hearing. I'm wondering about the specs of those Windows machines you are speaking of (unsupported video card, or not enough RAM perhaps?). Drop by our forum with your issues. Let's see if we can help you troubleshoot your issues: http://forums.adobe.com/community/premiere/premierepro_current

Yes, many of the crashes I've experienced have to do with Matrox cards, but not all of them. My boss is on the Abode and Matrox beta teams, so I will let him deal with the feedback. I think the machines are primarily i7's with 8+GB RAM on Windows 7 64-bit...I don't know for sure though, I'm not well versed in Windows based machines.

 

[Soura2112]

What I want

First off I'm not a full time pro, I do about 30% pro work the rest is for family and friends who I don't charge cause it's usually simple. That being said I want to get more pro work. I'm in the process if buying a new HD Cam so I want Blu Ray ability. With buying a new video camera and hopefully the new FCP if it meets my standards will be an expensive month since I don't have an internal or external Blu Ray drive yet and I want full use of Blu Ray, even if we must go with LaCie or whatever Blu Ray drive you like.
Even for my non pro videos of my dogs I want Blu Ray use it's that simple, 1080p, not 720 files to run through iTunes then to my Apple TV, only way to stream videos at my house at the moment outside of iPad and iPhone. I could pay to connect my 360 and sadly no PS3 to Mac stream. (I may be wrong on my home streaming so be nice please).
Most of my pro video is sports and some weddings. They all want a disc, not all want Blu Ray but I want the option for my clients.
Blu Ray makes just makes sense for all the 1080p cams out there, even some $300-$400 cams run 1080p now. Then you have the new 3D cams, could careless though I'm sure there are some who want 3D since they purchased the camera (again not me!).
Apple should at least be able to pull off these new standards, not saying 3D is a standard though again it's out there so they should be on top of it.
Oh and 64 please! I want to use all my cores!
Many named everything else I want plus my rant was longer then expected, so thanks to those who covered my other wants.

 

[Kevin Monahan]

Yes, many of the crashes I've experienced have to do with Matrox cards, but not all of them. My boss is on the Abode and Matrox beta teams, so I will let him deal with the feedback. I think the machines are primarily i7's with 8+GB RAM on Windows 7 64-bit...I don't know for sure though, I'm not well versed in Windows based machines.

Ah, Matrox cards, eh? Sounds like it might be the culprit. The machines you mention are definitely up to the task. Make sure you are updated to 5.0.3. That fixes a lot of problems.

Thanks for the feedback Michael.

 

[lars steenhoff]

For the time being, the new ati macbook pro's won't work as fast with premiere pro, as they could have when premiere would use openCL, instead of Cuda.
Probably in the next version I guess, as openCL was not quite there yet when premiere CS5 was developed

 

[11thIndian]

I mean 3D objects with materials, textures, shaders, better lighting, better shadows, no crashing several times a day...
3D like ProAnimator FX or Kinemac at least. No plugin required.

Hey I'm always one for adding more functionality to a program, but I'm no longer naive enough to think that everything I could ever want will come bundled in the Studio. Plug-ins are an essential part of every pro product. When a developer can spend 100% of their time delivering a single feature REALLY well [and get paid for it], it will always be better than what the basic software can provide.

The best thing Apple can do is provide a solid and powerful base that developers can build their tools on.

How come no one complains that After Effects doesn't come bundled with Trapcode Particular?

As to your crashing issues. Obviously I can't say. I do have Motion crash occasionally, but it's no more or less frequent than a similarly complicated AE comp on my system.

 

[afrowq]

This is Bowl *****!!! Come on man....I see these claims with absolutely NO, ZERO proof to back it up...Links? Pics? Video???? IF anything, MORE people have joined the FCP camp...because more people than EVER are buying Macs! Even though Adobe and Avid are cross platform, the affordability of FCP is a real bonus. Everyone I know that uses FCP and has been using FCP has ZERO interest in flipping. Unless you have an extreme PC...Adobe makes no sense (unless you are using the Quadro nVidia cards in a Mac Pro). Sure, the Merc engine increases performance for a few transitions and filters....but rendering is still necessary in MOST cases! Today's speed of the new Macs....MBP, iMacs, Mac Pros...makes the transition from AVC, XDCam, DVCPro, etc to Pro-Res, is actually a very speedy process. Even Canon stepped up last spring with a plug in to increase transcode speeds almost a 1,000% (used to take a minute or two to transform...now done in 10 seconds or less!!!). Once in Pro Res, editing is an absolute breeze...a cake walk, easy as pie Especially if you have a recent generation Mac from the last couple of years.

Now...that said, absolutely, I totally agree improvements can be made. As mentioned many times....media management and better integration between other programs in the suite. However, being a long time FCP user, I'm "used" to the export/share option and don't find it too difficult.

Motion is the program I would like to see take a big step forward. I am also a heavy Adobe user and have the entire CS5 Production bundle...but NOT for Premier...I solely use PhotoShop and After Effects. AE has been my go to animated title compositor. Motion, while decent...is certainly behind the eight ball in comparison to Avid and AE for these tasks.

However...most, if not ALL of the pros I know that have been using FCP continue to do so....and there are more motion pictures, BIG ones...this year, edited on FCP than I can remember in years past. Pulling this BS out of your arse is crap. The iToy phenomenon, in my very humble opinion will actually HELP the Pro Apps...as Apple is making more money than EVER!!! This will afford them the expertise they need to develop the pro apps...more so than they've ever been able to do in the past. Keep in mind...for these iToys to be great, they need content....and again, IMHO...I think Apple knows this, and would be happy if every app, movie, song, etc...that resides in iTunes, Mac Store, App Store, etc....was created WITH their soft/hardware as well. Again, just my opinion....Apple won't shoot themselves and the entire creative community in the foot....just when they've becoming the HIGHEST gaining computer sales platform in the world!!! They're selling more computers (MB, MBP, MBair, MP, iMacs) then EVER...and I attribute that somewhat to the excellent user experience so many folks have had with their "iToys". You gotta figure some of those folks will be "Pro" creative guys. And enticed they will be (my Yoda impersonation) by the hardware and software that Apple offers....so if anything, there is Growth in the Pro sector...hardware and software both. NOT a mass exodus. Again...if you truly have proof that "All those Pros have already left Mac"...I'm all ears. If anything, they've made significant gains. Hence the reason AVID has DECREASED their pricing from the astronomical rates it used to cost...and the proprietary rigs you had to have to run the program.

Sorry for the rant. But what you've stated is absolutely NOT true my friend. Period. And THAT is a fact! If you're deciding whether or not to stick with FCP, cool...fine to make that point. Don't make up BS about other "Pros" and their Post Workflow. Other than the BBC switching to Premier, I can think of NO other real, true professionals that have abandoned FCP because it's lacking. It's still a VERY powerful program. Getting older, several places to shine it up, but it still does the job and does it well.

J

I don't need links, videos, etc. to prove my point. I know it's the case, because I've seen it with my own eyes. And frankly I don't care to impress you with pointless links and statistics. I am a professional, and I work with professionals, and several of them have already switched to Premiere. That, my friend, is a fact, and it's all I need.

 

[Mr. Retrofire]

Let me be clear - FCS needs a robust blu-ray authoring feature.

Useless without error correcting reference hardware/software. No one has seen this reference hardware or drivers for it in the Apple environment. Only a few specialized companies use the expensive reference hardware for true BD-authoring. It is the same situation as on the Audio-CD market.

Btw, Sonys BluPrint 6 software costs 80.000 US$. And this is just the software. I do not think we will see similar features in FCP or FCS.

 

[11thIndian]

I don't need links, videos, etc. to prove my point. I know it's the case, because I've seen it with my own eyes. And frankly I don't care to impress you with pointless links and statistics. I am a professional, and I work with professionals, and several of them have already switched to Premiere. That, my friend, is a fact, and it's all I need.

If your sector of the business has decided to move to Premier because it works for them, awesome- but don't paint it as an industry trent. Cause I've seen zero migration from FCP to PP in Toronto post houses. Pro editing is still a two horse race: AVID and FCP.

And I can't help but think how ironic it will be if the new FCS will be built on AV Foundation, which was pioneered on your hated "itoys".

http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2011/02/a-new-64-bit-final-cut-pro/

 

[charlituna]

I've posted several predictions over the past few months throughout this tread at Cinema5D:

http://cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=25464

I took a look at the post and while I think your ideas are well thought out and very 'Apple' there are a few points that I disagree with.

First off the notion that Apple has to match QuickTime on Windows and Mac. I don't see that they do so I won't be shocked if they don't. Or they might do another QT Pro (but i doubt they would let you use your old QT7 key)

Also on the whole timeline issue. I don't see it as Apple changing one for the other. What I see is the user having a choice. They did this in iMovie so why not in FCS. Let folks work the way they feel is most efficient whether that is single line, flowchart etc. Same with how some of the tools function. Leave the old way and add the new one. Maybe both on the screen or perhaps a preference that allows you to use 'classic tools'.

I'm not sure I agree with the idea of them adding Aperture to the package, but I agree that they could and should have some kind of catalog program or mode. Something that could perhaps bridge the components and even perhaps output from other programs like Premiere, Maya etc even Logic Studio. It might even allow for importing and logging without having to open Final Cut and allow you to put in Meta data like location, names of people in shot, etc. Stuff that would make that iMovie People Search etc viable tools.

And while I like the idea of a plugin store I'm not sure it would be separate from the Mac App Store, particularly if this version of FCS required at least Snow Leo. even if it was its own face I could definitely see Apple putting it into that pay system.

And one thing you didn't mention that I think is plausible is incorporating FCServer into the set rather than as a stand alone sku. Perhaps not within the programs but put that disk in the box as well. if Lion is any example, Apple seems to be getting away from separating Server functionality and having that software in the box as well could help those on the fence about switching. Especially if the whole thing was no more that the current $999 (a little less would be even better)

Apple has been too interested in their entertainment business to worry about their "pro" line (hardware/software).

Fact is that there was really no where they could go without a comp,tee rewrite and that is expensive. Those iToys everyone comp,ains about are likely funding said development, either directly or by covering daily costs to insure that Apple doesn't need to shift funds away from the project

Like Apple! Macs have no blu ray disc tray, only DVD. I can not understand that!

It's easy. The average person isn't watching blu-rays on a 27 inch or less screen. They get them for their big 50-60 inch TVs. And the sales of Macs are rising despite the lack. True professionals do what is needed to get the job done. Including buying a stand alone drive and 3rd party software if the simple menus in DVD Studio Pro are not enough

 

[afrowq]

If your sector of the business has decided to move to Premier because it works for them, awesome- but don't paint it as an industry trent. Cause I've seen zero migration from FCP to PP in Toronto post houses. Pro editing is still a two horse race: AVID and FCP.

And I can't help but think how ironic it will be if the new FCS will be built on AV Foundation, which was pioneered on your hated "itoys".

http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2011/02/a-new-64-bit-final-cut-pro/

Never said it was an industry-wide trent (sic). I said "a lot of professionals" have made the switch.

Thanks.

 

[11thIndian]

Never said it was an industry-wide trent (sic). I said "a lot of professionals" have made the switch.

Thanks.

When what you meant to say was, "A lot of professionals I know.".

Your welcome.

 

[afrowq]

I use FCP and am VERY hesitant to go back to Premiere. Haven't used it since Premiere 6.0, and definitely do NOT want to go back. I have tens of thousands of dollars invested in Apple and FCP, and it would be a huge pain to abandon them. But I absolutely will jump ship if the next update to FCP doesn't show me that Apple is still paying attention to the professional users that initially were the bread and butter of the company.

 

[11thIndian]

I use FCP and am VERY hesitant to go back to Premiere. Haven't used it since Premiere 6.0, and definitely do NOT want to go back. I have tens of thousands of dollars invested in Apple and FCP, and it would be a huge pain to abandon them. But I absolutely will jump ship if the next update to FCP doesn't show me that Apple is still paying attention to the professional users that initially were the bread and butter of the company.

Although the only thing that will ultimately matter is what Apple releases on Tuesday, if you want to get an inkling as to why FCP development has been at loggerheads since 2009, do yourself a favour and read a couple articles from Philip Hodgett's blog on FCP, QTkit, Cocoa, and it's unfortunate collision with OSX's 64 bit platform development.

http://www.philiphodgetts.com/category/technology/apple-pro-apps/

 

[Magrathea]

Youre aware the newest mbp (high end) 15, and 17 haveva 1gb graphics memory, right?

Yes but not Nvidia so I don't think they can use the CUDA think. correct my if I'm wrong where PP gurus.

 

[Magrathea]

Close, but not quite right.

The Mercury Playback Engine is composed of 3 things:
1. 64 Bit Application
2. Multithreaded Application
3. Processing of some things using CUDA (an NVIDIA card)

If you don't have a CUDA based video card, you still have the Mercury Playback Engine (software) available. What you probably meant to say is that hardware acceleration for the Mercury Playback Engine is not available unless it's a CUDA card.

More info: http://blogs.adobe.com/premiereprot...y-playback-engine-and-adobe-premiere-pro.html

Best,
Kevin

I can attest to mercury working on both my MBPs 2007 and mid 2008 (8gigs of ram) but add a fast color correction effect on AVCHD or 7D footage and you gotta render - machines grind to a halt, footage not playable at all. Transcode to Prores first and you're golden.

Of course most people will get newer quad core machines but laptop wise apple doesn't have a 1Gig CUDA card for any MBP right?

Also, I have seen tests for people with fancy Quattro 4300fx cards ($1500) NS 6 OR 8 core machines where they turn on and off the hardware acceleration and didn't see much of a difference not a 10x better / $1500 difference. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

 

[MattInOz]

Although the only thing that will ultimately matter is what Apple releases on Tuesday, if you want to get an inkling as to why FCP development has been at loggerheads since 2009, do yourself a favour and read a couple articles from Philip Hodgett's blog on FCP, QTkit, Cocoa, and it's unfortunate collision with OSX's 64 bit platform development.

http://www.philiphodgetts.com/category/technology/apple-pro-apps/

Which has been in development longer FCP overhaul or iPhone?
AV foundation was overkill for iOS from the outset so that would suggest is was always intended for FCP.

His articles have a funny assumption that the OS team has the most secrecy.
Surely the more valuable projects Like FCP have greater access to information and the greater control over when the broader company gets to see their work. Sure they would have been trumped to iPhone team who would seem to have free reign. The CoreOS team would seem like they are the most open their job is to turn the private API's developed by the product teams into to a public developer platform. A lot of their work is even open source.

 

[MACRUS]

Not again..

NAB is for broadcast professionals - its doubtful there will be computer releases here.

where did you get such a non existing info? Apple has not attend the NAB for years now.

I'm not trolling, this is an honest question. But isn't a Final Cut pretty much worthless for commercial use without a way to put the results on Blu-Ray?

not everyone will agree with you but I do. not that all the work I do needs to be on blu-ray but some does and because DVDSP has not seen a real update since 2005 I think. I just had to ditch it. along with the outdated apps. I got Adobe's Creative Suite.

 

[IceMacMac]

Everything depends on your work and needs right? For me...I'm short format and tweak every frame.

In terms of full disclosure I own FCP 4 suite and CS 5 master suite and own all the major Apple products (hardware and software). I also run Windows 7 in bootcamp.

Short format work is all about After Effects. Motion is 5 years behind and offers an incomplete feature set in comparison. After Effects marries up well with the tools from big 3d players, like Maxon and C4D. Its a great pipeline.

I'll watch with interest the announcements next week, but the release of an "iMovie Pro" won't interest me...and it seems like that's where Apple is headed. They now are fixated on Consumers Lite and Consumers Plus.

Apple is also doing everything to push me away from it's platform, with it's anti-Flash crusade, and it's complete inability to support Any (I mean ANY of the top 5-7) professional GPUs.

For the serious Pro Apple is living on borrowed time and the Steve Jobs reality-distortion field is weakening. Redmond is calling. Increasingly serious content professionals are listening. I never imagined these words coming from my mouth. But it's the truth.

 

[Digital Skunk]

Everything depends on your work and needs right? For me...I'm short format and tweak every frame.

In terms of full disclosure I own FCP 4 suite and CS 5 master suite and own all the major Apple products (hardware and software). I also run Windows 7 in bootcamp.

Short format work is all about After Effects. Motion is 5 years behind and offers an incomplete feature set in comparison. After Effects marries up well with the tools from big 3d players, like Maxon and C4D. Its a great pipeline.

I'll watch with interest the announcements next week, but the release of an "iMovie Pro" won't interest me...and it seems like that's where Apple is headed. They now are fixated on Consumers Lite and Consumers Plus.

Apple is also doing everything to push me away from it's platform, with it's anti-Flash crusade, and it's complete inability to support Any (I mean ANY of the top 5-7) professional GPUs.

For the serious Pro Apple is living on borrowed time and the Steve Jobs reality-distortion field is weakening. Redmond is calling. Increasingly serious content professionals are listening. I never imagined these words coming from my mouth. But it's the truth.

Coming from a full-time, multimedia/journalism/photography/etc professional I have to totally and completely


AGREE!

I've seen a huge decline in Apple's interest in the professional market, and I don't even mean high end pro, we're talking SMB and SOHO type stuff here. The last revision of FCP was just not worth it unless you were buying new or buying to ensure you didn't have any left over bugs.

Avid Media Composer and Premier have gained massive leads on FCP in terms of workflow and speed. Once the younger college students start seeing how fast they can delivery a product with Adobe or Avid, they'll start wondering why the small houses switched to FCP in the first place, and start wanting to learn what the industry is working with . . . Avid, After Effects, ProTools, etc. And the iMovie Pro will be left to indie filmmakers and consumers with deep pockets

** disclaimer ** I have nothing against the indie segment . . . I am in it and love it. But Apple makes it harder with every update to justify staying with a company that has too much on it's plate, and not enough staff to keep up with the rest of the market.

Apple will always claim that "no one's buying it" rather than, "we didn't make it marketable and desirable" when they go to axe some hardware or software title.

 

[mBox]

...Everything depends on your work and needs right....In terms of full disclosure I own FCP 4 suite and CS 5 master suite and own all the major Apple products (hardware and software). I also run Windows 7 in bootcamp...

Pretty close to my workflow but add a few power-house BOXX/Dells for Maya and Renderman

Short format work is all about After Effects. Motion is 5 years behind and offers an incomplete feature set in comparison. After Effects marries up well with the tools from big 3d players, like Maxon and C4D. Its a great pipeline.

Tru dat!!

Apple is also doing everything to push me away from it's platform, with it's anti-Flash crusade, and it's complete inability to support Any (I mean ANY of the top 5-7) professional GPUs.

Its too bad you feel that way. Were more in tune towards Apple now since Adobe went 64bit and the promise of Apples core pro apps following soon (off to NAB soon). To add I had to work on a Flash project (wear way too many hats here) and can see why Flash is avoided. I have few friends that are pro Flash/ColdFusion/old code and they too can see the problems with dealing with Flash. The good thing is that current project is targeted for PC touch screen system.

For the serious Pro Apple is living on borrowed time and the Steve Jobs reality-distortion field is weakening. Redmond is calling. Increasingly serious content professionals are listening. I never imagined these words coming from my mouth. But it's the truth.

And again its too bad you feel that way. The good thing is, even if you do stray away from Apple tech, your never going get away from the inundated drone of iToys
All kidding aside, its up to you where you money/resources go for supporting hardware/software. Ive been back and forth from Mac > SGI > Linux > Windows > Mac/Windows for the last 17 years and still to date, Apple is by far the strongest in my field

 

[edoates]

'

Wake up and smell the coffee... BR is the main distribution method for paid HD content in the world. Also the quality is far better then with any download service.

And I'm going to point out again: 1080p BluRay movies are about 30GB each for a full length movie, not counting the "extras." Even if Netflix et al allowed such quality downloads, most ISPs have a maximum monthly bandwidth limit that is not prominently mentioned when you sign up, but exists none the less (for Comcast Cable, it's 250GB).

If you have only DSL, that's not a big issue because at 3mbs or so, you might not be able to download 250GB in a month ;-) But at 20 to 50mbs with cable, or if Google's 1gbs fiber connections work out, that's only 10 movies a month.

I'd love to see network delivery of everything - cancel Directv, etc., but with the extant bandwidth limitations, I don't think it happening.

BluRay lives.

Eddie O

 

[RebootD]

This. Netflix HD is nice and even making my own legal copies are decent but they still don't compare to BRD + uncompressed/ DTSMA audio.

And I'm going to point out again: 1080p BluRay movies are about 30GB each for a full length movie, not counting the "extras." Even if Netflix et al allowed such quality downloads, most ISPs have a maximum monthly bandwidth limit that is not prominently mentioned when you sign up, but exists none the less (for Comcast Cable, it's 250GB).

If you have only DSL, that's not a big issue because at 3mbs or so, you might not be able to download 250GB in a month ;-) But at 20 to 50mbs with cable, or if Google's 1gbs fiber connections work out, that's only 10 movies a month.

I'd love to see network delivery of everything - cancel Directv, etc., but with the extant bandwidth limitations, I don't think it happening.

BluRay lives.

Eddie O