Apple to Let EU Users Set New Defaults for Multiple Apps, Delete App Store, Photos, Messages and More

[black_knight]

US won’t pass legislation that forces competing corporations to get along when consumer choice already exists. If you wanted usb-c and customizability before iPhone 15 Pro, you’ve had Android as an option for years.

And this is how it should be. Vote with your dollars and buy the Android trash if you so desire.

 

[SanderEvers]

To have , for example, Google Photos, to behave identically as if native Photos was installed is likely to be a huge engineering effort for both Google and Apple. Apps at the moment call an API, sure, but Google will have to implement that API, and Apple will have to deal with issues arising from incompatibility because Google Photos may implement things differently to Photos.

APIs are basically rules how things should work. They define parameters, names and results that are expected. So basically an app that wants to manage photo's needs to implement the PhotosApis offered by the OS. This is basically the same thing in any OS currently in existence.

 

[black_knight]

I can only see this as a positive change and one that will quickly spread beyond the EU as other countries, and iPhone users within them, ask "Why can't we have this?".

I see it ending with a MacOS-like experience. No reason iOS can't remain as secure as MacOS.

And hopefully it will push Apple to improve their own apps. I'd be delighted if the best app for every option was an Apple one but unfortunately it isn't.

It's my phone. Let me decide.

Go create a phone. You decide.

 

[tmaciak]

Meaning, businesses will rip off the customers, collect their data und sell it. **** all protection Apple was giving end users - for the profits x_X

I would not be so harsh, but yes, it's exactly what irritates me in Samsung phones comparing to Apple phones is, that if you want to use most of "Samsung services" you will find, that service is actually provided by some external partner and you have to give consent to this partner to use your data, even if you don't know this company and don't know if you can trust them. And if there will be some problem with this partner, Samsung will give a s$%^ about that.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

That seems like a fantasy to me. Where does a new connector come from without investment? If Samsung comes up with a new and superior technology, does the EU force everyone to license it from Samsung?!? Hah!

We're left to rely on the USB consortium. And development by committee overseen by politicians isn't something with track record for greatness.

The fact is we have millions of other devices that have multiple ports. How was thunderbolt standardized again?

Remember this is a charging port standard, USB isn’t the standard, but the type C port with USB power delivery.

No data protocol has been standardized.

The firms that are part of the USB-IF consortium(Apple, Samsung, HP, intel, Microsoft, Texas Instruments etc) can invent a new port, present it to EU and it can become the new charging port standard.

If they want to go powerless they can.
If the group wants to implement a new port together, they can.

And untill they do this directive will automatically update every time the USB-IF updates their standard. When USB-C 4.1 is released, then it will be released, when USB power delivery 3.5 or 5.0 gets released it will automatically update to this as the standard.

 

[Havoc035]

No. If users make an active choice to install the dominant app then there's no foul play. If Apple prevent you choosing that dominant app and insist you have to use their inferior POS app that's monopolist behaviour.

I'll remind you that most of the world would still be using Internet Explorer if the EU hadn't stepped in, and Mac users would still be in limbo with an Internet Explorer that didn't support everything and no other good option that worked with corporate apps either. This is literally the same scenario.

Apple is not preventing you from installing another app. You can find and install any browser easily via the App Store (for now). In fact Chrome appears to be pretty heavily marketed there. Personally I don't get why you would use spyware as a browser, but you can if you want to.

As for the IE case, we're heading in that same direction now. Chromium based browsers and in particular Chrome are the new IE. Due to their dominance webpages work less well or not at all on other browsers. That's simply not healthy for the web. So pushing more users from Safari into Chromium browsers and making those even bigger is a bad outcome of this legislation.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Apple is not preventing you from installing another app. You can find and install any browser easily via the App Store (for now). In fact Chrome appears to be pretty heavily marketed there. Personally I don't get why you would use spyware as a browser, but you can if you want to.

As for the IE case, we're heading in that same direction now. Chromium based browsers and in particular Chrome are the new IE. Due to their dominance webpages work less well or not at all on other browsers. That's simply not healthy for the web. So pushing more users from Safari into Chromium browsers and making those even bigger is a bad outcome of this legislation.

It’s not the legislatures job to save Safari from being outcompeted by chrome.

If safari only exists because Apple enforces it’s existence as it’s incapable of competing, then it shouldn’t exist in the first place.

 

[MilaM]

As for the IE case, we're heading in that same direction now. Chromium based browsers and in particular Chrome are the new IE. Due to their dominance webpages work less well or not at all on other browsers. That's simply not healthy for the web. So pushing more users from Safari into Chromium browsers and making those even bigger is a bad outcome of this legislation.

Chrome dominance is a different problem and can be addressed separately. Let's see what the outcome of the anti-trust case against Google in the US will be. It could well be, that Google will have to give up some control over the browser engine as a result of the pending ruling.

 

[MilaM]

We're left to rely on the USB consortium. And development by committee overseen by politicians isn't something with track record for greatness.

Where do you get the idea from that politicians are overseeing the USB Implementers Forum? It is governed by representatives from the industry and Apple has one of seven seats on the board.

 

[MilaM]

What irritates me, that EU is hypocritical in approach. Is riding Apple everywhere, but here is Opera, which set itself as default without my consent and here are my Samsung phones, bloated with Samsung apps which I can't uninstall, only disable or the same for telecom apps, when I buy phone with contract.

Apple does not have to allow what Samsung is doing. They have to give the user a choice. The law does not state, that Apple needs to provide API that would allow apps to make themselves the default.

 

[Havoc035]

It’s not the legislatures job to save Safari from being outcompeted by chrome.

If safari only exists because Apple enforces it’s existence as it’s incapable of competing, then it shouldn’t exist in the first place.

The outcome of legislation introduced to break a so called monopoly shouldn't be to further boost a monopoly in another area.

Apple doesn't enforce anyone to use Safari. You can switch anytime you like. Also, if you feel that smaller players "incapable of competing" shouldn't exist, we might as well give the internet to Google as a whole. Because why use another search engine? Or another Maps app? There's tons of smaller offers there that face hardship over lack of data and Google's monopoly.

Chrome dominance is a different problem and can be addressed separately. Let's see what the outcome of the anti-trust case against Google in the US will be. It could well be, that Google will have to give up some control over the browser engine as a result of the pending ruling.

So my point is that I don't think we should address that separately. When introducing legislation you should consider the likely outcomes broadly. Further boosting Google's monopoly can't be the outcome of forcing Apple to make changes.

 

[surferfb]

So you'd agree there should be clubs, hotels, sport events that women are not allowed in, as long as there are other places women are allowed in?
Or places white people are allowed but not black people?

I suspect you don't think that, and think these places should be FORCED BY LAW to allow open and equal access to all, irrespective of what their owners want?

So then why should it be any different for technology companies?

Because what phone you buy is a choice, not an immutable characteristic of your DNA.

Wow.

 

[MilaM]

So my point is that I don't think we should address that separately. When introducing legislation you should consider the likely outcomes broadly. Further boosting Google's monopoly can't be the outcome of forcing Apple to make changes.

Sounds reasonable. But then politicians would have to pick their favourite browser for each platform, which is also not a good idea and kind of against the idea of competition.

 

[surferfb]

Apple does not have to allow what Samsung is doing. They have to give the user a choice. The law does not state, that Apple needs to provide API that would allow apps to make themselves the default.

Apple already gives people a choice. My Mother in Law has had Chrome as her default on her iPhone for years now, and I promise you she is not a technical user - as an example she takes screenshots of pictures people send her rather than hitting the download button or long pressing to save 🤣.

What the law says is “people who haven’t changed the default choice has to be presented with a confusing screen giving them many options”

Again, all this is going to do is harm users’ battery life and increase Chrome’s market share because it’s the only browser most users have heard of. So, harming iOS user privacy in the name of “competition”.

And why? It actually doesn’t make any sense. Make Apple be able to change the default? Sure, I guess. I wouldn’t write that law, but you do you EU. But what problem is the browser choice screen actually solving? Or attempting to solve? Why can’t users be trusted to change the default on their own? And why does it matter?

It’s like they determined it was an issue in the 90s with Microsoft and don’t realize the world has changed.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

The outcome of legislation introduced to break a so called monopoly shouldn't be to further boost a monopoly in another area.

Apple doesn't enforce anyone to use Safari. You can switch anytime you like.

First the EU haven’t made any legislation to break any kind of monopoly, but introduced legislation that intents to make the market more competitive. Apple is enforcing every iOS user to use safari as it’s the WebKit engine every other browser uses on iOS, they can’t use alternative browsers.

If Edge, brave and opera wants to use chromium and Firefox wants to use the gecko engine they should be allowed to do that. And if this results in WebKit or safari losing market share then it might be it was not competitive at all and artificially protected by apples mandate on iOS.

Also, if you feel that smaller players "incapable of competing" shouldn't exist, we might as well give the internet to Google as a whole. Because why use another search engine? Or another Maps app? There's tons of smaller offers there that face hardship over lack of data and Google's monopoly.

Google is already targeted by the same and other legislation for being anti competitive. The fact other offers are struggling because of Apple and google being anti competitive is a big issue as it distorts the market.

So my point is that I don't think we should address that separately. When introducing legislation you should consider the likely outcomes broadly. Further boosting Google's monopoly can't be the outcome of forcing Apple to make changes.

It’s not the legislatures job to pick winners and losers.

Just because google might benefit doesn’t justify Apple having their browser monopoly on iOS.

Just how google isn’t allowed to dictate chrome as the standard browser on android phones

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Apple already gives people a choice. My Mother in Law has had Chrome as her default on her iPhone for years now, and I promise you she is not a technical user - as an example she takes screenshots of pictures people send her rather than hitting the download button or long pressing to save 🤣.

What the law says is “people who haven’t changed the default choice has to be presented with a confusing screen giving them many options”

Again, all this is going to do is harm users’ battery life and increase Chrome’s market share because it’s the only browser most users have heard of. So, harming iOS user privacy in the name of “competition”.

And why? It actually doesn’t make any sense. Make Apple be able to change the default? Sure, I guess. I wouldn’t write that law, but you do you EU. But what problem is the browser choice screen actually solving? Or attempting to solve? Why can’t users be trusted to change the default on their own? And why does it matter?

It’s like they determined it was an issue in the 90s with Microsoft and don’t realize the world has changed.

You should get familiar with the status quo bias or the default bias. Why do you think google pays Apple billions to be the default search engine?

 

[wbeasley]

Delete the App Store? Is that a joke? With Apple's current restrictions, you wouldn't be able to get any relevant apps at all.

current restricitions that have existed since the AppStore was launched over a decade ago?
With millions of apps paying devs bucketloads of money...

yes, nothing relevant at all. LOL.

do you exaggerate much?

 

[wbeasley]

Yep. All the browser choice screen is going to do is give Chrome a higher market share on iOS.

and consume your limited memory and hang... and Apple will get the blame, of course

 

[surferfb]

You should get familiar with the status quo bias or the default bias. Why do you think google pays Apple billions to be the default search engine?

I’m well aware of default bias. but you’re just changing default bias to “pick the one I’ve heard of” bias. Which again, is just going to give Chrome a higher market share, once again showing the EU is incapable of thinking through the results of its idiotic tech regulations.

And again, this isn’t actually solving a problem, and certainly not a problem that requires government intervention. A OS with less than 30% of the market should be allowed to set what they feel is the best browser for their users without the government mandating a confusing “are you sure” Splash screen. ESPECIALLY when they already allow that selection to be changed by the user after the fact.

 

[tmaciak]

Apple does not have to allow what Samsung is doing. They have to give the user a choice. The law does not state, that Apple needs to provide API that would allow apps to make themselves the default.

I'm not sure if you got what I meant. I meant, that EU is now riding Apple, as it is easy target being big and known corporation, while not visible pushing other competitors.

So, we are discussing here that Apple is forced to allow me to uninstall any app from my iPhone, while I can't uninstall many Samsung apps from my Galaxy. We are discussing about adding irritating choice screen and force me to confirm my choices every software update, but one of those possible "choices" is changing my setup without my consent.

I'm not against leveling ground for everyone, but let it be everyone, because now it seems that some companies are favorized and some are ridded.

 

[wbeasley]

I don't think Tim cares about people blaming him. I do think he cares about his user's privacy and satisfaction with their devices, both of which are negatively impacted by this decision. All this is going to do is 1) confuse non-technical users and 2) give Chrome a bigger market share on iOS at the expense of Safari - ironically making EU customers' privacy worse than if things had been left as is.

Why on earth the EU thinks that a platform with less than 30% marketshare shouldn't be able to set its browser as default without telling every user "YOU CAN CHANGE YOUR DEFAULT", I don't know. Especially when that default is ALREADY allowed to be changed in Settings. And we all know it will soon be every default app, "Which App Store do you want to set as default"? Which Camera App? Which Photos App?" etc. etc. etc.

funny how Android allowed manufacturers to skin and add in extra apps and tailor the interface... supporting an app on Android where I worked was a nightmare in comparison as you have to know what and where Settings were called and how to use buttons differently on a range of hardware.

And then after all the tailoring, they release an no frills standard Android pure experience phone that many prefer...

 

[wbeasley]

Only a few zealots.

vocal ones...

 

[rme]

This is getting ridiculous.
delete the messages and phone app? really? how will you receive calls and messages?

With a backdoored app provided by your telco that relays data to the government?

 

[MilaM]

So, we are discussing here that Apple is forced to allow me to uninstall any app from my iPhone, while I can't uninstall many Samsung apps from my Galaxy. We are discussing about adding irritating choice screen and force me to confirm my choices every software update, but one of those possible "choices" is changing my setup without my consent.

To be honest, I don't know if Samsung's phone division will be subject to these rules. I agree it should be possible to delete default apps on any smartphone.

The good thing about the Android ecosystem though is, that there at least is some competition. Your next phone does not have to be a Samsung and you can mostly migrate your app purchases, content and data. On iOS on the other hand there is only one product that is completely controlled by one entity.

 

[wbeasley]

11 pages into this topic and the quickest way to skim these messages I've found is just look at the user name and decide if it's worth reading the comment on the right...

it's easy after a while when you see someone you know well who provide good feedback and counter the emotive and often wrong opinions passed off as information. you can see what theyve answered and get the feel for the thread with a lot less effort...