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I hate the touchbar because it was too tiny to be of use and replaced keys which were of use. I heard about the touchbar and instantly had images in my mind about being able to use it as a control surface in GarageBand, Logic Pro and FCP to turn knobs, move faders and adjust controls in a tactile way. Then I saw one in the flesh at my retailer and realised to use it it you needed fingers like a newborn, and it would only ever be a gimmick.
 
13" is the perfect laptop size! the Touch Bar is well liked outside of Mac rumors! those chunky 14" and 16" behemoths are not practical for a lot of people! that notch is ugly!
14” MBP is not clunky and not a behemoth. It’s perfect size and a very well built machine. I do agree that the 16” MBP is massive and is a behemoth.

Going forward, I can see Apple dropping the 13” MBP completely. I don’t know if the new MBA will stay at 13” or will go to 14”. Personally, I would prefer they eliminated the 13” altogether and made the new MBA to be 14” but thinner than the 14” MBP with fewer ports and less powerful CPU, requiring less cooling.
 
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14” is not clunky and not a behemoth. It’s a perfect size and a very well built machine.
Couldn't agree more. 13" MBP is the obvious elephant in the room. If you don't need a 14" you may as well just buy the nearly identical MBA and save some money. If you need a more powerful machine than the MBA, you'll be eyeing up the 14" or 16" MBP, not the 13", because the difference isn't worth it unless you have some affiliation to the 1/4" touchscreen which Apple are obviously deprecating.
 
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13" Pro version?
Just bring back 15" 17" Pro versions and be done with it
Stop fiddling with sizing once and for all!
 
It's not that hard to understand, in my opinion: M2 replaces the previous baseline M1 chip. The M2 Pro and M2 Max chips directly succeed the M1 Pro and M1 Max respectively.
The mental gymnastics required to understand this is still unnecessary. 2 > 1. Apple messed this up. They tried to make it simple and it resulted in the concept being completely unintuitive. Intel had it right with i3, i5, i7, i9.
 
There is unlikely to an M2 Pro/Max for a new MBP16 this year, it's more likely towards the end of 2023. So that would be a 2-year refresh cycle for the Pro/Max with the intermediate year for the lower end M<n> updates.

That seems perfectly reasonable, and makes refreshes sufficiently far apart to prevent buyers from "waiting for the next update around the corner". If you can wait 2 years, you don't really need it now....
I have already waited too long. No more waiting for me... I need this beast now!
 
You might reconsider that. Just wait for the coming Air. IPadOS is oddly counter intuitive for MacOS users.
I hear you. The feature I generally care about the most is display quality and ProMotion/refresh rates are def something I notice. If the Air has ProMo, I’m def moving on it - I just can’t see the MBA getting it.
 
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When in doubt assume the rumor with the smallest incremental change... it's how Tim "Supply Chain" Apple rolls ;)
 
The mental gymnastics required to understand this is still unnecessary. 2 > 1. Apple messed this up. They tried to make it simple and it resulted in the concept being completely unintuitive. Intel had it right with i3, i5, i7, i9.
Nah Intels is still messed up, if you had an "i7" from 2011 would it make sense to upgrade to an "i5" from 2022 or even another i7? Also you have ultra low voltage chips in laptops being called i7, despite them being way slower than other i7s.

People here won't be happy until each chip is named off multiple benchmark scores.
 
The mental gymnastics required to understand this is still unnecessary. 2 > 1. Apple messed this up. They tried to make it simple and it resulted in the concept being completely unintuitive. Intel had it right with i3, i5, i7, i9.
Nope, Intel is evolving the i3, i5, … every generation without giving them new names. Before the i9 existed, they had 3 levels of price and power. What processor you really had was always determined by some dubious codename. My own i5 is way slower than an i3 nowadays.
Apple now has 3 power levels, M1, Pro, Max. The architecture generation is just a number.
It is the same system, only a different phrasing.
 
Nah Intels is still messed up, if you had an "i7" from 2011 would it make sense to upgrade to an "i5" from 2022 or even another i7? Also you have ultra low voltage chips in laptops being called i7, despite them being way slower than other i7s.

People here won't be happy until each chip is named off multiple benchmark scores.

That’s what I mean though. Apple tried to get cute and make it simple, when in reality it just comes off as wrong to the most people buying these things. You’re likely to have the same issue where the M3 is even less powerful than the M1 Max.
 
Has certainly done that in the iPad and iPhone space. Not so much in the Mac space. the volumes and diversity is different. Mac's have an higher upper half of the marketspace. Most of those are STILL ON Intel solutions 1.25 years into the transition.

Yeah - the iPhone seems to work on a "trickle down" model: The flagship iPhone gets an update every September, regular as clockwork. Back in the day, of course, phone sales were dominated by people who got their phones on contract and were encouraged by the providers to upgrade every year - and AFAIK that hasn't completely gone away today.

The Mac is more "bottom-up", especially when you compare the high-end desktops (...and the Mac Pro/iMac Pro have been a bit of a dumpster fire with a series of dead-end models) - the lower end (of the Mac range) tend to get the most frequent updates. However I suspect that is partly because the lower-end Macs are the money-spinners - so in terms of sales I'm guessing that the majority of Apples Mac sales are now of M1 machines.

Problem is - Apple Silicon's big party trick is delivering mid-range desktop performance without mid-range desktop power and thermal requirements, so it is in the MacBook Air/Pro that it really shines. Moreover, some of it's benefits come from the efficient integration of CPU, GPU and RAM into a single package - essentially, laptop technology. Putting Apple Silicon into mid/high-range desktops - where power/thermals are far less critical, and the SoC model has to be scaled to cope with huge RAM and GPU requirements - is going to be more challenging. Also, you're dealing with a more conservative user-base, using specialist software, for whom any workflow change will be hugely expensive and disruptive. We'll see how Apple rise to that, but there's no surprise that the higher-end desktops are the last to appear.

Apple has driven the average Mac selling price up with the M-series ; not down. Apple hasn't demonstrated any huge effort in looking for cheaper Macs.
Not sure whether or not that's true:
- MacBook Air - same entry price
- Mac Mini - $100 cheaper (but it did take a hit on max RAM and display support).
- Low end "2 port" 13" MBP - same entry price
- Higher-end "4-port" 13" MBP vs. 14" MBP - the most significant price increase - $200 - if you think that's a fair comparison, that's still only the price of the i5 to i7 bump on the old 13" - but you're now getting the same CPU and GPU spec as the 16" whereas the old 13" 4-port still had a lesser CPU and weak Intel graphics. The M1 13" with 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD is arguably a better replacement, at $100 less.
- 24" iMac - same entry price - you can argue the toss about whether fewer ports and optional Ethernet is worth the bigger, better screen and more powerful processor.
- the base 16" MBP has gone up a whole $100 (not a big deal on a $2000+ machine)

The base SSD and RAM didn't change, nor did the BTO upgrade prices. Only the Mini and iMac lost the option of cheap third-party RAM upgrades - and that involved dismantling the whole machine which was never something that the average user would attempt. If there's an effective price rise from the loss of 3rd party RAM options we'll only see that when the 27" iMac (which currently has truly user-upgradeable RAM) is replaced.

On top of that, the entry-level M1 machines are far more capable than the models they replaced, and it's clear from these forums that some people have been "upgrading" from older MacBook Pros, 27" iMacs etc. to M1 machines rather than holding out for the "Pro" machines. That would push the average selling price down.

But, no, Apple never worried too much about competing on price with suppliers who only made a profit if they sold you finance, an extended warranty and a Monster HDMI cable.

If anything, in the laptop world, other suppliers have been looking to Apple and adding "premium" models to match Apple's price points - Microsoft (surface pro/book/laptop/studio) and Razer being obvious examples that sell for Apple-like prices, Dell XPS as obviously Apple-inspired products that, while cheaper than Apple, are expensive by PC standards. Of course, Apple (with Sony) effectively invented the modern laptop with the PowerBook 100 (not the first laptop, but the design with the large screen, set-back keyboard, central pointing device was unique at the time).
 
For those of you suggesting that Apple should have an i-device Touch Bar app, they already do for the iPad: if you use Sidecar, you get a Touch Bar interface on the iPad, whether your Mac has an actual Touch Bar or not.
 
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For those of you suggesting that Apple should have an i-device Touch Bar app, they already do for the iPad: if you use Sidecar, you get a Touch Bar interface on the iPad, whether your Mac has an actual Touch Bar or not.
I always wished for something like this when I had my 12.9" IPP with the Magic Keyboard. A key-enabled touchbar on the iPad would have been a perfect option for not having function keys on the MKB.
 
Don't understand the controversy. Apple has very often filled in the gaps for Watch, iPhone, iPads and MBP by keeping an older model around. Admittedly they don't often upgrade it with a new processor, but maybe they intend this 13" MBP to stay in the lineup for the next 5 years, offering an economy option as the M1 Pro/Max evolve into M2 P/M, M3 etc. Nothing wrong with choice, I am sure they see it as filling a competitive gap that is missed out by the 14" and 16" models.
 
It will be like the An and AnX chips.
M2 will have improved single cores vs M1 Pro/Max, but overall, M1 Pro/Max will beat M2 in GPU (a ton more GPU cores), multi performance-cores, and the encoding engine.
Right, makes sense. I'm not sure if that is simple for customers or complicated, but I don't follow much iPhone/iPad development news at the moment.
 
For those of you suggesting that Apple should have an i-device Touch Bar app, they already do for the iPad: if you use Sidecar, you get a Touch Bar interface on the iPad, whether your Mac has an actual Touch Bar or not.
I admit I haven't tried that - I've kinda stuck on Mojave (on the "ain't broke, don't fix" principle) thanks to a couple of bits of abandonware which are getting a stay of execution until I switch to Apple Silicon. However, Logic Remote works (only with logic, of course) and is a good proof-of-concept for having an iDevice providing touch controls.
 
It will be like the An and AnX chips.
...except there's typically a new top-end iPhone every September which typically has the highest-numbered An chip or, at least, a new go-faster suffix. The iPad sometime messes that up - but I don't think many people are comparison-shopping between iPhone and iPad.

The developing Mac situation is more analogous to the latest iPhone Pro/Max having an A17x processor after the iPhone SE gets an A18.

As I said in another post - the iPhone range gets top-down updates (a new top-end every year. almost without fail) so you rarely see the low-end models being more recent that the top end, whereas (if there's any predictable pattern) it's the low/mid-range Macs that see the most frequent updates.
 
What if... <gasp>

The M2 info is off. It's actually the M1 Pro. They're upgrading the MacBook Pro 13 with the M1 Pro binned 8-core.

So in summary...
  • An upgraded 13" MacBook Pro with 8-core M1 Pro, 1080p webcam.
  • A Mac mini M1 Pro/Max
  • An M1 iMac 27" (Pro to come in the spring with Mini LED)
This would make more sense with the cadence of all products with M1 announced & shipping; M2 later in the year.

Thoughts?
 
From a product strategy standpoint, this seems... weird and confusing. Why have two laptops with the same name that have such significant differences between them?

That said, if this leak is accurate, that's good news for me. I'm still running a 2013 MBP. I had hoped to buy a 2021 model, but I just can't bring myself to plop down that kind of cash for a laptop with a notch in the display. I know a lot of folks here like or at least don't mind the notch, but I can't stand it. Gripes aside, this would mean that I'd have an option to buy a new, notch-less M2 MBP. Awesome! I'd be sad to forgo miniLED and ProMotion, and I'm not a fan of the Touch Bar, but those are tradeoffs I'd make to avoid a notch. Doesn't hurt that the 13" is quite a bit cheaper than its larger siblings (well, more like cousins), too.
 
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For me the Touchbar is a very nice thing. But a newer version of it would be good, because the technology of it keeps the same for years. Me personally would buy the MacBook Pro 16, if there was a Touch Bar
 
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