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Control..

Think HDCP.

I think you mean IP. HDCP is the copy protection scheme. I was going to post about this and the thread above about the ATV being a dockable black box that gets updated as new features are added or you buy the next upgraded box. Ala the same revenue stream for hardware as the phones, iPad, itouch.

The current spec for HDMI already allows for Ethernet over HDMI. Thus that one cable can also hookup and connect all Ethernet enabled HDMI components to the network.
 
Personally I am not interested in an Apple TV Set.

I speculate that it will be very thin and have limited connectivity, perhaps be a wireless TV - minus power cord. I think you can use an iPhone as the remote or an iPad.

If Apple puts an HDMI on it...then people may use it for Blu-rays, Apple does not like Blu-ray.
 
Just like Apple's one button mouse, this Apple remote is the worst remote ever. Do you really like using menu for adjusting the volume? Or jumping to the last channel? Or muting? Are you going to scroll through 800 channels?

i would like to use a GUI rather than a remote with a gazillion buttons, but hey, it's just me ;)
 
They don't make massive profits selling any other kind of content, so why would this be different? Apple has always operated the iTunes Store a bit over break even.
Let me clarify my point, by offering compelling content and a different viewing experience, they will sell lots of both hardware and content.

And while iTunes may not return the fat profits of other Apple products, I find it very hard to believe that they are working on as narrow of a margin as they would like us to comprehend.

Apple is nothing if not the master at squeezing out every dollar. :)
 
I think you mean IP. HDCP is the copy protection scheme. I was going to post about this and the thread above about the ATV being a dockable black box that gets updated as new features are added or you buy the next upgraded box. Ala the same revenue stream for hardware as the phones, iPad, itouch.

The current spec for HDMI already allows for Ethernet over HDMI. Thus that one cable can also hookup and connect all Ethernet enabled HDMI components to the network.

I think you both mean HDMI-CEC
 
I am not advocating anything for anyone. I am simply telling you what works for me and my family. I don't believe in Karma.

I don't really care what your set up is for your viewing and listening pleasure. That is not my problem or the problem of many others. You choose your stuff that makes you happy.

It reads like there are some anger issues. I suggest some deep breathing exercises or maybe go for a nice relaxing walk.

Be well.

Sheeesh. I suggest you rather take a step back from ad hominem arguments when bringing your anecdotal evidence into a discussion and than refrain from respecting anecdotal evidence by other people.

If you need a TV with software then buy one of these rumored devices. I say it'll flop as most of the people need a display - nothing more and nothing less.
 
I think you mean IP. HDCP is the copy protection scheme. I was going to post about this and the thread above about the ATV being a dockable black box that gets updated as new features are added or you buy the next upgraded box. Ala the same revenue stream for hardware as the phones, iPad, itouch.

The current spec for HDMI already allows for Ethernet over HDMI. Thus that one cable can also hookup and connect all Ethernet enabled HDMI components to the network.

No. I mean HDCP.

Every audio/video device has HDCP. It is done via handshaking between devices. This is the talking point. The handshaking itself.

If Apple can make an API that takes those signals/bits and use them to identify all the devices at once and be able to control them with said API that's all one would need for the Apple TV O/S to be able to control all devices at one time using something like the remote app. It could automatically see all the connected devices and control them without any switching remotes or changing input devices manually. It's done via said API not a button on the remote.

One remote for all devices without having to use hardware sensors to set them up or switch between devices because they are already set up using the handshake that all HDCP compliant devices utilize.
 
Why a new OS? The current one isn't even tree months old yet!

I'm sorry, but i'm calling bulls**t on this rumor.
 
Where BGR got it wrong:

There's not a new TV (yet)


Where BGR (I think) got it right:

OS for AppleTV.

This is WWDC everyone. Also, Cook @ the All Things Digital conference says this about AppleTV:

"But last year we sold 2.8 million Apple TVs. This year, in the first six months, we’ve sold 2.7 million."

That's a lot of Apple TVs. I don't think Apple TV is a "hobby" anymore.

Then, Gruber on DF says this:

"But this year there seem to be more TBA sessions than usual — particularly in Presidio, the aforementioned biggest room for sessions in the building.

On Tuesday morning, Presidio is booked for the Developer Tools Kickoff, Game Technologies Kickoff, and What’s New in Cocoa sessions. After that, Presidio is pretty much entirely “TBA” from Tuesday afternoon through the end of the day Thursday. And that’s just the big room — there are dozens of other TBA sessions on the schedule.

This implies not just that Apple will be announcing new stuff (duh, it’s WWDC), but new stuff that will fill the biggest room in the building with two-and-a-half days worth of sessions."

I think something's afoot for Apple TV at WWDC.

w00master
 
w00master, I hope you're right about that. It's a very logical chain of thought. I've owned gen 1 and gen 3 of :apple:TV and seen Apple remove nice features available with "1" in a painful trade for nice features of "3". I'd love them to get it very right with a big update.

They're pretty close now with the hardware (though I still wish for a few more niceties there (there's always hope for "4")). IMO, the UI needs to resurrect a few good features of earlier incarnations.

I do think an App store is long past due for this device. The stuff that Apple can't- or doesn't want to- do could come to life. There's been too much "need to jailbreak it to make it really good"- much of which could be addressed with an app store. The (lack of) content issue could also be significantly improved via apps.

Whether something bigger is coming or not, WWDC would be THE place to roll out an app store and app dev tools. I'd love to see it happen (finally!).
 
w00master, I hope you're right about that. It's a very logical chain of thought. I've owned gen 1 and gen 3 of :apple:TV and seen Apple remove nice features available with "1" in a painful trade for nice features of "3". I'd love them to get it very right with a big update.

They're pretty close now with the hardware (though I still wish for a few more niceties there (there's always hope for "4")). IMO, the UI needs to resurrect a few good features of earlier incarnations.

I do think an App store is long past due for this device. The stuff that Apple can't- or doesn't want to- do could come to life. There's been too much "need to jailbreak it to make it really good"- much of which could be addressed with an app store. The (lack of) content issue could also be significantly improved via apps.

Whether something bigger is coming or not, WWDC would be THE place to roll out an app store and app dev tools. I'd love to see it happen (finally!).

I agree with everything you say. I think the interesting tidbit that I hope is true from BGR is the API control. I think this would open up an enormous opportunity for Apple. I'm thinking: "Made for Apple TV" a la the "Made for iPod" program.

I'm just excited about the possibility of Apps on Apple TV. I literally "cut the cord" on May 1st of this year, and haven't missed it, but more TV channels for me to enjoy? I'm all aboard.

I just hope it's true.

w00master
 
Personally I am not interested in an Apple TV Set.

I speculate that it will be very thin and have limited connectivity, perhaps be a wireless TV - minus power cord. I think you can use an iPhone as the remote or an iPad.

If Apple puts an HDMI on it...then people may use it for Blu-rays, Apple does not like Blu-ray.
You really think Apple would make a TV without an HDMI connector? Tim Cook isn't THAT crazy.

----------

Where BGR got it wrong:

There's not a new TV (yet)


Where BGR (I think) got it right:

OS for AppleTV.

This is WWDC everyone. Also, Cook @ the All Things Digital conference says this about AppleTV:

"But last year we sold 2.8 million Apple TVs. This year, in the first six months, we’ve sold 2.7 million."

That's a lot of Apple TVs. I don't think Apple TV is a "hobby" anymore.

Then, Gruber on DF says this:

"But this year there seem to be more TBA sessions than usual — particularly in Presidio, the aforementioned biggest room for sessions in the building.

On Tuesday morning, Presidio is booked for the Developer Tools Kickoff, Game Technologies Kickoff, and What’s New in Cocoa sessions. After that, Presidio is pretty much entirely “TBA” from Tuesday afternoon through the end of the day Thursday. And that’s just the big room — there are dozens of other TBA sessions on the schedule.

This implies not just that Apple will be announcing new stuff (duh, it’s WWDC), but new stuff that will fill the biggest room in the building with two-and-a-half days worth of sessions."

I think something's afoot for Apple TV at WWDC.

w00master
A most logical assessment, +1.
 
Just like Apple's one button mouse, this Apple remote is the worst remote ever. Do you really like using menu for adjusting the volume? Or jumping to the last channel? Or muting? Are you going to scroll through 800 channels?

don't you have anything better to do than troll apple fan sites?
 
You really think Apple would make a TV without an HDMI connector? Tim Cook isn't THAT crazy.

You know, there are these devices that wirelessly transmit an HDMI signal. You plug a source box into one via HDMI cable, then put the other by your HDTV and connect it's HDMI out to your HDTV. What if Apple built that second unit inside of an HDTV and then sold little dongle-like devices to attach to all (previously wires-required) gear. That would allow any devices we have (from ANY video electronics company) to send their HD signals to this television without any wires involved. That would get us a one wire (power cord) television with up to an unlimited number of connectable devices and no physical ports at all.

What if this added rumor about device interoperability would incorporate this as well? In other words, like some device makers building in airplay, what if Apple has decided to push it's HD media wireless standard (or maybe adopt something already somewhat established) so that new equipment to be built in the next few years could build this inside of their boxes? Thus, for old equipment you need the (HDMI wireless send) dongles but the new stuff could build the dongle-equivalents inside their electronics?

Part of the marketing spin could be "look, no wires" and I could see them making a few slides about the wired mess so typical of a good A/V setup now. If you've ever thoroughly wired up a bunch of stuff and then wanted to add something or make some changes, it can be a bear even with good organization and labeling. Sticking some dongles in jacks where cables used to plug in would be an appealing proposition for those tired of the wires. Apple could sell the dongles like they sell iDevice accessories and make some fat margins on them. If they can get something proprietary into the mix, anyone who likes the idea would be locked into paying up for these tiny bits (needing very small store stock space) of hardware from Apple.

Every time you buy a new A/V source that doesn't have this standard built in (licensing fee paid to Apple), you would naturally want to immediately buy another one of these dongles to link it into the system. If Monster can make what they make selling us those cables we have to buy with each new bit of A/V gear, Apple would be basically taking the cabling revenues & (often fat) profit margins. It's just a small additional step to think about no HDMI cables, no optical cables, no coax cables, no RCA cables and even no speaker cables. There would still be the issue of how to power it all (the power cable is the hardest one to eliminate), but you get the idea.

Apple has done a good job with selling "thin" as if trimming a few millimeters is some massive benefit. I even see people here quoting how they look forward to a thinner ________. This "no wires" spin could be much like that. Like "thin", once you have the product does it really matter that much if the next one loses a few mm (or does all that wiring hassle matter that much after you've jumped through the hoops of wiring up the A/V stack properly)? But then again, many buy "thin" as if it is a major benefit. I bet many would jump on "no wires". I could even see "no wires" being the "I cracked it" link (at least I think that it is much more likely than some kind of enormous content supply revolution, commercial free, just-what-we-want-to-watch, for only $2X.XX per month... with Apple taking their 30%, this solution flowing through Cable company-owned broadband pipes and somehow the producers can keep producing it all at the same quality with us spending a fraction of what we now spend).

I'm still in the camp that Apple won't build a whole television so consider the above just speculation about a "just works" concept that could yield a television with no ports that still might work with all of the A/V equipment we have. I don't know how well those wireless HDMI devices work but there are a lot of them and some have good reviews.
 
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You know, there are these devices that wirelessly transmit an HDMI signal. You plug a source box into one via HDMI cable, then put the other by your HDTV and connect it's HDMI out to your HDTV. What if Apple built that second unit inside of an HDTV and then sold little dongle-like devices to attach to all (previously wires-required) gear. That would allow any devices we have (from ANY video electronics company) to send their HD signals to this television without any wires involved. That would get us a one wire (power cord) television with up to an unlimited number of connectable devices and no physical ports at all.

What if this added rumor about device interoperability would incorporate this as well? In other words, like some device makers building in airplay, what if Apple has decided to push it's HD media wireless standard (or maybe adopt something already somewhat established) so that new equipment to be built in the next few years could build this inside of their boxes? Thus, for old equipment you need the (HDMI wireless send) dongles but the new stuff could build the dongle-equivalents inside their electronics?

Part of the marketing spin could be "look, no wires" and I could see them making a few slides about the wired mess so typical of a good A/V setup now. If you've ever thoroughly wired up a bunch of stuff and then wanted to add something or make some changes, it can be a bear even with good organization and labeling. Sticking some dongles in jacks where cables used to plug in would be an appealing proposition for those tired of the wires. Apple could sell the dongles like they sell iDevice accessories and make some fat margins on them. If they can get something proprietary into the mix, anyone who likes the idea would be locked into paying up for these tiny bits (needing very small store stock space) of hardware from Apple.

Every time you buy a new A/V source that doesn't have this standard built in (licensing fee paid to Apple), you would naturally want to immediately buy another one of these dongles to link it into the system. If Monster can make what they make selling us those cables we have to buy with each new bit of A/V gear, Apple would be basically taking the cabling revenues & (often fat) profit margins. It's just a small additional step to think about no HDMI cables, no optical cables, no coax cables, no RCA cables and even no speaker cables. There would still be the issue of how to power it all (the power cable is the hardest one to eliminate), but you get the idea.

Apple has done a good job with selling "thin" as if trimming a few millimeters is some massive benefit. I even see people here quoting how they look forward to a thinner ________. This "no wires" spin could be much like that. Like "thin", once you have the product does it really matter that much if the next one loses a few mm (or does all that wiring hassle matter that much after you've jumped through the hoops of wiring up the A/V stack properly)? But then again, many buy "thin" as if it is a major benefit. I bet many would jump on "no wires". I could even see "no wires" being the "I cracked it" link (at least I think that it is much more likely than some kind of enormous content supply revolution, commercial free, just-what-we-want-to-watch, for only $2X.XX per month... with Apple taking their 30%, this solution flowing through Cable company-owned broadband pipes and somehow the producers can keep producing it all at the same quality with us spending a fraction of what we now spend).

I'm still in the camp that Apple won't build a whole television so consider the above just speculation about a "just works" concept that could yield a television with no ports that still might work with all of the A/V equipment we have. I don't know how well those wireless HDMI devices work but there are a lot of them and some have good reviews.

Yes, although I believe that any Apple TV will have HDMI, at lest in the next 3 years, there's nothing to say that it can't be wireless HDMI as you have suggested. Much better than having to connect wires to 3 or 4 ports anyway in terms of the space occupied by the ports, the clutter created by the cables and the cost of the ports and cables. It reminds me of when Apple introduced the current form factor iMac with BT keyboard and mouse; the power cord was the only cord to get in the way, and even that was managed by the design of the stand. It would sure be nice to hang a TV on a wall with nothing more than a power outlet needed behind it, if the TV also functioned as a computer monitor and interacted wirelessly with devices like your phone and iPad, as well as alternate sources such as DVD/BluRay. I think this is the direction SJ was heading when he said that he "cracked" the puzzle of making TV and its user experience better.
 
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Sheeesh. I suggest you rather take a step back from ad hominem arguments when bringing your anecdotal evidence into a discussion and than refrain from respecting anecdotal evidence by other people.

If you need a TV with software then buy one of these rumored devices. I say it'll flop as most of the people need a display - nothing more and nothing less.

Huh? I am still trying to figure out the "and than" in your first sentence. My bad I guess.

And when did I ever advocate for a new tv? I was just commenting on the fact that my household was able to cut the cord in favour of using atv. Nowhere was I saying I must have a tv from apple.

As I said, a nice walk will make you feel better.

Be well.
 
Do you guys think the iPhone will include an IR Port to control the Apple TV? What do you think will be the Apple TV's refresh rate and panel specs? what about the insides?
 
but he also said that Apple has and will continue to turn some things over to those that are doing it better than they can do it themselves. He was talking about manufacturing but I think it applies to products as well.

So what compelling value would there be in Apple creating a real TV versus adding content to their system that can be sold to those with computers, iPads, iPhones, the ATV set box and leaving the TV set to those that are already world known for doing it well.

I see no value in a tv set. A better display line up that has direct HDMI support that could be used as a tv set with your ATV sure, but not a 'smart tv set'

See the link I posted...on page 2. The reference set has full AV (amps, switching and speakers built in) You just take it out of the box , plug it in and plug in your source devices. After that, it detects what you plugged in and configures the remote ( a very simple remote) . Using the technology that Apple can bring, it could be even more simple and work even better. We all know what Bose marketing is about, but Apple would try to build their set to be the best. Many of us would prefer a Apple set top solution like we have now, and want to build the rest ourselves (which would be possible if todays news is true) But do not overlook all of the people who don't want to have to run cables all around the room , place speakers, set up Audio and all of the requirements to build a Home Theater today. Add Siri and people would go nuts.

----------

Do you guys think the iPhone will include an IR Port to control the Apple TV? What do you think will be the Apple TV's refresh rate and panel specs? what about the insides?

No. Apple would provide for device control over IP or HDMI-CEC.

The rumor is that the TV part is coming from Sharp. So I'd expect :

LCD with LED backlight (Local Dimming)
240Hz
Sharp's 4 color glass with the yellow pixels.

In other words, state of the art LCD technology.
 
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No. Apple would provide for device control over IP or HDMI-CEC.

The rumor is that the TV part is coming from Sharp. So I'd expect :

LCD with LED backlight (Local Dimming)
240Hz
Sharp's 4 color glass with the yellow pixels.

In other words, state of the art LCD technology.

Interesting. I have a 50" Pioneer Kuro Elite plasma, was/is considered the best in the industry. Pioneer shut down their display department and sold their Elite plasma tech to Panasonic, who then sold Kuro tech to Sharp. Sharp just released "Elite" LED and plasma models. In fact, it looks exactly like a Pioneer with "Elite" on the front and little/no mention that it's a Sharp.

I would be surprised if Sharp become the panel producer for Apple's rumored television. I would believe Samsung would be a better fit. I just bought a 55" Samsung LED 8000, 600Hz, USB 3.0 connections, WiFi, Smart Apps, ethernet connection, NAS support, and thin has all **** - love it. Blacks are almost as deep as my Pioneer, and the image is amazing. 3D is a gimmick, but I admit it's fun to watch "Thor" and such in 3D.
 
It's about time somebody though of this, having multiple remotes is a stupid thing, remote for TV, remote for Apple TV, remote for cable box, remote for DVD/Blu-ray player, etc...

You shouldn't have to use all those remotes at the same time. Cableco digital converters come with universal remotes that can control all these devices as far as basic functionality once programmed. You can lock the volume buttons on them to specific devices, too, so when you press volume up/down it always changes the volume on your TV or your audio receiver without you having to press a "TV" or "AUX" button first.

My Sony bluray player's remote has keys to control the power, input selection, and volume on my Samsung TV after holding in two buttons to set it to that brand of TV when I first got it. When you're watching a bluray these are the only buttons you're going to need on a TV in everyday use:

  1. Turn on TV set
  2. Set to proper HDMI/Component input for bluray player
  3. adjust volume level
LG remotes also have TV channel change buttons on their bluray player remotes, but that's of little use for many people because they use receivers for satellite/digital cable and not the TV's own tuner.

If you're still having to juggle multiple remotes for basic home entertainment you should either call your cableco's tech support or RTFM.

Now all these new Smart TVs doesn't look all that smart, eh?
"Smart TV" is a moniker applied to TVs that can connect directly to the Internet to make use of online streaming services like Netflix, browse the web, and download other customized apps from their manufacturer's servers without use of a separate device like a PC, converter, or bluray player. It has nothing to do with universal remote control functionality.

Your quip doesn't look all that smart now, eh?
 
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