Apple to 'Vigorously' Defend Itself in Nokia Lawsuit

MacRumors

macrumors bot
Original poster
Apr 12, 2001
49,579
10,893
https://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogodarkd.png

In its 10-K annual report (PDF) filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission and posted yesterday, Apple notes that it plans to "vigorously" defend itself from a lawsuit filed last week by Nokia claiming infringement of multiple cellular and Wi-Fi patents by Apple's iPhone.
The complaint alleges that these patents are essential to one or more of the GSM, UMTS and 802.11 wireless communications standards, and that the Company has the right to license these patents from plaintiff on fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory ("FRAND") terms and conditions. Plaintiff seeks unspecified FRAND compensation and other relief. The Company's response to the complaint is not yet due. The Company intends to defend the case vigorously.
In its press release announcing the lawsuit, Nokia noted that approximately 40 other companies, including "virtually all the leading mobile device vendors," has licensed the intellectual property but that Apple and had refused to agree to "appropriate terms" for licensing.

Analysts have claimed that Nokia could be seeking up to $1 billion in damages from Apple in what is likely to be a protracted and costly legal dispute, regardless of outcome.

Article Link: Apple to 'Vigorously' Defend Itself in Nokia Lawsuit
 

edesignuk

Moderator emeritus
Mar 25, 2002
19,233
2
London, England
If practically everyone else is already paying up, I really don't see how Apple think they have a leg to stand on.

I can't stand how they think they're so "special".
 

Macman1993

macrumors 6502
Nov 23, 2007
337
16
Hmm the amount is insane but if Nokia has the patent and apple refuses to pay for the license then they diserve to be sued. If someone did this to apple you know there would be a lawsuit. I love apple but they should play by the same rules they expect others to play by.
 

ChazUK

macrumors 603
Feb 3, 2008
5,390
24
Essex (UK)
If practically everyone else is already paying up, I really don't see how Apple think they have a leg to stand on.

I can't stand how they think they're so "special".
But if "practically" everyone is paying up, who else isn't and why are they getting away with it over Apple?
 

rhett7660

macrumors G5
Jan 9, 2008
12,562
2,535
Sunny, Southern California
Of course reading what little information is on the web, we do not know all of the facts of the case. Something tells me there is more to this then any of us know.

But if "practically" everyone is paying up, who else isn't and why are they getting away with it over Apple?
You beat me to it. Why isn't EVERYONE paying????? Which is why I say, there is more to this. We do not know all of the facts. Unless you have read the brief or lawsuit in whole we do not know.
 

edesignuk

Moderator emeritus
Mar 25, 2002
19,233
2
London, England
But if "practically" everyone is paying up, who else isn't and why are they getting away with it over Apple?
Your guess is as good as mine. 40 companies paying up must cover all of the big players though, how many manufacturers can there be? My guess would be there might be a few small companies not playing ball, but they're probably not worth the trouble. Apple and the iPhone on the other hand, clearly worth it.
 

Macman1993

macrumors 6502
Nov 23, 2007
337
16
But if "practically" everyone is paying up, who else isn't and why are they getting away with it over Apple?
Well the post never said someone else wasn't paying it just said most are it could be that other companies just aren't using the technology.
 

allpar

macrumors 6502
May 20, 2002
311
63
There was once a company that held a frivolous patent on the automobile. Every automaker paid until stubborn ol' Henry Ford refused. The patent was demolished in court.

(Before you get the warm fuzzies for Henry Ford from that, by the way, remember that Adolph Hitler said his solution to certain perceived demographic problems was inspired by Henry Ford.)

Sometimes patents are simply invalid and should be ignored. Other times, well, Apple is not known for being shy... or understanding that laws apply to them, too. (Remember the old Beatles battle. Apple was probably not on the "right" side there.)
 

outphase

macrumors 65816
Jun 13, 2009
1,291
32
Parts Unknown
Sometimes patents are simply invalid and should be ignored. Other times, well, Apple is not known for being shy... or understanding that laws apply to them, too. (Remember the old Beatles battle. Apple was probably not on the "right" side there.)
Ignoring the patent would be the one of the worst possible things for Apple to do. It would almost be as bad as not showing up in court.
 

allpar

macrumors 6502
May 20, 2002
311
63
Ignoring the patent would be the one of the worst possible things for Apple to do. It would almost be as bad as not showing up in court.
I think you know what I meant.

In any case, maybe Apple should just BUY Nokia ... it might be cheaper in the long run.

I sure hope this is a case of invalid patent, not one of hubris.
 

cumanzor

macrumors 6502
May 14, 2009
432
0
Is there any way to know or at least have a vague idea on which patents are they talking about?
 

ChazUK

macrumors 603
Feb 3, 2008
5,390
24
Essex (UK)
Your guess is as good as mine. 40 companies paying up must cover all of the big players though, how many manufacturers can there be? My guess would be there might be a few small companies not playing ball, but they're probably not worth the trouble. Apple and the iPhone on the other hand, clearly worth it.
The only people I can think of that are not paying up is the likes of NOKLA, who are already releasing clones of other handsets.

If that is the case and Apple is the only big player not paying up then they probably will pay in the end.
 

realgenius

macrumors member
Jan 15, 2008
61
0
... license these patents from plaintiff on fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory ("FRAND") terms and conditions.
It is possible that Apple will argue Nokia wasn't offering FRAND licensing terms. Maybe the licensing deal offered by Nokia to Apple wasn't the same deal that the other 40 were offered?

I'm pretty sure the patent is valid, but I'm sure Apple will say that it doesn't apply to their device and/or the terms from Nokia were discriminatory.

I'm not sure of Apple's complete legal track record, but they probably have weighed all of the pros and cons of this action.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out, but really I don't think it is going to impact either Apple or Nokia much in the long run. I think Apple has more than a billion cash on hand, so even if they lose big it won't be earth shattering.
 

Xavier

macrumors 68030
Mar 23, 2006
2,595
1,169
Columbus
Just because one company wins it big with a great product doesn't mean that you get a cut of the gold.

I think both Nokia and Palm are a joke.
 

zombitronic

macrumors 65816
Feb 9, 2007
1,115
6
Of course reading what little information is on the web, we do not know all of the facts of the case. Something tells me there is more to this then any of us know.
I agree. I'd like to know exactly what patents are supposedly being infringed upon.

I may be misreading this, ("The complaint alleges that these patents are essential to one or more of the GSM, UMTS and 802.11 wireless communications standards,") but it seems as if Nokia is stating that they own patents essential to the development or operation of some wireless communications standards. After a bit of Googling, I couldn't find any information about Nokia owning, developing or contributing to these standards. Can anyone find evidence that states otherwise, or am I completely wrong about my assumption of this complaint?
 

arkitect

macrumors 603
Sep 5, 2005
5,951
5,733
Bath, United Kingdom
I think both Nokia and Palm are a joke.
So, Xavier, you think that do you? :rolleyes:

What will you say when Nokia get their claim supported in court?
Will you then say Apple is a joke?

Seriously why the blind f*nboyism?
It is quite alright for Jobs, Inc. to be wrong. Your world won't end.
 

Cybbe

macrumors 6502
Sep 15, 2004
319
92
I agree. I'd like to know exactly what patents are supposedly being infringed upon.

I may be misreading this, ("The complaint alleges that these patents are essential to one or more of the GSM, UMTS and 802.11 wireless communications standards,") but it seems as if Nokia is stating that they own patents essential to the development or operation of some wireless communications standards. After a bit of Googling, I couldn't find any information about Nokia owning, developing or contributing to these standards. Can anyone find evidence that states otherwise, or am I completely wrong about my assumption of this complaint?
Nokia was one of the key developers of the GSM standard. The company is far more than just the handset division, it also engages in extensive research and build telecommunication networks. While I don't know the specifics of this lawsuit, I find it highly likely and credible that Nokia holds many patents related to wireless technology.
 

HLdan

macrumors 603
Aug 22, 2007
6,383
0
I hate trolls here!!

Apple is getting sued, a new article gets posted that they are now going to vigorously defend themselves AS THEY SHOULD, but the article currently has more negatives than positives. Sometimes I wonder are these negatives from Windows fans or is it that people just want Apple to fail? :rolleyes:
 

ChrisA

macrumors G4
Jan 5, 2006
11,663
466
Redondo Beach, California
If practically everyone else is already paying up, I really don't see how Apple think they have a leg to stand on.

I can't stand how they think they're so "special".
It does not matter. Those other companies may just be paying because it is cheaper than going to court.

Let's say I "invent" a wheel. Everyone knows my wheel patent is bogus but I only charge 10 cents for the license. So many people would prefer to send me a few cents because it would cost many thousands to fight in court.

Of course Nokia may have something less obvious then a wheel but we don't know.

The point is that even if many people paid for my wheel license it would still be bogus
 

Plutonius

macrumors G3
Feb 22, 2003
8,628
7,652
New Hampshire, USA
The point is that Apple has a pretty good idea that it can win the law suit or at least reduce the amount of money they owe Nokia (i.e. get a better settlement). Apple would have settled out of court if they believed otherwise.
 

edesignuk

Moderator emeritus
Mar 25, 2002
19,233
2
London, England
Apple is getting sued, a new article gets posted that they are now going to vigorously defend themselves AS THEY SHOULD, but the article currently has more negatives than positives. Sometimes I wonder are these negatives from Windows fans or is it that people just want Apple to fail? :rolleyes:
Or, people don't like seeing Apple acting like they're somehow exempt from the rules.

Keep sucking on that kool aid.

As Cybbe touched on, Nokia are much more than a phone maker. They've been making network devices and technologies for years. Their patent book must be enormous.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.