Apple TV 4K 2.0PCM

[400]

E.g. today I'm watching uhd F1 via Sky -quite Sunday t.v. Volume set to 6 which is not often raised unless for a movie or box set.
In my recent aptv4k experience I have more often than not found myself raising t.v. Volume up top 10 maybe 15.
I'll re visit apt4k sound settings which I have altered recently.
Maybe I'll invest in DD again or wait on Atomos receiver becoming affordable.
T.v. Volume does have an equaliser though sky uhd with DD+ type sound is the best example I can use to get decent digi quality and volume level.

Sport will have a different default level set for audio on 5.1 vs film etc. But it should not be too far apart but not familiar with your amp or setup. Are you listening in stereo or 5.1?

I might have missed it but are you using a Dolby compatable amp? I find the stereo output from the TV (not using the amp) will vary depending on what box I am using but 5.1 is usually constant, there are certain rules and limits set. Try a film on sky then compare to ATV on an amp with just 5.1.
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Pretty sure that it is. As I mentioned, only have the issue with this title and it’s obvious when you listen to it.

Jason

Plot thickens. Repowered ATV (NOT RESET...), issue still there. No correct info for Dolby displayed on the amp.

Few minutes later I sit down with note pad to compile the report through testing (settings used etc and what effect they had) and it pops up sounding great. Correct flag raised in my amps display as opposed to yesterday. Will give it some run through, power down and reset.

Edit. Broke again. Just going to report it. Others play fine.

Edit 2. OK. Now appears to be 5.1 but displaying dts. Beta bug report sent but as I bought this last year (not watched it yet!) I cannot raise an issue on the purchase.

 

[Donfor39]

Sport will have a different default level set for audio on 5.1 vs film etc. But it should not be too far apart but not familiar with your amp or setup. Are you listening in stereo or 5.1?

I might have missed it but are you using a Dolby compatable amp? I find the stereo output from the TV (not using the amp) will vary depending on what box I am using but 5.1 is usually constant, there are certain rules and limits set. Try a film on sky then compare to ATV on an amp with just 5.1.

I don't currently have an amp- sony t.v. Only hdmi connection.
My point was and I appreciate others somewhat disagree, is I have to raise t.v. Volume considerably when using Apple 4k t.v.
I have again re tried Apple t.v. Sound setting which have negligible difference-no suprise consideting I'm not using an amp.
I can genuinely quote Sky as an example-also using a separate hdmi connection.
Sky t.v. Volume 6 -comfortable sound level.
Apple4k t.v. Volume 6 -very low sound level -I have to a raise t.v. Volume to 10 or higher to get comfortable sound level.
Not sure why-though other have offered their thoughts
_edited_
Maybe I could try hdmi 3 or 4 t.v. Sockets.
To add my Apple t.v. Is using high speed hdmi cable for 4k viewing,

 

[400]

Just a thought. If you want to start a new thread to save mixing in this one, we can try a few things to see what the issue may be?

(edit, nit sure what the etiquette is n this)

 

[priitv8]

Maybe I could try hdmi 3 or 4 t.v. Sockets.

You might try and post your findings back here. But I genuinely do not see, how a HDMI port can make any difference.
Because aTV is internally decoding Dolby Digital and outputting PCM audio to HDMI, it will:
a) decide on the audio capabilities your TV is reporting to it over HDMI. Recent Sony Android sets support PCM, DD and DTS on 6 channels, DD+ on 8 channels (may need to be enabled in Audio options).
b) compress its dynamic range if your aTV audio settings have Reduce Loud Sounds set.

What kind of audio level does it use, is probably the decision of developers, may be advised by Dolby Labs.
PS you may indeed want to check the per-input audio settings you may have set on your AndroidTV. They are stored per input (plus separately for internal apps), that is true. But I do not recall any volume-related settings there. There are some Sony enhancers like ClearAudio+ and I have turned all of them off. Oh, and yes, the generic tune of it, like Generic, Sports, Music and Movie, but as far as I can tell, they affect the surround mode your AVR will be set once you select given input. And that annoyance can now also be turned off in latest AndroidTV.

 

[Donfor39]

Just a thought. If you want to start a new thread to save mixing in this one, we can try a few things to see what the issue may be?

Thanks though rather than waste a newthread, I'll try re connecting and changing sockets etc.
Is it safe to assume I should get similar sound levels from Apple 4k t.v.
Is TvOS version a problem as I'm running the betas.
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You might try and post your findings back here. But I genuinely do not see, how a HDMI port can make any difference.
Because aTV is internally decoding Dolby Digital and outputting PCM audio to HDMI, it will:
a) decide on the audio capabilities your TV is reporting to it over HDMI. Recent Sony Android sets support PCM, DD and DTS on 6 channels, DD+ on 8 channels (may need to be enabled in Audio options).
b) compress its dynamic range if your aTV audio settings have Reduce Loud Sounds set.

What kind of audio level does it use, is probably the decision of developers, may be advised by Dolby Labs.
PS you may indeed want to check the per-input audio settings you may have set on your AndroidTV. They are stored per input (plus separately for internal apps), that is true. But I do not recall any volume-related settings there. There are some Sony enhancers like ClearAudio+ and I have turned all of them off. Oh, and yes, the generic tune of it, like Generic, Sports, Music and Movie, but as far as I can tell, they affect the surround mode your AVR will be set once you select given input. And that annoyance can now also be turned off in latest AndroidTV.

Thanks pritv8 -I recognise the Sony sound formats you knindly mention some of which Sky use -not across all channels of course- DD/DD+
From memory I have used Sony Android settings a few times and I am very much aware of individual hdmi sockets settings be it picture or sound.
My question is what is Apple t.v. Doing with sound if it's considerably lower than Sky-@bodybuiler Paul kindly advised it maybe original broadcast content from Apple t.v./iTunes V Sky -compressesed sound
Allow me to re check Sony sound settings.

 

[priitv8]

Is TvOS version a problem as I'm running the betas.

Me too. It may, but I have again not noticed them on audio front.
But the latest public beta will not play any of my own 4K movies in Computers app, only the iTunes Movies streaming
1080p and lesser formats play as before. I am hoping this is just a bug and not an upcoming "feature".
Would be happy to hear your experiences with this (eg shoot your own 4K movie with iPhone, import it into iTunes and see if you can play it back over HomeSharing).

 

[400]

Thanks though rather than waste a newthread, I'll try re connecting and changing sockets etc.
Is it safe to assume I should get similar sound levels from Apple 4k t.v.
Is TvOS version a problem as I'm running the betas.

Forget compression for now, its levels that are the issue. Compression is a whole subject on its own.

What settings are on the audio out for the sky box? I don't know the device and cannot try anything, I don't have one. I have set my BT box to stereo out as using the surround out option drops the level in comparison to my other devices when fed to the TV (not the amp). I re enable surround when I am watching 4k and use the amp on that box.

A simple proof will be swapping the Sky and ATV inputs around and see if the sound levels follow the HDMI leads.

 

[Donfor39]

Forget compression for now, its levels that are the issue. Compression is a whole subject on its own.

What settings are on the audio out for the sky box? I don't know the device and cannot try anything, I don't have one. I have set my BT box to stereo out as using the surround out option drops the level in comparison to my other devices when fed to the TV (not the amp). I re enable surround when I am watching 4k and use the amp on that box.

A simple proof will be swapping the Sky and ATV inputs around and see if the sound levels follow the HDMI leads.

Thanks swapping hdmi lead was my thought also.
I'll re check Sky though I think I'de last chosen DD.

 

[400]

Also compare the audio to normal broadcast. Which one is closet in level.

 

[priitv8]

My question is what is Apple t.v. Doing with sound if it's considerably lower than Sky-@bodybuiler Paul kindly advised it maybe original broadcast content from Apple t.v./iTunes V Sky -compressesed sound

It may be, that it does the 2.0 downmixing properly, honouring the dialnorm level set in the DD stream. The set-top-box may do it differently. Or then again, the other way around (but in general I have more faith in Apple's implementation of Dolby algorithms).
See also

 

[Donfor39]

I've managed to make some progress in improving Sony t.v. Sound Level from Ap4ktv
As others suggested -I re visited t.v. Sound settings.
Here are one or two changes I made.
Clear Audio -set to on or high -(improves vocals is what Sony suggests)
Night time I switched off (lowers volume in evening-not sure from which time)
Sony t.v. Sound mode is set to Cinema -When I altered to normal or other modes the t.v. Sound went as low as what I'm hearing from ap4k t.v.
I reset to Cinema t.v. Much more comfortable level -Initially from Sky -might re try from Freeview DTT.(Digi Terestrial)
Sky q -Interesting as there's been a few firmware updates since I last checked sound settings -current is set DD+ (with a notice that this will include ATMOS -which I believe Sky will be using in near future)
I didn't have reason to alter Sky sound settings as it's no way connected to ap4k t.v. And is acceptable volume level

 

[400]

It may be, that it does the 2.0 downmixing properly, honouring the dialnorm level set in the DD stream. The set-top-box may do it differently. Or then again, the other way around (but in general I have more faith in Apple's implementation of Dolby algorithms).
See also

Its a deep rabbit hole but on the whole there should be a normal set of setting that should be common between Apple, Sky, BBC, ANOther broadcaster etc for a type of presentation (sport vs film vs light entertainment etc.) One gets it, everyone gets it. The punters in the main don't need to know how it gets there. This is where the box on the end of the feed can upset things with a wrong setting for one or two.

I didn't have reason to alter Sky sound settings as it's no way connected to ap4k t.v. And is acceptable volume level

On your audio scale, are you happy with the levels, you can control them etc? Might be a Apple is correct and Sky is too loud. e.g. Years ago it used to be scale 1-10 (only for example) and volume on 9 then something was wrong (analogue days), digital is somewhat different. See if someone else is having issues with you TV make or Sky Box/TV make on places like AV Forums. Try altering the Sky box and see what effect it has.

My TV volume on broadcast is on par with ATV.

 

[JasonHB]

Hi guys, just an update.

I’ve now been speaking to Apple tech support who have escalated this to a senior advisor in iTunes who is now investigation this.

She’s promised to come back to me within 48 hours.

Jason

 

[400]

Mine went in on the feedback system. Had the film up running when the logs were taken, hopefully something useful in them.

 

[400]

Quick check after update and it's setting the amp to 5.1 correctly.Left it run a few minutes. Pop it back on later to see if its still fixed.

 

[JasonHB]

Just downloaded the latest tvOS beta, build 16J5334e and Jason Bourne is now working in multichannel PCM and also Dolby digital 5.1 when I select that.

Not sure why the previous beta only affected Jason Bourne, very odd indeed.

I know it wasn’t anything Apple changed on the server side as I tried it immediately before I updated and it was still only 2.0

Jason

 

[priitv8]

I know it wasn’t anything Apple changed on the server side as I tried it immediately before I updated and it was still only 2.0

So, unfortunate stream misdetection??

 

[400]

Most curious indeed. A lot of audio stuff now comes with a lot of info in the background that we do not see. We can look at that with the right kit. This info is present from initial capture all the way through the chain to the decoder on any system, though some will be stripped on the consumer end of presentation.

Guess work. Film was within spec but one setting or flag at the top or bottom of its range. The ATV in the UK has a different version of software on beta and that was not seeing that flag correctly. Widen the decode parameters and it drops in.

Possibly. There are a few other things it could have been. Be nice to know. If the film was way out then more people would have shouted hence the guess at the Beta.

 

[priitv8]

Possibly. There are a few other things it could have been. Be nice to know. If the film was way out then more people would have shouted hence the guess at the Beta.

They could also have had just a minor glitch in their code. You miss one bit, and the rest of the stream will be interpreted wrong in that frame. Because, AFAIK, there are no other sync marks besides frame start syncword (0x0B77) in the DD stream, either. So your decoder must be precise in following the train of bits or it gets "off the rails".

 

[JasonHB]

They could also have had just a minor glitch in their code. You miss one bit, and the rest of the stream will be interpreted wrong in that frame. Because, AFAIK, there are no other sync marks besides frame start syncword (0x0B77) in the DD stream, either. So your decoder must be precise in following the train of bits or it gets "off the rails".

Very odd that it only affected one film though

Jason

 

[400]

They could also have had just a minor glitch in their code. You miss one bit, and the rest of the stream will be interpreted wrong in that frame. Because, AFAIK, there are no other sync marks besides frame start syncword (0x0B77) in the DD stream, either. So your decoder must be precise in following the train of bits or it gets "off the rails".

Never dealt with the customer side delivery. E side and there is a position the vision a block of info can start, that info being the audio stream (well, sort of) and it has limits, e.g. line 13-53 for 1080i50. Varies with formats due to timings. I assumed there was a similar limit into the home. 21 was the ideal. However it should work 13-53 but no one is going to sit easy when it is nudging the end stops.

 

[priitv8]

Never dealt with the customer side delivery. E side and there is a position the vision a block of info can start, that info being the audio stream (well, sort of) and it has limits, e.g. line 13-53 for 1080i50. Varies with formats due to timings. I assumed there was a similar limit into the home. 21 was the ideal. However it should work 13-53 but no one is going to sit easy when it is nudging the end stops.

I did not understand a word of it!
But in case of iTunes (or any other IP-based) streaming, we're talking about file formats, right?
After you've demuxed all your transport-whatnot-streams, you end up with raw Dolby Digital bitstream.
I second to Jason, that it seems weird that just one movie was affected. That phenomenon I can not explain.

 

[400]

I did not understand a word of it!
But in case of iTunes (or any other IP-based) streaming, we're talking about file formats, right?
After you've demuxed all your transport-whatnot-streams, you end up with raw Dolby Digital bitstream.
I second to Jason, that it seems weird that just one movie was affected. That phenomenon I can not explain.

Sorry.

But yeah, mystery.

 

[Donfor39]

Its a deep rabbit hole but on the whole there should be a normal set of setting that should be common between Apple, Sky, BBC, ANOther broadcaster etc for a type of presentation (sport vs film vs light entertainment etc.) One gets it, everyone gets it. The punters in the main don't need to know how it gets there. This is where the box on the end of the feed can upset things with a wrong setting for one or two.



On your audio scale, are you happy with the levels, you can control them etc? Might be a Apple is correct and Sky is too loud. e.g. Years ago it used to be scale 1-10 (only for example) and volume on 9 then something was wrong (analogue days), digital is somewhat different. See if someone else is having issues with you TV make or Sky Box/TV make on places like AV Forums. Try altering the Sky box and see what effect it has.

My TV volume on broadcast is on par with ATV.

Since re playing one or two purchased movies Volume seems very improved, maybe it was some movies which had lower sound quality.
Not too worry I'm very happy since re checking and tweaking Sony t.v. Sound setttings.
Thanks All -until I re invest in DD5.1. Or Atmos during 2019.

 

[400]

Since re playing one or two purchased movies Volume seems very improved, maybe it was some movies which had lower sound quality.
Not too worry I'm very happy since re checking and tweaking Sony t.v. Sound setttings.
Thanks All -until I re invest in DD5.1. Or Atmos during 2019.

What you get will be a personal choice, when my amp needs replacing it will be whatever is going at the price that fits. Don't get hung up on 5.1 vs atmos etc. But go listen if you have the chance and make your own mind up but bear in mind the work required to get the speakers for a set up. What you spend is up to your wallet.

No need for cables made from unobtanium and ground unicorn horns. Ordinary cable will suffice in most applications. Same for any extra HDMI leads you need. Get the specification that fits the bill, no need to waste money on them. Amazon basics are great, length dependent, short runs no issues. There are many others similar priced.

Pop over to AV forums and see what they review or mention when you are ready.
https://www.avforums.com