Ah right, I see. So the wafer is a certain size, and they stuff as many A5's on them as possible, and it's cheaper because they can now fit more on, while still paying the same price for the wafer?
Ah right, I see.
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Apple TV's A5 Chip Includes Surprise Die Shrink to 32nm [Updated: Same Chip Found in iPad 2]
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why is it a surprise? Logically Apple will want to move to a smaller die size ASAP. Maybe they were trying for the 4S but couldn't get the yields they needed, so they used binned parts for the apple TV. Either that was the plan all along while they refine their processes to prepare for iphone 5, or its a smart reaction to make the most of available chips rather than dump them all
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do you think they'll roll this into 4S's during the current active lifecycle, or switch to it when the iphone 5 comes out (assuming the 4S becomes the lower priced entry, like they are doing with the 'new' ipad 2)
I agree I don't think they'd use this for iphone 5. If the process is stable enough they could maybe run an A5X through it for power saving, or even something else (A15 is a nice wish to have)
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do you think they'll roll this into 4S's during the current active lifecycle, or switch to it when the iphone 5 comes out (assuming the 4S becomes the lower priced entry, like they are doing with the 'new' ipad 2)
I agree I don't think they'd use this for iphone 5. If the process is stable enough they could maybe run an A5X through it for power saving, or even something else (A15 is a nice wish to have)
Maybe Off-Topic, but yeah, we also need new iPod Classic. 160GB is becoming insufficient for my needs - I am a huge lossless audio fan.
and I still don't give a damn how Apple will cope with stuffing such storage inside. The whole problem is that nothing is pushing them to update it. Classic *needs* some competition.
Maybe more CPU power would be nice for greater video compression? For me scrubbing through HD videos on my ATV is a jumpy, buggy process. Lower bandwidth requirements and a faster CPU to process the video might help.
Of course, you'd either have to re-encode your videos, or politely ask Apple/Youtube/Netflix etc. to re-encode their video libraries...
Thank you ASML.
Thank you ARM.
Thank you Einstein.
Thank you for the sun..
Thank you BIG Bang.
Thank you ....................................................."God" (I-Atheist)
As if Samsung is the only one that innovate, invent manufacture ASO.
Well, A5 support is a given as long as the apple TV exists. That product can exist unchanged for years, so there's no question A5 is here to stay.
It all depends how ambitious iOS 6 is and how aggressive they want to be with their technical features. Historically, they've been very aggressive with their SoCs, and I don't see any reason for that trend to not continue. It's pretty clear the A5X isn't a good fit for the next iPhone, so they'd have to cook up something new.
I would say there is a 100% chance they support iOS 6, minus some features. The iPhone 4 will only be 2 generations old at that point. They've always supported 2 generation old hardware in a new iOS release. iPhone got iOS 3, iphone 3G got iOS 4, 3GS got iOS 5, etc.
People seem to think this bigger screen is a foregone conclusion. The form factor and 3.5" has been a constant of one of the most successful mobile products ever. I don't see a big reason for them to change it. The next iPhone can get a dual core cortex A15 because there's still places to go after that. Quad-core, big.LITTLE, at some point they step up to LPDDR3, Rogue graphics cores, die shrinks etc. etc.
Sure, they'll do it as soon as capacity and yield allow and it makes financial sense. They may be on a supply curve where pushing the supply into the 4S also would actually make it cost more per chip. I'd say it will be in there by the time we get the next iphone though. I also don't see a need for A5X in the next iPhone. It's simply too much of a brute force approach for more GPU power. A rogue dual core would much more elegantly achieve the same performance (actually more).
Interesting chart. This indicates to me the current chip release may have particularly long legs, perhaps 3 years or more. 2012-13, 2013-14, 2014-15 and probably into 2015-16 too. Getting people used to that idea would reduce the whining.
Rocketman
People are starting to say the limit for silicon is somewhere in the 7nm range. Intel's FinFET and these high-k gate first technologies are only the beginning of the tricks we'll need to get there. Roadmaps don't go past 4nm. At that point, you're talking a matter of single-digit atoms wide anyway. We're within a decade of the end of that roadmap http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiconductor_device_fabrication
As far as I can tell, graphene will be the next great enabler, but it's still quite a ways off. Too tough to make right now.
Short Q&A on graphene's future: http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/08/will-graphene-replace-silicon-in.html
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Been following that. I agree that and q-bits are the next thing. But as I have been saying for a few years now computer chips right now are "good enough" for 98% of uses and improved I/O is the bottleneck. TB and SSD puts a big dent in that and has legs for future improvement.
People with heavy processing requirements can use blades (stacked boards) and grids (stacked computers) or servers (big iron).
I think the % of folks who really need a computer faster than a 2013 Mac is so tiny, the addressable market is best served by VARs.
Rocketman
I/Os will be taken care of by hybrid transistors and other optical interconnects realizable on silicon substrates. That's where TB is headed with Light Peak.
Very good points and good logic. The die shrink seems to be powering the iPad 2 as well, so the combination of TV, iPad 2, iPod and possible smaller iPad may be enough of a market for Apple. I do think that the current A5x as it stands will be far too power hungry for the iPhone but die shrinks and whatnot can change things in the next 5-6 months
The A5X is a bruteforce stop-gap solution. I wouldn't be surprised if we never see it in a product again, even with a die shrink. By the time of the next iPad, they can have a SoC out with a dual-core Rogue solution that will be even faster than the 543MP4.
It is a mess that AMD wanted to get out of. Intel can afford its own fabs and to retool them for a new node but everywhere else everyone shares the pain of a new node.
There is talk that Haswell's Lynx Point PCH is going to have a lower TDP but I just suspect that the PCH is just moving to 45nm or even 32nm. Intel was using 65nm for PCHs but that information gets murky beyond the 5 Series. AMD still relies on 65/40nm bulk for everything that is not a CPU/APU/GPU. The original Atom suffered from the 945GC* as the chipset in a whopping 90nm. The northbridge ended up consuming more power and being larger than the CPU itself. Even the 4 + 1 Terga 3 is in 40nm.
I am sure people wish everything on the board was made in the lowest process available.
Too bad the new AppleTV isn't dual-core enabled. Maybe it could have supported 4.1 compression instead of just 4.0, not to mention more potential for future gaming if they ever allow app sales for it.