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macrumors bot
Original poster
Apr 12, 2001
55,026
17,406


A Vnunet.com article claims that European mobile operators are unwilling to concede to Apple's iPhone partnership demands.
"Operators consistently told us, not for attribution, of course, that they had spoken to Apple and found the company 'unbelievably arrogant', making demands that 'simply cannot be justified no matter how hot the product is'," Avi Greengart, a principal analyst at Current Analysis, wrote in an advisory on Monday.

Several operators went as far as to say they "will never offer the iPhone." It's been widely publicized that Apple has made several unconventional demands of their cell phone carriers. In the U.S., Verizon is reported to have rejected Apple's deal due to the terms of the agreement. Apple's terms with AT&T are rumored to include revenue sharing of the monthly subscriber fees for the iPhone.

The other option is for Apple to sell the iPhone directly to consumers without a Sim card, allowing users to later install one from their mobile provider. This, however, would require Apple to somehow bypass the provider's voicemail to enable their "Visual Voicemail" feature which requires server-side support.
 

loudestnoise

macrumors 6502
May 31, 2005
321
0
Nashville, TN
Poor europeans. They too deserve iPhone. What would be interesting to see if Apple tried their hand as a Mobile Virtual Network Operator (MVNO), like Amp'd, Boost, or Virgin Mobile here in the US.
 

rainydays

macrumors 6502a
Nov 6, 2006
886
0
"Operators consistently told us, not for attribution, of course, that they had spoken to Apple and found the company 'unbelievably arrogant', making demands that 'simply cannot be justified no matter how hot the product is',"

Sounds like Apple alright :)
 

EricNau

Moderator emeritus
Apr 27, 2005
10,718
238
San Francisco, CA
That's not good for the iPhone...

Maybe Apple will have to cave in and lessen their demands, which could be good for the consumer worldwide.
 

darwen

macrumors 6502a
Apr 12, 2005
668
12
California, US
The other option offers is for Apple to sell the iPhone directly to consumers without a Sim card, allowing users to later install one from their mobile provider. This, however, would require Apple to somehow bypass the provider's voicemail to enable their "Visual Voicemail" feature which requires server-side support.

I would love to see that happen... the only explanation for it not happening already is the Voicemail.
 

loudestnoise

macrumors 6502
May 31, 2005
321
0
Nashville, TN
I would love to see that happen... the only explanation for it not happening already is the Voicemail.

You also neglect to realize that the phone is GSM, not CDMA. They are completely two different kinds of wireless networks, so there is other reasons beyond visual voicemail for the iPhone as we know it to work on other carriers. GSM is the most used type of network worldwide, so the current iPhone would work in Europe, but without a SIM would imply it is a CDMA phone, so no. No. um no.
 

MrSmith

macrumors 68040
Nov 27, 2003
3,046
14
I need it spelled out. Is this problem because Apple are acting differently in Europe than America, or becasue the Europeans are acting tougher?
 

inkswamp

macrumors 68030
Jan 26, 2003
2,788
886
Maybe Apple will have to cave in and lessen their demands, which could be good for the consumer worldwide.

Good? Good that Apple will, just to sell more phones, cave in to demands from yet another group of businessmen who have become fat and happy with their income stream and don't want to raise a finger to improve features that they perceive as good enough? C'mon... how is that good? I don't care how you feel about Apple or Steve Jobs or the iPhone, but you have to admit that the way Apple pounces into markets and stirs things up has already yielded loads of improvements that primarily benefits consumers.
 

AlbinoPigeon

macrumors regular
Jan 1, 2004
124
59
Vancouver, BC
You also neglect to realize that the phone is GSM, not CDMA. They are completely two different kinds of wireless networks, so there is other reasons beyond visual voicemail for the iPhone as we know it to work on other carriers. GSM is the most used type of network worldwide, so the current iPhone would work in Europe, but without a SIM would imply it is a CDMA phone, so no. No. um no.


I believe by 'without SIM card' they simply are implying that the phone will just come with an empty SIM card tray and let the user put in a card from whatever (GSM) provider they want. So yeah, then the only problem is the Visual Voicemail.
 

Xenious

macrumors 6502a
Mar 22, 2004
683
44
Texas, USA
Here's a unique thought, all of the iphone features are internet based and the mobile carrier is only responsible for providing connectivity. Damn my blasphemy.
 

maxp1

macrumors regular
Feb 12, 2005
204
0
I bet one of the companies will cave in eventually. Especially if the phone is a hit here there will be demand for it elsewhere. As long as Apple's demands don't make the iPhone unprofitable someone will sell it.
 

samh004

macrumors 68020
Mar 1, 2004
2,222
133
Australia
Serves them right if they're still asking for revenue sharing, what a load of bollocks. Just as the article said, just because it's a hot product, doesn't mean Apple should screw everyone else over.

If it all fails, it'll be their fault, no one elses.

The product might be perfectly fine, but because of their heavy-handed tactics... :rolleyes:

I don't care about visual voice mail so much, if it can't happen here in Asia or Australia, it's not the end of the world for me. I'll live. Perhaps some day it will work, but it doesn't have to be a launch feature, as I can understand that it's going to be tricky to implement for the carriers.
 

macboy62

macrumors regular
Sep 13, 2006
104
0
Tokyo
I need it spelled out. Is this problem because Apple are acting differently in Europe than America, or becasue the Europeans are acting tougher?

I think it may be that in Europe the phone companies are used to ripping the users off, they don't seem to like having to do what they're told. :D

I just hope Apple don't get too big headed about this. There will be other copy cat phones out soon, and with the way the publicity on this is going the public will think it's Apple over charging and choose one of those copy cats and say I got it cheaper.
 

rhapsycats

macrumors newbie
Oct 30, 2005
2
0
Visual VM

I already have visual voice mail using CallWave. I use it on my t-Mobile phone.

With Safari built in, it would work quite well I think.
 

boxandrew

macrumors member
Apr 27, 2005
78
0
Oklahoma, OK
The feeling I get from having owned a cell phone both in the US and in the UK is that cell phone companies are more customer oriented in Europe. Although I don't have any hard evidence to back that up.

When I read this news, the first thought I had was that Apple was probably making demands that the companies thought were bad for the consumer, whatever the demands were... although I am probably wrong.

We have to remember that Europe is a VERY different place to the US and business models are different too. What the customers expect from the cell phone companies is correspondingly different. This is not as simple as "we're more arrogant than you". Purchase discounts work differently and usage plans are structured differently.

Regardless of all these differences that Apple has to come to terms with, at some point one of the carriers is going to reach a compromise agreement, especially if the iPhone does well in the US. It just may take a little longer that it should have...
 

flopticalcube

macrumors G4
Doesn't really matter in the short term anyways. If the iPhone takes off in the US, Apple will probably have to beat them back with a stick. If it doesn't, Apple's demands will have to lessen.

Hopefully Apple will bring some carriers on board soon before rivals' products start to appear.

As an aside, could we save the chest-beating nationalism for the community forum please?
 

Luis

macrumors 65816
Jul 19, 2006
1,227
0
Costa Rica
I don't give a s*** for Visual Voicemail, if giving it up means we can have an unlocked phone then let it be!
 

jwdsail

macrumors 6502a
Mar 3, 2004
520
429
Visual Voicemail...

What I still don't get is why Visual Voicemail was made server-side dependent in the 1st place...

While I'm not a programmer (I don't even play one on TV...), I know a few people that are, and from my talks with them... why can't the iPhone do it like this...

1. iPhone sees what network it is on (SIM card provides this info)
2. iPhone has scripts specific for each network to access the network's voicemail system.
3. iPhone caches and encodes in AAC the voicemails onto internal storage... tags each file/voicemail with caller-ID info.
4. Visual Voicemail feature allows you to flip through these voicemails just like we've been shown.

This would allow the iPhone to be used on ANY GSM network...

What am I missing?


just my $0.02US
 

zap2

macrumors 604
Mar 8, 2005
7,241
1
Washington D.C
wow....I'm suprised.

Apple didn't seem to make demands that no other company could make....the only thing I care about is that I can get my iPhone. Personally I wouldn't mind being able to buy it unlocked here in the US. I just picked up a BlackJack, and may trade it in(have 30days) for the iPhone, but I'm not sure.
 

Dwight Schrute

macrumors member
Jun 7, 2007
35
0
Scranton, PA
I don't give a s*** for Visual Voicemail, if giving it up means we can have an unlocked phone then let it be!

Here, here! In my small-town market, we have Alltel (CDMA) and Cellular One (GSM). Think I'll see an iPhone around here in the next 5 years? I'M not holding my breath.
 
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