Apple Unable to Find iPhone Partner in Europe?

[Object-X]

Who will blink first?

That's not good for the iPhone...

Maybe Apple will have to cave in and lessen their demands, which could be good for the consumer worldwide.

And maybe the carriers will cave when they see how much money and market share they are loosing.

 

[dakis]

Those two statements are very different. Simlock is very legal in the U.S.

Sure, selling a locked phone is legal. But if you can just call your provider and have the phone unlocked, the lock isn't much of a lock, is it.

(http://www.slashphone.com/70/6722.html)

 

[typerlover]

And maybe the carriers will cave when they see how much money and market share they are loosing.

They're not going to be losing any money or marketshare. Apple is entering in as nothing more than a minnow into an ocean. Nokia/Samsung/SE dominate the markets over there, especially nokia. No one is dying for an iPhone there like the sheep over here.

 

[Muffin87]

I'd really give up to the visual voicemail... there aren't many ppl using it by they way, ppl usually like SMS text messages better - here in Italy at least.
Unlocked iPhone sounds really cool but I really don't think it's going to happen, because then Americans would want their iPhones to get unlocked too, Apple knows that and is not going neither to spread discontent through American users nor to give up to the T&T's iPhone exclusivity.
Looks like we are really going to wait here in Europe, moreover it looks like we won't get any iPhone in Italy before the end of the year...

 

[tutubibi]

I'm not talking about prepaid here. Any for your information: in Switzerland (which is also part of Europe, last time I checked), close to all prepaid phones have simlock.

Well, I still have to meet a person in Europe with a locked phone and a region-locked DVD player. Even some of my colleagues working in Switzerland and using Swisscom (I think that's the name) have Swiss purchased unlocked phones (mostly post-paid as it's for business, but without contract).

 

[macjackpro]

Whoever said they were downloaded?

Most countries that I have lived in (Hong Kong, Australia, New Zealand), voice mail costs money to the subscriber. It's not a free service and your usually charged "x" amount of cents per minute you listen to your messages. And everyone know you have to hear them all before you get to the important one at the end, thus spending more money per minute...

Apple's system is that you choose which one you want to listen to as you see them on screen, this means there is a (small) loss of revenue, as now you don't have to wait for every other message to play. And it's not just an iPhone problem, soon everyphone will have visual voice mail, and the carriers will be upset over this.

Plus I don't see how they are able to charge for your time spent listening to message anymore, if they are all downloaded anyway ? Perhaps a monthly fee, perhaps Apple doesn't want any monthly included fees for that to spoil the feature... and perhapswith Apple's other demands of revenue sharing, that'll cost the carrier a lot of money...

 

[Evangelion]

The other option is for Apple to sell the iPhone directly to consumers without a Sim card, allowing users to later install one from their mobile provider. This, however, would require Apple to somehow bypass the provider's voicemail to enable their "Visual Voicemail" feature which requires server-side support.

Just sell the device directly to consumers, and let them choose the operator they want. THAT is the correct way of doing things! Visual voicemail? I don't care one bit about it.

 

[DrFrankTM]

Visual voice mail is an excuse...

I already have visual voice mail using CallWave. I use it on my t-Mobile phone.

With Safari built in, it would work quite well I think.

Not quite sure why everyone ignored your comment, but yeah, CallWave does visual voice mail pretty much exactly the way Apple does it. I have not tested it myself, but I read about it last week and it only added to my frustration about the iPhone. Callwave's visual voice mail works with most (or all?) of the U.S. cellphone service providers, so visual voice mail might be Apple's excuse for hiding something else that they want to impose on the service providers (like a shared-revenue agreement).

Granted, CallWave only works in the U.S. at the moment, but it might be possible to offer it in other parts of the world without taking over everyone's network to rearrange it the way Apple wants. Personally, it's very low on my list of priorities. I just wants a decent internet device that fits in my pocket (and really don't need a two-year plan for a country I don't live in). Give me Safari or Firefox in my pocket with a decent battery life. That's all I need.

 

[EricNau]

Sure, selling a locked phone is legal. But if you can just call your provider and have the phone unlocked, the lock isn't much of a lock, is it.

(http://www.slashphone.com/70/6722.html)

If only it were truly that easy for everyone.

...And keep in mind, about 50% of the people in America don't even have sim cards to unlock.

 

[boxandrew]

Without contracts, phones are insanely expensive.

I don't understand. In the UK, you can get non-contract phones starting at £25 at the most. Check out http://www.tescophones.com/pay-as-you-go/

While that is expensive when you convert it to dollars, once the difference in the cost of living is taken into account, I don't think it's an insane amount.

Do you mean smart phones?

 

[dakis]

Unlocked iPhone sounds really cool but I really don't think it's going to happen,

Me neither - if they start selling them unlocked somewhere in Europe or in Asia, retailers from those countries will sell them back to US customers over the internet - I suppose that would undermine the strict contract Apple has with at&t. I'm willing to bet that Apple would rather not sell any iphones at all in some countries than selling them unlocked and thus threatening their multi-million (if not billion over the years) contract with at&t. I guess the at&t contract alone will generated enough for Apple that they could basically just ignore all the other markets.

So if simlock is illegal in Finland, I guess Fins can kiss the iphone good-bye.

 

[dakis]

I don't understand. In the UK, you can get non-contract phones starting at £25 at the most. Check out http://www.tescophones.com/pay-as-you-go/

While that is expensive when you convert it to dollars, once the difference in the cost of living is taken into account, I don't think it's an insane amount.

Do you mean smart phones?

I mean decent phones with color-displays No, seriously: how much is a Nokia e-series or n-series phone without a contract in the UK?
There certainly are low-end phones here, too. But people who buy 100 CHF phones won't be interested in the iPhone, would they.

 

[donlphi]

they'll come around. especially if it does good here in the US

...and when the iPhone DOES do well in the U.S., Apple will up their demands to the european providers.

It's much more interesting than any soap opera on T.V. (so it seems)

 

[McBain2]

It took awhile for Apple and Europe to come to terms with the iTunes music store as well. Eventually, European countries, one by one, came into the fold. I suspect the same will be true with the iPhone. Once the iPhone catches on and European countries realize what they are missing out on the details will be ironed out.

And for those European companies that are apparently SO OFFENDED that they will NEVER offer an iPhone...Notice how none of those companies are going on record and putting their names to those comments. Gee, I wonder why...

 

[EricNau]

I mean decent phones with color-displays No, seriously: how much is a Nokia e-series or n-series phone without a contract in the UK?
There certainly are low-end phones here, too. But people who buy 100 CHF phones won't be interested in the iPhone, would they.

In the US about $400-$600 without contract/service. Interestingly enough, the iPhone is in the same price range, WITH contract.

 

[dakis]

Well, I still have to meet a person in Europe with a locked phone and a region-locked DVD player. Even some of my colleagues working in Switzerland and using Swisscom (I think that's the name) have Swiss purchased unlocked phones (mostly post-paid as it's for business, but without contract).

If they use Swisscom (post-paid), they have a contract of at least 12 months. If they didn't insist on getting a subsidized phone with that, it's their own fault.

Apart from that - you just met one: I have both a locked phone (pre-paid, using that as a second phone for work) and a region-locked DVD player.

 

[dakis]

In the US about $400-$600 without contract/service. Interestingly enough, the iPhone is in the same price range, WITH contract.

A Nokia N95 costs about 600$-800$ here without a contract. I would call that insanely expensive.

 

[tutubibi]

It took awhile for Apple and Europe to come to terms with the iTunes music store as well. Eventually, European countries, one by one, came into the fold. I suspect the same will be true with the iPhone. Once the iPhone catches on and European countries realize what they are missing out on the details will be ironed out.

And for those European companies that are apparently SO OFFENDED that they will NEVER offer an iPhone...Notice how none of those companies are going on record and putting their names to those comments. Gee, I wonder why...

I, for one, really wish for operators not to give in to Apple. Apple is making a device but that device needs network to work on. If Apple wishes to expand beyond 50M potential customers in North America, it might be forced to offer unlocked device and potentially change the landscape in NA as well.

 

[dscottbuch]

In the US about $400-$600 without contract/service. Interestingly enough, the iPhone is in the same price range, WITH contract.

And you know this how? (the contract) Apple has removed this requirement from their adds. We don't know what's going to be the case at this time.

 

[sjo]

I think the real problem for Apple is that the iPhone is just not that hot in Europa/Asia as it is in the US. A 2G phone with 2mpix camera without GPS, availability end of 2007 at €500-600?? No wonder no operator is willing to give in to any Apples demand... Apple might consider selling it at €300 through Apple store without sim-lock. If it sells ok, they can try negotiating with the operators again with second generation iPhone in 2008. They might need to add mobile tv into it in addition to GPS, 5mpix camera and front facing camera by then.

 

[tutubibi]

Apart from that - you just met one: I have both a locked phone (pre-paid, using that as a second phone for work) and a region-locked DVD player.

Slightly off-topic: Locked phone I can understand somehow, but region-locked DVD player? How hard you had to look for those?

 

[dakis]

It may be located on the European continent but check your politics - Switzerland is NOT part of the EU. Still have their own currency, etc.

Ok, this is starting to become pointless.
Sweden is a member of the EU but has retained its own currency. So are Poland and Hungary etc. The EU is a very loose conglomerate of independent countries, each with huge differences in their political systems and laws.

I'm willing to bet that Swiss laws are much more similar to the few EU-wide laws than those in Hungary or Poland are compared to EU standards.

 

[EricNau]

A Nokia N95 costs about 600$-800$ here without a contract. I would call that insanely expensive.

Yes, the N95 (which for some reason wasn't listed on their webstite) is $750 here in the US. Although, according to Wikipedia, "No US carriers are expected to offer this phone," so getting the N95 with contract isn't even an option.

Keep in mind though, the N95 is not a fair comparison to the iPhone.

 

[boxandrew]

The problem we seem to be having is coming to terms with the diverse nature of European countries. There are countries that are part of the EU and there are countries that aren't. Then, inside the EU there are countries with their own currency and countries with the Euro. I would think Switzerland is as typical as any other.

I only know about the UK, which is in the EU, but still uses the pound. In the UK many phones (I have no idea how many) are sold without contract, but the higher end ones are indeed insanely expensive as pay as you go. However, I am in the US and although I currently have the cheapest phone you can buy, I would spend the cash for the iPhone if I could. The market for the iPhone is different to something like the N95.

Region locked DVD player? I wouldn't know where to look in England!

 

[verniesgarden]

I, for one, really wish for operators not to give in to Apple. Apple is making a device but that device needs network to work on. If Apple wishes to expand beyond 50M potential customers in North America, it might be forced to offer unlocked device and potentially change the landscape in NA as well.

I hope technology companies realize how small the world is getting and how fast it's getting there. many people travel all over the world and a universal network would be a great advancement

I know competition is a great way to innovate but so it collaboration, if there is a common go to better the structure of a network then we could be light-years ahead of where we are now...


I have to quote a teacher of mine from grade school even
"Imagine if all the companies and all the politicians in the world redirected the resources they use to compete against each other towards the common goal that they have between them, the distance travelled would be inches to miles"