Apple Unable to Find iPhone Partner in Europe?

[Project]

Jarcrew makes the main point; I see the airtime providers having a real issue with that iTunes activation process.



Jules

Lets hope not. I cant wait too long for this phone

Hopefully one of the providers sees the insane amount of publicity the iPhone is getting (and perhaps superb sales) and takes the pill.

Im hoping for an iPhone by October with a sensible data plan.

 

[DanWan]

What?

I think it may be that in Europe the phone companies are used to ripping the users off, they don't seem to like having to do what they're told.

Did you ever cross the oceans surrounding your country buddy? In Europe cellphones are everywhere, not locked in as in the USandA. They are cheap, convenient, easy to use and land lines are daying.

Who told you phone companies rip off customers?

 

[ABM]

I think it may be that in Europe the phone companies are used to ripping the users off, they don't seem to like having to do what they're told.

Did you ever cross the oceans surrounding your country buddy? In Europe cellphones are everywhere, not locked in as in the USandA. They are cheap, convenient, easy to use and land lines are daying.

Who told you phone companies rip off customers?

And Europeans had much more modern cellphones for a long time.

 

[Morpheu5]

And Europeans had much more modern cellphones for a long time.

Speaking of Italy, moreover, (...) I must say that I see a pretty difficult market for the iPhone because Italians customers are used to do things like change the wallpaper, the screensaver, the ringtone, install new games and applications, do various levels of modding and even the top managers like to do it on a weekly basis just because it makes them look more cool.

I know that the iPhone is a coolness-point bonus for the owners but I think it's not enough for the majority of the EU market. Nokia got this first and it's probably the EU mobiles top seller because you can change the operator logo, the wallpaper, the ringtones - from polyphonic midi files to mp3s - install java games and apps of thirds and all the other things.

I'd be glad to see that my words will be vanished by the iPhone but sadly I don't think so.

 

[dakis]

I think it may be that in Europe the phone companies are used to ripping the users off, they don't seem to like having to do what they're told.

Did you ever cross the oceans surrounding your country buddy? In Europe cellphones are everywhere, not locked in as in the USandA. They are cheap, convenient, easy to use and land lines are daying.

Who told you phone companies rip off customers?

Are we talking about the same Europe here? First of all - the iPhone is a smartphone - not a normal phone. And last time I checked, smartphones were expensive as heck here in Switzerland, land lines are far from dying, and voice and data plans are extremely expensive. Also - in how far would a Nokia N95 sold in Europe be more convenient than a Nokia N95 sold in the US? (for the same price, btw.)?

 

[Compile 'em all]

Nokia got this first and it's probably the EU mobiles top seller because you can change the operator logo, the wallpaper, the ringtones - from polyphonic midi files to mp3s - install java games and apps of thirds and all the other things.

You can already do the stuff you just mentioned with just about every phone nowadays yet none offers what the iPhone has to offer in terms of usability and style.

 

[Morpheu5]

You can already do the stuff you just mentioned with just about every phone nowadays yet none offers what the iPhone has to offer in terms of usability and style.

The point is that we already have usable phones (see Nokia which are really easy) and very few in the EU would need an iPhone if they cannot simply install whatever they want and customize it the way they can with the phones they already have. It's a matter of point of views, I guess.

There's no doubt that the iPhone brings style (sure it does) but this is the only real thing I see about it and you'll pardon me if I don't see it as a real value to the product. I mean, if I'd need an iPod, I'd buy an iPod. If I'd need a PDA I'd buy a Palm (on which I can install whatever I want and even code my own apps). If I'd need a phone, I'd buy a Simenes or a Nokia (maybe evolved ones on which I can change ringtones and such).

I think it's clear to anyone that the iPhone is cool. I know it's cool but I really can't see it as more than an expensive gizmo. But that kind of coolness fades away with the days.

I'd personally will consider buying an iPhone (and throw away my Siemens phone, my Palm PDA and my CD player) if it will come as an open platform, not stick to one or two operators (I don't want to change my SIM card and eventually my number) and if I'd win the lottery

These are to me primary factors in the choice of a mobile phone. Only after this I will certainly consider the coolness factor as a real (still secondary) additional value.

EDIT:

smartphones were expensive as heck here in Switzerland

Here we'd may need to argue whether Switzerland is in Europe but whatever

Yes, smartphones are expensive (around 200-300 euros) but regular phones are not. I mean, my latest one costed about 80 euros and it's a good one. I see many new models around 150 euros. You may say this is expensive (yes, they are) but consider that my mom just bought a Telit for about 30 euros... this is not expensive at all.

 

[Compile 'em all]

The point is that we already have usable phones (see Nokia which are really easy) and very few in the EU would need an iPhone if they cannot simply install whatever they want and customize it the way they can with the phones they already have. It's a matter of point of views, I guess.

No. I don't think so. The arguments you have are almost the same exact ones used against the iPod when it was first released. Heck, till this day the iPod lacks features that even the ********* mp3 players out there have (read: FM radio), yet it has around 70% of the market.

There's no doubt that the iPhone brings style (sure it does) but this is the only real thing I see about it and you'll pardon me if I don't see it as a real value to the product. I mean, if I'd need an iPod, I'd buy an iPod.

 

[Morpheu5]

No. I don't think so. The arguments you have are almost the same exact ones used against the iPod when it was first released. Heck, till this day the iPod lacks features that even the ********* mp3 players out there have (read: FM radio), yet it has around 70% of the market.

And this is the same counterargument I've ever seen for ages. The iPod is an mp3/video player and there's no doubt it's cool but there's basically no difference between the American and European mp3 players market. Though sure the iPod lacks the FM radio, it is 98% the thing one would want speaking of a cool mp3 player.

The iPhone is a device that has around 40-50% the features that typical *European* mobile phone users would want in a mobile phone. I think it's a matter of point of view. If in America you don't need the customization stuff that's ok and you'll be just happy with the iPhone but the point is not America, it's Europe. People think different all around the world. Quite differently.

Please explain me this, I really can't get the joke

--- EDIT
http://www.macworld.com/2007/07/firstlooks/iphone_wishlist/index.php
I mostly agree with this article, too.

 

[Compile 'em all]

And this is the same counterargument I've ever seen for ages. The iPod is an mp3/video player and there's no doubt it's cool but there's basically no difference between the American and European mp3 players market. Though sure the iPod lacks the FM radio, it is 98% the thing one would want speaking of a cool mp3 player.

The iPhone is a device that has around 40-50% the features that typical *European* mobile phone users would want in a mobile phone. I think it's a matter of point of view. If in America you don't need the customization stuff that's ok and you'll be just happy with the iPhone but the point is not America, it's Europe. People think different all around the world. Quite differently.

I really don't know from where are you pulling out those generalizations but definitely 80% of the people everywhere don't need the customizations you are talking of. These 80% have no clue what a mobile Java application is. The average Joe will go into a phone store, go to the coolest looking phone, take a photo or too with it, then move on to the cashier. Only me and you base our decisions on a datasheet or a spec list.

I know the market is different in Europe and things like the lack of 3G might (I think not) impact the iPhone, but the iPhone is novel enough to make up for the lacking of some features.

 

[Morpheu5]

I really don't know from where are you pulling out those generalizations but definitely 80% of the people everywhere

I think either you've never been in Europe or in Italy (or both) and I can't say this is a fault but I'm not generalizing at all, simply you may don't have a touch of the real thing that's going here around, I do and maybe more than you.

Anyway you're right, people don't choose a phone looking at the specs simply because the great majority of the phones that are sold here have those specs by default and people even don't care of looking if they're there or not. That's why they point the first Nokia, LG or whatever and go to the cashier. But when I went to the shop looking for a 30 euros mobile phone, I carefully skipped all those customization things and I found it quite difficult to find a phone that's just a phone and sms terminal and costed less than 60 euros just because here they're hardly sold.

Even if it may be true that the 80% of people don't need all that stuff (and I think it's more than 80%) they also don't want to pay 500-600 euros for a phone without them (or with a few of them) and it's not important how cool it is, they'd buy it for 150, 200 or even 250 (because of it's an Apple product and it's cool, of course). Definitely not 600.

http://www.ciao.it/I_Mate_Kjam_Qb__621453

Here is a smartphone which is not so cool but does act as a smartphone. We're talking of the iPhone as an 8GB iPod video with data and voice connectivity, email, calendar, maps (without GPS) and operating system that takes about 200MB on the storage. Pardon me, I'd bet it's a smartphone but heck, it sure doesn't act like that.

 

[ABM]

Comparing some prices (Germany)

Nokia N95 is about 300,- € with new contract
Nokia E61i is about 130,- € with new contract
Blackberry RIM 8800 is about 90-185,- € with new contract
Blackberry Pearl 8100 is about 10-20,- € with new contract
Palm Treo 750 is about 160,- € with new contract
HTC Touch is about 50,- € with new contract
SE P1i is about 230,- € with new contract


... so i don't see an iPhone price about 600,- € with new contract in Europe (, yet)!

 

[Compile 'em all]

I think either you've never been in Europe or in Italy (or both) and I can't say this is a fault but I'm not generalizing at all, simply you may don't have a touch of the real thing that's going here around, I do and maybe more than you.

I actually live in Europe just like you do. So your point is moot.

Even if it may be true that the 80% of people don't need all that stuff (and I think it's more than 80%) they also don't want to pay 500-600 euros for a phone without them (or with a few of them) and it's not important how cool it is, they'd buy it for 150, 200 or even 250 (because of it's an Apple product and it's cool, of course). Definitely not 600.

Just to make it clear for you. The iPhone will not retail for 600 euros. It will be around the 450 euros mark and It will be launched in the mid october to mid November time frame.

Here is a smartphone which is not so cool but does act as a smartphone.

A phone that runs Windows Mobile is not a smart phone. Sorry. I occasionally have to use a couple of Windows Mobile phones at work for demo purposes and I swear to god I lose a couple of IQ points each time I do.

 

[ABM]

Just to make it clear for you. The iPhone will not retail for 600 euros. It will be around the 450 euros mark.

That's the point i tried to show off with my little price comparison above.

A phone that runs Windows Mobile is not a smart phone. Sorry. I occasionally have to use a couple of Windows Mobile phones at work for demo purposes and I swear to god I lose a couple of IQ points each time I do.

I am so happy that i have not to use MS Windows on my computer at home so why shoul i use Windows on a mobile phone?

 

[ABM]

Any news?

 

[ABM]

≈ ≈ S I L E N C E ≈ ≈


? ? ?​

Retrouvez ici notre nouveau dossier sur l'iPhone

Selon les informations de nos confrères de Relaxnews, l'iPhone serait lancé en France avec l'opérateur Orange, dans la foulée du salon Apple Expo, qui se tiendra à Paris du 25 au 29 septembre 2007. Cela confirme les toutes dernières rumeurs. Contacté par LCI.fr, Orange ne confirme pas l'information mais refuse de la démentir.

Le téléphone-baladeur d'Apple a commencé sa carrière le 29 juin dernier aux Etats-Unis. Vendu avec l'opérateur AT&T, le produit high-tech le plus attendu de l'année s'est écoulé à au moins 146.000 exemplaires activés lors des deux premiers jours de sa commercialisation.

Le quotidien britannique Financial Times avait révélé début juillet que l'iPhone ne serait d'abord commercialisé que dans trois pays européens, à savoir la France, le Royaume-Uni avec l'opérateur O2, et l'Allemagne avec T-Mobile L'appareil devrait être disponible dans le reste du vieux continent ainsi qu'en Asie en début d'année 2008.

source: http://tf1.lci.fr/infos/high-tech/0,,3522336,00-iphone-sera-orange-.html


Any other news?

 

[ABM]

Mittwoch, 22. August 2007
iPhone-Einführung
T-Mobile macht Zugeständnisse

Der US-Computerhersteller Apple hat im Zusammenhang mit der Einführung seines neuen iPhones in Europa den Netzbetreibern weitgehende Zugeständnisse abgerungen. Um das Mobiltelefon in Deutschland exklusiv verkaufen zu dürfen, müsse T- Mobile ein Zehntel der mit dem iPhone erzielten Umsätze an Apple abtreten, berichtet die "Financial Times Deutschland".

Entsprechende Verträge haben auch Orange für Frankreich und O2 für Großbritannien vor wenigen Tagen abgeschlossen. Die Partnerschaften sollen Ende August auf der Internationalen Funkausstellung in Berlin verkündet werden. Das iPhone wird im Weihnachtsgeschäft erstmals in Europa verkauft.

T-Mobile wollte sich laut "FTD" zu dem Thema nicht äußern. Nach Einschätzung von Branchenexperten werden die mit Apple geschlossenen Verträge nun Begehrlichkeiten bei anderen Handyherstellern wecken. "Ist die Umsatzbeteilung erst einmal eingeführt, werden sie die nie wieder los", sagte Philipp Geiger, Telekom-Experte der Unternehmensberatung Solon. "Der iPhone-Zuschlag ist für jeden Netzbetreiber eine positive Nachricht. Durch die lange Exklusivität kann das positive Auswirkungen auf das Image haben", sagte Telekomexperte Roman Friedrich von der Unternehmensberatung Booz Allen Hamilton.

source: http://www.n-tv.de/842039.html

Apple schröpft Telekom beim iPhone
von Astrid Maier (Hamburg) und Volker Müller (München)
Apple hat zur Einführung seines neuen iPhone in Europa den Netzbetreibern weitgehende Zugeständnisse abgerungen. T-Mobile gewährt dem US-Konzern eine hohe Umsatzbeteiligung.

Um das Mobiltelefon in Deutschland exklusiv verkaufen zu dürfen, muss T-Mobile nach Informationen der FTD ein Zehntel der Umsätze, die die Telekom-Sparte mit iPhone-Kunden erzielt, an Apple abtreten. Entsprechende Verträge haben auch Orange für Frankreich und O2 für Großbritannien vor wenigen Tagen abgeschlossen.

Die Partnerschaften sollen Ende August auf der Internationalen Funkausstellung in Berlin verkündet werden. Das iPhone wird im Weihnachtsgeschäft erstmals in Europa verkauft. T-Mobile wollte sich zu dem Thema nicht äußern.

Die Verträge rütteln an dem traditionellen Verhältnis zwischen Netzbetreibern und Handyherstellern. Zum ersten Mal wird ein Gerätelieferant an den Telefonie- und Datenumsätzen im Mobilfunk beteiligt. Dagegen hatten sich die Netzbetreiber in Europa bisher unisono gewehrt. Nach Einschätzung von Branchenexperten werden die mit Apple geschlossenen Verträge nun Begehrlichkeiten bei anderen Handyherstellern wecken. "Ist die Umsatzbeteiligung erst einmal eingeführt, werden sie die nie wieder los", sagte Philipp Geiger, Telekomexperte der Unternehmensberatung Solon. Der Apple-Vertrag könnte sich deshalb als Bumerang für die Mobilfunker erweisen.

Das iPhone gilt als imageförderndes Prestigehandy. So hatte sich in den USA für ein zweijähriges Exklusivabkommen auch der Telekomkonzern AT&T auf eine Umsatzbeteiligung eingelassen. Deren Höhe ist nicht bekannt.

Ein iPhone im Sortiment ist für die Deutsche Telekom von strategischer Bedeutung. Der Konzern versucht mit Nachdruck, seinen Ruf, behäbig und wenig serviceorientiert zu sein, loszuwerden. "Der iPhone-Zuschlag ist für jeden Netzbetreiber eine positive Nachricht. Durch die lange Exklusivität kann das positive Auswirkungen auf das Image haben", sagte Telekomexperte Roman Friedrich von der Unternehmensberatung Booz Allen Hamilton.

source: http://ftd.de/technik/it_telekommunikation/:Apple Telekom/242238.html


So what are the "facts":
- European iPhone Announcement: Aug 31st – Sept 05th, IFA, Berlin
- European Provider:
France: Orange
UK: O2
Germany: T-Mobile
- Apple's participation in sales: ~10 %

 

[illitrate23]

most of those facts were also mentioned in an FT article today. either this leads credability to them, or they've all got their stories from the same dodgey source:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e54a6d9c-5047-11dc-a6b0-0000779fd2ac.html

 

[koobcamuk]

Are we talking about the same Europe here? First of all - the iPhone is a smartphone - not a normal phone. And last time I checked, smartphones were expensive as heck here in Switzerland, land lines are far from dying, and voice and data plans are extremely expensive. Also - in how far would a Nokia N95 sold in Europe be more convenient than a Nokia N95 sold in the US? (for the same price, btw.)?

In the UK I would say that even smart phones are given for free on many contracts. Not only that, but I would also say that landlines are dying out. You can get internet at home with your mobile operator - less and less people use land lines. At work, they are a must, but at home, I use my mobile. It's 3G too.

The N95 does have a fanbase in the USA - lots of people import it. We have it for free on many plans and it's an amazing device. If they price the iPhone too high - it won't sell as well. People want GPS and other things that they rarely use, at least that's what I hear when I talk to people.

I mean - it's free here for goodness sake...

http://www.mobilephonesdirect.co.uk...ey=nokia n95&gclid=CN6rxOmDjo4CFQQdEgodWD1gDw