Apple Unable to Find iPhone Partner in Europe?

[junky]

Revolutionary user experience ?

I just don't get it why people are saying that IPhone is so userfriendly, as it can not be even operated by one hand ! It is very important at least for me when e.g writing SMS's while driving etc. That you can not simply do with Iphone ! It reminds me about mighty mouse with one button

 

[emotion]

I just don't get it why people are saying that IPhone is so userfriendly, as it can not be even operated by one hand ! It is very important at least for me when e.g writing SMS's while driving etc.

So, you one of those people that SMSs while driving?

Jeez.

 

[Philsy]

I just don't get it why people are saying that IPhone is so userfriendly, as it can not be even operated by one hand ! It is very important at least for me when e.g writing SMS's while driving etc. That you can not simply do with Iphone ! It reminds me about mighty mouse with one button

I hope you're joking about texting while driving...

 

[jwkay]

I hope you're joking about texting while driving...

Yeah, the guy in front of me drove off the road doing just this yesterday

 

[Philsy]

Yeah, the guy in front of me drove off the road doing just this yesterday

Of course, Americans probably don't worry about such things, being a nation that drinks coffee while driving...

 

[sananda]

I just don't get it why people are saying that IPhone is so userfriendly, as it can not be even operated by one hand ! It is very important at least for me when e.g writing SMS's while driving etc. That you can not simply do with Iphone ! It reminds me about mighty mouse with one button

please tell me you're joking about texting while driving.

 

[junky]

please tell me you're joking about texting while driving.

Not joking. Actually it is easy if you are used to SMS with keypad. You don't need to look at your phone all the time. You just remember by heart how many times to push keypad and their location. My wife does this also a lot, so it is not just some geeky mans thing

Actually she does it also when cooking, cleaning or taking care kids etc. So this is handy when you need to do many things simultaneously and need to have one hand free ....

 

[sananda]

Not joking. Actually it is easy if you are used to SMS with keypad. You don't need to look at your phone all the time. You just remember by heart how many times to push keypad and their location. My wife does this also a lot, so it is not just some geeky mans thing

Actually she does it also when cooking, cleaning or taking care kids etc. So this is handy when you need to do many things simultaneously and need to have one hand free ....

what country do you live in? here in the uk it's illegal to do that. quite rightly because it's very dangerous.

 

[i0Nic]

Not joking. Actually it is easy if you are used to SMS with keypad. You don't need to look at your phone all the time. You just remember by heart how many times to push keypad and their location. My wife does this also a lot, so it is not just some geeky mans thing

Actually she does it also when cooking, cleaning or taking care kids etc. So this is handy when you need to do many things simultaneously and need to have one hand free ....

That's illegal here in Australia. The difference with texting while cooking or cleaning is that taking your eyes off the vaccuum for a split second has no chance of resulting in death, unlike while driving..

 

[Philsy]

Not joking. Actually it is easy if you are used to SMS with keypad. You don't need to look at your phone all the time. You just remember by heart how many times to push keypad and their location. My wife does this also a lot, so it is not just some geeky mans thing

Actually she does it also when cooking, cleaning or taking care kids etc. So this is handy when you need to do many things simultaneously and need to have one hand free ....

That is very dangerous. I hope she doesn't end up killing anyone....

 

[Lumi]

One thing that has not been pointed out so far is that in the EU, Apple cannot fix the price of the iPhone as they do in the US. In the EU it is illegal practice for a manufacturer to fix the price that a retailer sells it's products for, manufacturers can recommend a retail price and control the price of units they sell to retailers, but if a retailer chooses to discount the price of a product or sell it at a loss, then the retailer can do this. Apple cannot force an EU network to sell the iPhone at a specific price, if it does so it is breaking the law.

This means that networks in the EU will be able to subsidise the cost of an iPhone from day 1, unlike AT&T which has it's price imposed by Apple. In the EU it is more likely that Apple will offer the phone on multiple operators and that it will also offer the device without contract so that it can show the "retail price" of the device in comparison to other Apple products in the iPod line, otherwise it would feel like the product was being devalued by a network offering it at a discount with a contract.

As for 3G, I am not sure if this will be in the initial release of the iPhone, there would be documents filed about this already for the relevant EC approvals for the 3G transmitter. I do think however that Apple could easily produce an MMS extension for OSXiPhone to cater for the Euro market, it is only software required for this as the camera is already present, such a thing would be very easy to add.

 

[gnasher729]

That is very dangerous. I hope she doesn't end up killing anyone....

Depends. If husband and wife have the same mental attitude, and as long as they don't have children...

What are you waffling on about exactly?

I think it's a mystery to a lot of us.

What he is talking about: If you sell something in one country of the EU, you cannot prevent anyone from another country from buying it. And you cannot prevent anyone from selling it in other countries. So if Apple sells iPhones lets say in the UK, then they cannot prevent anyone from buying 10,000 iPhones in the USA and selling them in the Netherlands.

That doesn't mean, however, that they have to do anything to make it work in other countries. And using those phones in the Netherlands without the equivalent of an FCC license might be illegal.

 

[ts1973]

What he is talking about: If you sell something in one country of the EU, you cannot prevent anyone from another country from buying it. And you cannot prevent anyone from selling it in other countries. So if Apple sells iPhones lets say in the UK, then they cannot prevent anyone from buying 10,000 iPhones in the USA and selling them in the Netherlands.

That doesn't mean, however, that they have to do anything to make it work in other countries. And using those phones in the Netherlands without the equivalent of an FCC license might be illegal.

This is completely correct. There's free trade of goods inside the EU, and I can buy anything in the UK or whereever in Europe and transport this to my country, no questions asked and completely legal. Of course : nobody says it will actually work in my own country

To continue on the previous poster as well : you indeed cannot "fix" prices in Europe, governments are very picky on this, however, you cannot sell anything with a loss either, this is illegal as well, except during "clear-out" sales periods. Actually, some online and other shops already sell Apple stuff a little cheaper than the Applestore, but because the margins with Apple are so small, so are the price differences. Things could get different with the iPhone though, because unlike the iPod, you need a provider (and a subscription) to make the iPhone work...

 

[unclewinkie]

that really sucks

 

[Ugg]

I just don't get it why people are saying that IPhone is so userfriendly, as it can not be even operated by one hand ! It is very important at least for me when e.g writing SMS's while driving etc. That you can not simply do with Iphone ! It reminds me about mighty mouse with one button

..

Let me be the first to nominate you for a Darwin Award. Here's hoping the end is painless and that nobody else, other than your wife of course, is hurt in the process.

 

[Philsy]

This is completely correct. There's free trade of goods inside the EU, and I can buy anything in the UK or whereever in Europe and transport this to my country, no questions asked and completely legal. Of course : nobody says it will actually work in my own country

To continue on the previous poster as well : you indeed cannot "fix" prices in Europe, governments are very picky on this, however, you cannot sell anything with a loss either, this is illegal as well, except during "clear-out" sales periods. Actually, some online and other shops already sell Apple stuff a little cheaper than the Applestore, but because the margins with Apple are so small, so are the price differences. Things could get different with the iPhone though, because unlike the iPod, you need a provider (and a subscription) to make the iPhone work...

Are you sure that you cannot sell something at a loss? I think in the UK supermarkets sell some items, say tins of beans, at a loss simply to tempt people into the stores.

 

[andrei14]

I have a question... how come apple built a GSM phone and it's having troubles selling it to European companies?

 

[LizKat]

provider calling Apple ARROGANT ? takes one to know one!

I dunno about European providers but I'll tell about the American cell-cos.

Their arrogance only STARTS when you live in a dead zone at the margin of one provider's turf and that provider is allowed to sell you a national plan contract with fine print that says oh btw if you make too many of your calls off towers in the turf next door to ours, then we'll cancel your contract because you'll be costing us money, but that guy next door is not supposed to sell you a plan because your zip code is in our turf.

And I say, uh... WHAT?? You sell me a plan and a phone so I can get no service in my house but I can make calls anywhere as long as most of them bounce off your towers? (which around here are not where I tend to go)?

Nice. OK, so I signed up. Verizon was the lucky contract maker. I put about six minutes a month on that plan, and then maybe twice I year I might run up a couple hundred if I'm lucky enough to spend some time where there's service and I'm not in danger of calling from borrowed towers. Lifetime on the moto e815 is like four hours... in 18 months...

What I did about my daily living next was call up Cingular and say look I live in the Verizon dead zone (Cingular and Verizon both know about it) and I have a plan with Verizon but almost 98% of my calls would originate from your turf. Give me a number for the Cingular-served town where I like to dine out and shop, 41 miles from my residence, and I promise not to whine when I have no service where I live because I already have no service where I live and I pay Verizon for that no service, so no big deal...

Took about 25 minutes of arm wrestling on the phone and detailing my entire geophysical lifestyle preferences to a total stranger at the Cingular end of the conversation, but she must have been a good ol' gal living in the sticks somewhere like me, because she finally wrote up the deal.

But... be warned.. i could not get that deal to go through online, I had to do it with a rep on the phone. The website back then at least insisted on making a link between "where I live" and "where I think I want ever to make a lot of cell phone calls from." No such link actually exists in the lives of most rural and plenty suburban Americans.

And I know hundreds of people with multiple cell plans plus land lines because of no service where they live and turf wars in the DIFFERING areas where they want to be able to phone from at different times.

If we had a sane setup (yes, some regulation that favored a consumer instead of all the providers) in the USA, any family could have one cell plan and not worry whether driving due north, southeast or northwest on Tuesday morning...

Talk about arrogance. And greed. Enough with any cell provider calling Apple arrogant. Let these providers cower in their glass houses even thinking to throw such stones.

 

[Lumi]

Are you sure that you cannot sell something at a loss? I think in the UK supermarkets sell some items, say tins of beans, at a loss simply to tempt people into the stores.

This is true, you can sell something at a loss, it's called a "loss leader" you sell one popular item at a loss in the hope that the customer will do business with you and buy other things which do make a profit as part of the same transaction, this is legal practice in the EU.

Mobile phone companies already do this with handsets, because they know you will spend money on the contract and pay for calls, text messages and other premium services.

 

[Rocketman]

The AT&T commercial running in heavy rotation in the USA right now for their Blackberry service and hardware sales, states they have the "broadest international coverage".

To me, this indicates AT&T is the international carrier for iPhone. If so and if iPhone does what AT+T claims:

- Makes post-pay customers more sticky
- Attracts more post-pay (good credit and commitment) and pre-pay (credit and commitment independent - formerly bad credit) customers
- Encourages data "overpays" of $20 per month on average
- Encourages "switching"
- Attracts traffic to stores to cause low-end product sales

Then Apple and AT&T are about to hit a worldwide home-run. I believe it.

I further think AT&T is not stupid and felt the lack of love for Apple on its terms so got Apple to agree to 5 not 2 years and international not domestic only. Everybody knows Verizon was Apple's first choice. Verizon rejected them hard.

Rocketman

 

[ts1973]

This is true, you can sell something at a loss, it's called a "loss leader" you sell one popular item at a loss in the hope that the customer will do business with you and buy other things which do make a profit as part of the same transaction, this is legal practice in the EU.

I'll have to look into that. I'm 100% sure that it's illegal here in Belgium (I ran into this law once ), and thought it was EU regulation. Maybe it's a national law here.

 

[rainydays]

Not joking. Actually it is easy if you are used to SMS with keypad. You don't need to look at your phone all the time. You just remember by heart how many times to push keypad and their location. My wife does this also a lot, so it is not just some geeky mans thing

You should both have your drivers licenses removed.

 

[EricNau]

The AT&T commercial running in heavy rotation in the USA right now for their Blackberry service and hardware sales, states they have the "broadest international coverage".

To me, this indicates AT&T is the international carrier for iPhone. If so and if iPhone does what AT+T claims:

- Makes post-pay customers more sticky
- Attracts more post-pay (good credit and commitment) and pre-pay (credit and commitment independent - formerly bad credit) customers
- Encourages data "overpays" of $20 per month on average
- Encourages "switching"
- Attracts traffic to stores to cause low-end product sales

Then Apple and AT&T are about to hit a worldwide home-run. I believe it.

I further think AT&T is not stupid and felt the lack of love for Apple on its terms so got Apple to agree to 5 not 2 years and international not domestic only. Everybody knows Verizon was Apple's first choice. Verizon rejected them hard.

Rocketman

Are you implying that AT&T has wireless coverage outside of US territory? ...I certainly can't find any evidence of this, can you?

AT&T is claiming that they have "The largest international coverage of any U.S. carrier, giving customers the ability to make calls on 6 continents and 190 countries, with wireless data roaming in over 120 countries for laptops, PDAs, and other data services." Link

I believe (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that AT&T is simply claiming that their phones & service are compatible with other networks worldwide, not that they control wireless coverage worldwide. ...If this were the case, AT&T would have to contract with these other companies inorder to be the sole provider of the iPhone internationally.

 

[Philsy]

Are you implying that AT&T has wireless coverage outside of US territory? ...I certainly can't find any evidence of this, can you?

AT&T is claiming that they have "The largest international coverage of any U.S. carrier, giving customers the ability to make calls on 6 continents and 190 countries, with wireless data roaming in over 120 countries for laptops, PDAs, and other data services." Link

I believe (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that AT&T is simply claiming that their phones & service are compatible with other networks worldwide, not that they control wireless coverage worldwide. ...If this were the case, AT&T would have to contract with these other companies inorder to be the sole provider of the iPhone internationally.

Maybe it's like the baseball 'World' series

 

[mst0192]

Are you implying that AT&T has wireless coverage outside of US territory? ...I certainly can't find any evidence of this, can you?

AT&T is claiming that they have "The largest international coverage of any U.S. carrier, giving customers the ability to make calls on 6 continents and 190 countries, with wireless data roaming in over 120 countries for laptops, PDAs, and other data services." Link

I believe (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that AT&T is simply claiming that their phones & service are compatible with other networks worldwide, not that they control wireless coverage worldwide. ...If this were the case, AT&T would have to contract with these other companies inorder to be the sole provider of the iPhone internationally.

it's not about that at&t are compatible, it's about roaming. it means that at&t has roaming-partners (who provide access on their networks for your at&t-phone) in 190 countries.

if my phone uses the same gsm/3g/whatever standard as a network in a foreign country, doesnt mean that i can use this network with my phone. -> only if my provider/network has a roaming-agreement with this particular foreign network.