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Wouldn't it be impossible / illegal to use a computer to enjoy copyrighted material then? The way computers work is by making copies. Stream the copy from the source on the server, load the copy into memory, send a copy to the GPU for decode, etc etc.

No. The owners of copyrighted material can grant permission to use copies etc. Point is you need permission first. You do read your software's or software's provider EULAs* right? Almost all have some clause granting permission to make copies along with restrictions. For example some grant you the right to use on only one computer, some multiple. Whether you follow your EULA or not is up to you. But let's not imply moral decisions are the same as legal.

* End User Licensing Agreement
 
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What does "download games" mean? as in you can import files to the app or the emulator can sell games in the emulator with app store or what?
 
Wouldn't it be impossible / illegal to use a computer to enjoy copyrighted material then? The way computers work is by making copies. Stream the copy from the source on the server, load the copy into memory, send a copy to the GPU for decode, etc etc.
No because you paid for the right to use it on a computer.
 
Wouldn't it be impossible / illegal to use a computer to enjoy copyrighted material then? The way computers work is by making copies. Stream the copy from the source on the server, load the copy into memory, send a copy to the GPU for decode, etc etc.
You're leasing software from the company when you pay buy it. You do not own the software, just the right to use the software and the media it's stored on. There's something called the EULA that people ignore when installing programs.

If someone actually reads the EULA, they find out we're all a criminals.😏
 
You're taking me too seriously. I'm poking fun at the logical conclusion of his "copying is illegal, full stop" remark. Obviously the law is more complicated than that, as his next post then admits rather condescendingly.

Condescendingly? lol. copyright law isn’t complicated actually. If you got that from me, I’m sorry I was trying to be polite. If that’s condescending then stop saying incorrect things. Shrugs. I’m not being the moral police here or judging, but on matter of facts I will stand my ground. And don’t misrepresent me, I said violating copyright is breaking the law. How is that wrong?

I could care less what people’s moral decisions are as it relates to this topic in the same way I don’t judge people for speeding (within reason), but I’m not stupid enough to tell a cop that pulls me over that the speed limit is a stupid law so he can’t ticket me. If breaking copyright laws cause you to try to fool yourself and others, maybe you shouldn’t do it. But if you do, at least be honest enough to say, ‘so what?’

Your arguments are specious. 🤷‍♂️
 
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The only reason any of this is an issue in the first place is due to Apple deciding to limit software distribution
I think the ONLY reason any of this is an issue in the first place is people purchasing Apple products without really having a full understanding of what that means because they didn’t research their product before buying it. I prefer to buy products that do what I want than to buy products that don’t do what I want.
 
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But yeah… leveraging intellectual property in anticompetitive ways when having a dominant position as a software/online intermediary is not welcomed.
What’s the definition of dominant here, most important, powerful or influential? Because, in Europe, Apple is neither most important, most powerful, OR most influential.
 
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People like getting free games. People don't like the moral guilt that comes with stealing them. People solve this conflict by convincing themselves it's not stealing, then commence stealing and playing them so many times that the neural dopamine networks in their brains gets hooked on it... rinse and repeat.

ROMS that are not distributed by their owners are stolen property, apps like these are nothing more than tools to play stolen property, and anyone who uses them are thieves... period.
And, for anyone not wanting to think themselves a thief, don’t worry, other thieves have created content showing how their thievery ISN’T thievery! It would be far more logical to just deal with the moral guilt or, heck, just not be bothered by the moral guilt.
 
Condescendingly? lol. copyright law isn’t complicated actually. If you got that from me, I’m sorry I was trying to be polite. If that’s condescending then stop saying incorrect things. Shrugs. I’m not being the moral police here or judging, but on matter of facts I will stand my ground. And don’t misrepresent me, I said violating copyright is breaking the law. How is that wrong?

I could care less what people’s moral decisions are as it relates to this topic in the same way I don’t judge people for speeding (within reason), but I’m not stupid enough to tell a cop that pulls me over that the speed limit is a stupid law so he can’t ticket me. If breaking copyright laws cause you to try to fool yourself and others, maybe you shouldn’t do it. But if you do, at least be honest enough to say, ‘so what?’

Your arguments are specious. 🤷‍♂️
“Hey, I only speed for my PERSONAL USE, officer. Every time I speed, it’s only in a car that I own or rent! You should be going after those companies with thousands of fleet vehicles that are speeding!”
 
oh...the irony. Look, play all the word games you want Vic, but reproducing (copying) a copyrighted material is against the law. Period. Full Stop. And copyright violation (infringement) can be prosecuted by law.

"Willful copyright infringement can also result in criminal penalties, including imprisonment of up to five years and fines of up to $250,000 per offense. For more information, please see the Web site of the U.S. Copyright Office at www.copyright.gov, especially their FAQ's at www.copyright.gov/help/faq."

So here is the irony, the fact you referenced a non-profit organization whose mission it was to call into question the law, but has since closed its doors, does not give your argument any legal credibility. They knew the law. They FOLLOWED the law. Perhaps you recognize the carton character they were copying? Walt Disney's first breakout character (before mickey), Oswald the Lucky Rabbit, created in 1923 while Walt was working with Universal Studios, and as such was owned by Universal (that pesky copyright). So Walt, instead of violating the law by copying his own creation, renegotiated his contract with Universal, and created a NEW character, Mickey Mouse, where he had the copyrights, and the rest is history. So why didn't Question Copyright use Disney's creation Mickey Mouse in their propaganda? Because it was still under copyright, but Oswald has since gone out of copyright. BTW, Disney Corp bought the rights back to Oswald in 2006 perhaps out of loyalty to Walt. But wait, more irony, Walt first called Mickey, 'Mortimer.' Point is, you reference a radical group that obeyed the same law they were protesting. yes, protesting. Does not change the law.

So you share their opinion that the copyright law is stupid, fine, it's still the law. So you either break the law, steal, or you change the law first.

Thanks for the chuckle and the chance to visit nostalgia.
Thanks for saving me from having to actually watch that video :D
 
Thanks for saving me from having to actually watch that video :D
Actually it was hilarious, in a 'are they serious kind' of way. It's cutesy, designed for a five year old mentality, and is a great parody of China's view on IP. But yeah, to hold it up as a serious comment on copyright is .. mind boggling.
 
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leveraging intellectual property in anticompetitive ways when having a dominant position as a software/online intermediary is not welcomed.
(bold is mine)

I am sure there is some legal distinction you are making, but at first glance one does have to acknowledge that intellectual property is DESIGNED to protect against competition. So yeah. Are you saying penalize someone after they have become successful? Then IP is rubbish?
 
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“Hey, I only speed for my PERSONAL USE, officer. Every time I speed, it’s only in a car that I own or rent! You should be going after those companies with thousands of fleet vehicles that are speeding!”
I tried using the excuse "everyone else was speeding" with a cop before.

Cop: Uh-huh. Have you ever gone fishing, sir?
Me: Well yes, Officer.
Cop: Did you catch every fish?
Me realizing he's got a point. *sad trombone sound*
 
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What’s the definition of dominant here, most important, powerful or influential? Because, in Europe, Apple is neither most important, most powerful, OR most influential.
Just as an example: commanding (an estimated) more than half of the market for mobile app spending, they're arguably the most powerful gatekeeper for mobile apps in Europe.

at first glance one does have to acknowledge that intellectual property is DESIGNED to protect against competition.
Within the limits of a relevant market and the interests of society and the overall economy.

As an example, can Samsung or a random Chinese manufacturer slap the logo of a half-bitten Apple on their phone and clone the look and name of iOS to import phones and sell them as "Aple iPhones" in Europe? Of course not (legally). Cause the European Union respect Apple's IP rights and will enforce them at the border or place of import.

iOS is Apple's intellectual property. And they can surely protect that design against the competition. And boy can they monetise it in selling that operating system or hardware bundled with that operating systems!

Whereas leveraging their IP and the power they hold through their app signing certificates to impose a 30% (quasi-) tax on Spotify, their biggest competitor in music streaming - or otherwise prohibit them from communicating with their customers and offering them subscriptions at their preferred point of interaction (the mobile app)?

Not appreciated. Please abide by EU rules or leave - thank you very much.

Is that a restriction on Apple's property rights imposed by European law? Of course.
Does that mean that (quote) "Europe doesn't care about intellectual property rights"? Nonsense.

They do care about intellectual property rights - and they restrict them only where appropriate. Or beneficial to the European market. (Although your personal opinion about what's "appropriate" may differ, of course)
 
even bankrupt companies sell off assets when being closed down.
Someone, somewhere, owns the IP of the ROMs.

Now if these people could come forward and make them legally available for a small fee, I'm sure many would be willing to pay up and play legally.
Looks like they got acquired by Softkey who got acquired by Mattel Interactive who got acquired by Ubisoft.

I’ll let you know if anyone at Ubisoft gives a crap about my DOS copy of Spellbound! 😆
 
Within the limits of a relevant market and the interests of society and the overall economy.
First off, thank you for a well said line of discussion on a sensitive topic. Me personally, I am going to agree to disagree only because what you describe is so subjective. I prefer laws that are clear, and that is the playing field Apple thought it was playing on.
Not appreciated. Please abide by EU rules or leave - thank you very much.
Well that is what we are discussing isn't it? Why isn't Apple implementing a new feature in the UK. I believe they will in the future, but only after they have sorted through all the subjective barriers put up.
Is that a restriction on Apple's property rights imposed by European law? Of course.
Does that mean that (quote) "Europe doesn't care about intellectual property rights"? Nonsense.
Europe cares, until it doesn't. By your own admission Europe walked over Apple's IP rights. You/Europe justify it for the 'common good,' but the fact remains that's what happened. Though I do agree, it's hyperbole to say they dont care about any IP rights. I dont think I said that. Heck, I have been in Munhen several times to defend my own patents (successfully) so I know they care... until they don't.
They do care about intellectual property rights - and they restrict them only where appropriate. Or beneficial to the European market. (Although your personal opinion about what's "appropriate" may differ, of course)
And that is where the rub is, it's all subjective. Who decides what is for the common good and when it is appropriate to change the rules to fit political aspirations? I just don't like the whole big brother feel of it all.


Anyway, thank you for indulging me in this side discussion. Perhaps my stance is a tad energetic because the same people that claim victory when EU takes away from Apple are the same people complaining when Apple doesn't bring something to the EU right away. Hello?

I sincerely hope Apple becomes comfortable bringing this technology to Europe. In the end, we are all citizens of the Earth and we will eventually all rise or sink together. Admittedly we aren't there yet. And there is the real pity. And now I am going to bow out of this discussion. Thanks for the reply.
 
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US and UK Copyright law DOES ALLOW COPYING in very specific situations. In 2014 the copying of personally owned CD’s via analog methods to other non-shared media was specifically allowed. If you own a CD and the car didn’t have a CD player you could make a copy onto cassette to play in the car and you were not required to purchase a separate copy on cassette.

The keys here are *analog* and non-shared. If you later sold the CD you were required to destroy any copies. Making analog copies (VHS tape or other) of over the air broadcasts *is* completely legal. Digitizing your analog copies is legal. Making a digital backup of digital media was also made legal in 2014.

Breaking encryption (DVD, BR, HDMI, and others) to obtain your copy *is* illegal. Software End User License agreements and , terms of service, also *do* make copying illegal. You can not rip a DVD, but you can copy the analog component outputs from the dvd player of that DVD. You can not copy anything on Netflix digitally or through analog outputs as Netflix’s terms of service state this is not allowed.

While a grey area, copies obtained without breaking any encryption (defeating copy protection), from media physically owned by the individual, where there is no EULA restricting copying, where the copying is done directly by the individual (not obtained via torrents, internet, etc) does appear to be LEGAL.

Copyright holders have been afraid to challenge this in fear of establishing a precedent. Copying of CD’s and making VHS copies of OTA broadcasts did not get decided in favor of the Copyright holders and they are gunshy of pushing this issue. "Placeshifting" (Slingbox-now obsolete) was considered to be challenged in court (by MLB) but it was decided to not risk establishing another legal precedent because of the chance of again ruling against the Copyright holders.

If I own a coin operated arcade and I purchase all the equipment to read the Roms and I learn the steps and obtain a copy, and then use this copy on an emulator, then this appears legal. No EULA, no encryption defeated, no sharing of copies, no obtaining Roms from someone else.

It seems to me that playing games where you own the physical media (cartridge, cabinet, unencrypted DVD) on emulators is legal as long as there was no click through agreement when you first played the game and you do the copying of the physical media yourself.
 
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I hate windows with a passion, but if I could run windows 11 or Linux on the iPad Pro with no major compromises in performance etc, I’d buy one because it’d actually make the iPad useful….the irony

Maybe just buy a Surface Pro then? Then you (can install)/have Windows 11 or Linux, and complain about the UI being nearly unusable on a small touch screen.
 
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Didn't we just have this lesson a few weeks ago? <sigh> Here it is again:

COPYING IS NOT THEFT.


BY DEFINITION, copying CANNOT be stealing. The only way you can actually steal software is by taking the physical media it's on. I can steal a ROM by popping it out of a machine, I can steal a copy of a ROM by stealing your iPad. I CANNOT steal a ROM by making a copy of it.

Anyone who uses COPIED software is NOT a thief.
Do you see games/software/media as art?

If an artist made a painting, and sold prints of it, and then someone came along and made a copy of their print and started distributing it for free, is that morally okay?

What about the people who bought legitimate prints, thinking they would hold some sort of value because there are only a limited supply in the market. Now the market is flooded with free prints, and the legitimate ones are worthless. Is that fair to those who bought it?

Or say an author, if someone breaks the DRM of one of their ebooks and it gets distributed for free online, is that morally okay?

Is causing the loss of someone’s income not a type of theft? Even if they’re not losing something physical, they’re still being hurt by it…

Should people just start copying money? I mean, then everybody gets more money, nothing bad can come about from that… it’s just copying…
 
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Why not?
You want Windows on a tablet device... there are legally, already installed options available designed as best they can to perform what you want with a touch interface not some workaround...
Because the hardware sucks. And I still want iPad os, I just want to be able to do stuff it can’t currently do with windows
 
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Because the hardware sucks. And I still want iPad os, I just want to be able to do stuff it can’t currently do with windows
this makes no sense sorry.

you know what each device can do before you buy them.
to expect Apple to change things to suit your perceived needs beggars belief.

details on what you want iPadOS to do that it isnt?
 
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