Apple Updates Entire MacBook and MacBook Pro Lineup With Kaby Lake CPUs and Faster Graphics

[jmichelt]

I am really upset with the refresh, I just bought mine last month

You should give them a call. I bought mine on 5/11. I spoke with Apple last night and they are allowing me a return (by 6/19) outside of the normal return window so I can get the new one. It would be nice to be able to make an exchange in store but I think it is great they are letting me return it so I can get the update.

 

[UltimaKilo]

How is the 2016 version a joke if Kaby Lake is only a marginal upgrade designed to increase battery life by a little? Besides Kaby Lake, the only minor upgrades are the dedicated GPU (which still uses the same chip) and slightly faster SSD (which the Macbook Pros, even the 2015 ones, were already pretty fast to begin with).

Well first of all, it was released at the end of the mobile Skylake product cycle. Kaby Lake is actually has a lot of big improvements for some of us. The SSD being much faster and the iGPU and dGPU bumps are only icing. Click to read about Kaby Lake below. https://www.google.com/amp/www.pcwo...p-is-a-must-have-for-4k-video-fiends.amp.html

 

[Giganova]

Can someone educate me whether the MacBook or the MacBook Air would perform faster? I need a laptop for photo editing, but I am unfamiliar with the different types of processors (m4, i5, i7?).

Thanks!

 

[AlexCipriani]

I guess I'm not furious, just disappointed. The timing between the 2016 release and this new update just feels too close, especially since I bought my MBP in January.

Totally agreed!
I own a one month old MBP that was taken out of the box and activated exactly two weeks ago. Apple knew that they would give MBP a refresh with the Kaby Lake CPU and it would had been moral to make that clear to the public. Instead Apple for the reason of not loosing any sells on the new MBP decided to stay quiet like this is not even an issue. Remember this is not an usual upgrade cycle for MBP and I am sure that some buyers would have had waited for the new release if they knew their machine would become "previous model" a few months after purchase. As a result of this the value of your machine would go down at least a couple hundred dollars if you decide to sell; if you look at your MBP as an asset, and why not, you have incurred a loss. The bottom line is that this was a profitable strategic move for Apple @ the cost of its early adopters and I think they should do something about it.

 

[Crashing Bore]

560 RX would be comparable to Nvidia 1050. 560RX is a levelentry GPU. The RX560 is a $99US retail for the desktop card...

If the Apple variant is anything like the 460Pro vs 460RX, the 560Pro would be slower than the regular RX version due to thermal considerations - http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-RX-460-vs-Radeon-Pro-460.

Here's a benchmark and overview of the RX560.
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2940/radeon-rx-560

The 570RX is comparable to the Nvidia 1060... ( looking at benchmarks, 1060 is still faster ).

From Apple's website:

• Radeon Pro 560 with 4GB of GDDR5 memory and automatic graphics switching
• Intel HD Graphics 630

The 2016 MBP's had:

• AMD Radeon Pro 460 with 4 GB GDDR5 VRAM
• Intel HD Graphics 530

the HD 630 is 12% faster than last year's HD 530

 

[ND40oz]

Totally agreed!
I own a one month old MBP that was taken out of the box and activated exactly two weeks ago. Apple knew that they would give MBP a refresh with the Kaby Lake CPU and it would had been moral to make that clear to the public. Instead Apple for the reason of not loosing any sells on the new MBP decided to stay quiet like this is not even an issue. Remember this is not an usual upgrade cycle for MBP and I am sure that some buyers would have had waited for the new release if they knew their machine would become "previous model" a few months after purchase. As a result of this the value of your machine would go down at least a couple hundred dollars if you decide to sell; if you look at your MBP as an asset, and why not, you have incurred a loss. The bottom line is that this was a profitable strategic move for Apple @ the cost of its early adopters and I think they should do something about it.

It's been rumored as far back as December that they were getting updated relatively quickly because the 2016 models were rushed in time for the holiday season.

https://9to5mac.com/2016/12/20/mark...-macbook-minor-imac-notebook-updates-planned/

Then in April, there were more leaks pointing to updates either at WWDC or later this summer.

https://9to5mac.com/2017/04/17/apple-wwdc-updates-ipad-pro-imac-macbook-apple-tv-original-content/

And then in the middle of May the reports were that they were being announced at WWDC.

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/05/16/new-macbooks-coming-at-wwdc/

Apple isn't going to announce an unreleased product just to keep the public informed but the rest of the media channels had no issues keeping the public as up to date as possible on the release schedule.

 

[Stella]

From Apple's website:

• Radeon Pro 560 with 4GB of GDDR5 memory and automatic graphics switching
• Intel HD Graphics 630

The 2016 MBP's had:

• AMD Radeon Pro 460 with 4 GB GDDR5 VRAM
• Intel HD Graphics 530

the HD 630 is 12% faster than last year's HD 530

The HD speed bump isn't surprisingly - since Kabylake introduced better iGPU. I'm surprised of only 12% - was expecting a faster performance bump of the iGPU.

On paper, there doesn't seem to be much different between the 460 and 560 Pro...

 

[kyykesko]

TBH though, I'd rather have an update than no update. It does suck for early adopters, but at least it won't suck for *everyone*

How does it not suck for everyone? It still has the crappy keyboard and the miniature battery. The new hardware adds maybe 5 minutes of extra battery life if you actually use the computer. Maybe not even that much.
[doublepost=1496760829][/doublepost]

Apple likes nice round numbers, and they also probably won't admit that 10hrs for the 2016 MBPs was a little over-optimistic.

Basically I think we'll have to wait for user reviews to see if there is any improvement in battery life. If the size of the battery is changed that will also be a decent indication of a change in battery life.

A little? A LITTLE? I don't care if the machine can idle on standby for 10 hours if it drains the battery like crazy as soon as you do anything that actually uses power - which is, let's face it, any *real* work. "Let me edit these two photos for you.... Oops, can't do, ran out of power halfway through".

 

[Val-kyrie]

The chips are available so they put them in. There was no reason to skip the 2016 MBP and purchase this one.

The Iris 540/550/640/650 all have the same shaders.
Their only differentiating factors are 10% differences in clock speed and thew new HEVC-support for Kaby Lake.
Performance wise there won't be any difference bigger than the difference in GPU clock speed.

The reason to have waited for or to upgrade to this update was and is for the HEVC-support in Kaby Lake. This translates into much longer battery life, especially when decoding.

LOL
What were you expecting?
Apple is already late with Kaby Lake and honestly this update was very minor.
A price cut would have been a kick in the balls of any 2016 MBP owner, but they didn't cut the price.

13" nTB got a few MHz RAM speed and Kaby Lake + useless 128 GB version + price INCREASE of 256 GB version
13" TB got Kaby Lake.
15" got Kaby Lake + Polaris refresh (not a real difference in performance) + one step up in GPU tier which means about 15%
[doublepost=1496715143][/doublepost]

I'm not sure.

Intel has been doing some weird renaming and delaying with their CPU roadmap and is throwing around refreshs.
Current word is that there will be a Kaby Lake refresh called Coffee Lake with 6 cores 45 W CPUs and 4 Cores 15/18 W CPUs, so this one wouldn't support LPDDR4 because it's still using the same architecture.

If things go good LPDDR4 support is coming mid 2018 -> might be ready for 2018 MBP.
If things go bad LPDDR4 support is coming late 2018 / early 2019 -> might be ready for 2019 MBP.

I believe this is correct — Coffee Lake is just an optimization of the same 14nm process again with the same RAM support. What everyone is waiting for is Cannonlake which is the 10nm process and will support LPDDR4 and >16GB. I won't speculate on Intel's roadmap timelines for this as we all know they can't be predicted.

Unfortunately, some sites are reporting that the hexa-core Coffee Lake CPU is NOT multi-threaded. We had better hope AMD's Ryzen APU offers comparable performance to Intel's Kaby Lake or it may be two years before Apple offers more than a quad-core CPU.

I am disappointed.

I think that the Touch Bar is a gimmick.
I have no use for it, and I don't want a laptop without the keys on the top.
Especially without a physical ESC key.

Clients are still using USB Sticks to share data.
I regularly get photos on an SD card.
I don't want to buy a $2000 laptop and then have to carry around extra dongles.

Why not create a second line of MacBook Pros with same HW specs but without all the gimmick and a lower price?
They would sell like hotcakes.

And that is why it won't happen. To Apple, such a move would be tantamount to admitting they made a huge mistake. Apple simply lacks the 'courage' to do so.

All Apple would have had to do to pacify its fan base with the 2016 release would have been to take the 2015 MBP, upgrade its TB2 ports to TB3, and update it with the screen installed on the 2016 MBP.

 

[Squonk]

How much do we have to wait till we see the refurb models?

It's right around 8 weeks from what I recall. Sometimes as soon as 6 weeks for laptops. It seems like iPads are a bit longer. Cheers!

 

[raccoontail]

In terms of real-world usage, the SSD improvement may have the most noticeable impact. What I don't understand is why the 16GB max RAM wasn't increased. I have a 2013 MBP with 16GB. The new MBP's have better video capabilities in terms of driving multiple external 4k monitors, but if you don't need to do that, there's little benefit to upgrading.

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

I think the updates are nice.

 

[shastada]

In terms of real-world usage, the SSD improvement may have the most noticeable impact. What I don't understand is why the 16GB max RAM wasn't increased. I have a 2013 MBP with 16GB. The new MBP's have better video capabilities in terms of driving multiple external 4k monitors, but if you don't need to do that, there's little benefit to upgrading.

This has already been discussed at length in this (long) thread. 16GB is the max for LPDDR3 on these CPUs. Apple would have to switch to DDR4 to offer more than 16GB. DDR4 draws more power in idle/low power states than the LPDDR3 which is why Apple keeps trotting out LPDDR3.

 

[fat jez]

The HD speed bump isn't surprisingly - since Kabylake introduced better iGPU. I'm surprised of only 12% - was expecting a faster performance bump of the iGPU.

On paper, there doesn't seem to be much different between the 460 and 560 Pro...

There wouldn't be. For example, I have a factory overclocked RX480 (Sapphire Nitro+) in my PC. The stock RX580 is about the same speed. So I'd expect the 560 to be similar, I.e. A slightly faster version of the 460

 

[cookies!]

The Iris 540/550/640/650 all have the same shaders.
Their only differentiating factors are 10% differences in clock speed and thew new HEVC-support for Kaby Lake.
Performance wise there won't be any difference bigger than the difference in GPU clock speed.

I'm not a video professional, but how useful will the hardware support for HEVC be once properly supported by applications? I figured that might help video pros who are on tight budgets (I say "pros" broadly because so many videos are being produced by individuals)

 

[hybrid_x]

From the Apple website: "macOS High Sierra lets developers create interactive virtual reality experiences on Mac for the first time, using the new iMac with Retina 5K display, the new iMac Pro coming in late 2017, or any supported Mac paired with an external GPU."

My life is now complete. Buying a new Mac this Fall.

Yup. I'm wondering if a lot of people missed this, since it wasn't a product announcement. Hooking up to an external GPU via Thunderbolt was something I hoped was going to happen. When I saw Razor doing it on the Blade laptops, I thought it was pretty cool, and suspected Apple might follow this model.

Do we know exactly which Intel part numbers are in the new MBPs? I'm actually thinking about moving up to the 15" for the quad-core i7 and dGPU, since I'm doing more 3D work these days.

 

[jaredm1]

Phil Schiller supposedly said "To support 32GB of memory would require using DDR memory that is not low power and also require a different design of the logic board which might reduce space for batteries. Both factors would reduce battery life."

Well a third factor that reduces battery life is this: Apple's mindless obsession to cram their hardware into ever smaller packages which certainly does reduce space for batteries.

 

[IlluminatedSage]

Apple doesn't seem to be listening to any of the 2016 macbook pro buyer feedback. at all.

Only update of consequence? CPU and graphics chip.

What happened to 32 GB ram?
Why not adding back in an SD card slot?
Give a couple USB 3 ports and i would have been happy.

Instead... the glorious Apple design team is able to say... we like it how we designed it. take it or not.

Something tells me many mac users are left scratching their heads and looking at those fancy new PC laptops with envy.

 

[hybrid_x]

i5 to i7 has never been worth it on notebooks.
The only difference is a higher peak clock speed, during longer loads both will throttle down to the same level.

If you ask me, the machine to go with is i5 + 16 GB RAM + 512 GB storage.
nTB is 1899$
TB is 2199$

nTB has the edge on battery life and price, TB has a minor advantage in performance + Touch Bar + Touch ID + 2 additional ports.

So it all boils down to your preference. I've been using my 2016 base model non touch 13 inch MBP and haven't really noticed much difference with my maxed-out i7 discrete GPU 2015 15 inch MBP.

What about hyperthreading, given the same number of cores? I suppose that all boils down to whether the developer has coded the app to support it.

 

[raccoontail]

This has already been discussed at length in this (long) thread. 16GB is the max for LPDDR3 on these CPUs. Apple would have to switch to DDR4 to offer more than 16GB. DDR4 draws more power in idle/low power states than the LPDDR3 which is why Apple keeps trotting out LPDDR3.

I remember reading about the technical restrictions, but it's a poor overall design decision. The 2009 13" MBP weighs 4.7lbs. The 2016 weighs 3 lbs. Most pro users I know would be happy to carry a 4lb laptop with room for a bigger battery, 32GB of DDR4, more ports, and an SD slot. Apple already has the MB and Air lines for users who need something lighter...

 

[powerboy123]

"Can't innovate, my ass!"

These are such exciting new products! /s

innovation is features that have been around for years? that's exciting?... no 32mb still on MBP.. GET WITH IT APPLE!

 

[shastada]

I remember reading about the technical restrictions, but it's a poor overall design decision. The 2009 13" MBP weighs 4.7lbs. The 2016 weighs 3 lbs. Most pro users I know would be happy to carry a 4lb laptop with room for a bigger battery, 32GB of DDR4, more ports, and an SD slot. Apple already has the MB and Air lines for users who need something lighter...

I don't disagree that it's a poor decision. Apple's obsession of form over function has ruined a few products before just like the Mac Pro. They get to dictate and consumers can either buy or not buy. I choose to 'not buy' because I dislike the decisions they've made. Others are free to make whatever choice suits their needs.

It's funny because I've only switched to mac and OSX as a result of their excellent laptop designs in the last 5-10 years and now they've gone 'too far' and I'm reconsidering windows laptops.

 

[diamond.g]

The reason to have waited for or to upgrade to this update was and is for the HEVC-support in Kaby Lake. This translates into much longer battery life, especially when decoding.

From my understanding Skylake can do 8-bit HEVC decoding in hardware. Kaby Lake can do 10-bit decoding in hardware. So really we are waiting on High Sierra to bring the support to the OS to take advantage of it (using Apple apps) at all.

 

[slimothy]

Does anyone have any idea if/when Coffee/CannonLake processors will come out for MBP 15"?

 

[jaredm1]

Does anyone have any idea if/when Coffee/CannonLake processors will come out for MBP 15"?

Originally 2016, then pushed to end of 2017 - most realistically it'll be 2018 before it appears in an Apple laptop.