In 2006 Apple gave developers new Intel Macs in exchange for their DTKs. I also doubt that Apple will be switching platforms anytime soon.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Ups DTK Mac Mini Return Credit to $500 After Developer Complaints
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Nice cherry picking but it has nothing to do with getting anything free. I pointed out the Steve gave away free iMacs as a goodwill gesture. The goodwill gesture is what is the precedent here, not free stuff
That was for people who were enrolled in the $499/year dev program.
New platforms such as AR/VR glasses are coming up. Pretty sure there will be a dev kit.
giving away a free thing is the goodwill gesture. therefore it has something to do with "giving away free stuff" because without it, there wouldn't be a goodwill gesture from Steve Jobs in the context of developer kits. it's very simple.
anyways, sounds like we're talking in circles. no point in continuing this part of the thread. we're done.
Do you just keep spreading lies?
First you say Mac mini was never meant to be returned (not true). If you look at the website archive back in July 2020, it says "The DTK is owned by Apple and must be returned." https://web.archive.org/web/20200701220413/https://developer.apple.com/programs/universal/
Now you're saying they will never admit they are wrong:
And here I thought Apple fanboys blindly following Apple was riduclous...this is on another level.
You got caught in a lie, tried to backtrack and cherrypick to avoid making yourself look foolish
No, but the program terms also said developers would keep the DTK for a year. Heavily implied in that is that it would be supported by macOS.
Apple ending software support for the DTK early probably saves Apple more than the credit will cost them.
Nah, next time Apple do this they should just take the enhanced developer membership fee and a deposit for the hardware, refundable on return of the kit.
This was a good call on Apple's part, and after the bad-PR backlash I kind of expected them to backtrack.
What I can't figure out is why they didn't just lead with the generous version. They should have known that there would be backlash, it would immediately become public, and it would look small and penny-pinching. Whatever it was going to save them was an absolute pittance compared to the PR value of making devs happy on the first try instead of after they complain.
What I can't figure out is why they didn't just lead with the generous version. They should have known that there would be backlash, it would immediately become public, and it would look small and penny-pinching. Whatever it was going to save them was an absolute pittance compared to the PR value of making devs happy on the first try instead of after they complain.
Two things about this.
Apple needs to set a price for the access to the dtk so that only devs taking it seriously would ask for the kit. The price is not to cover the expense of the machines, that apple could consider a (very small) part of the investment to switch silicon.
With that aside, apple has turned into a nickel and dime company, plain and simple. They need developers more than developers need apple, and that move of giving 200$ credit is classical “let’s see how much crap are they willing to put up with”. Sadly for apple, developers are smarter and more likely to speak up than their average customer.
That they had to backtrack on a matter as simple as this speaks volumes about how deep inside apple’s dna is the impulse to take as much as they possibly can regardless of the consecuences. The difference in their numbers is beyond negligible, the impact on their relations with developers is not.
Apple needs to set a price for the access to the dtk so that only devs taking it seriously would ask for the kit. The price is not to cover the expense of the machines, that apple could consider a (very small) part of the investment to switch silicon.
With that aside, apple has turned into a nickel and dime company, plain and simple. They need developers more than developers need apple, and that move of giving 200$ credit is classical “let’s see how much crap are they willing to put up with”. Sadly for apple, developers are smarter and more likely to speak up than their average customer.
That they had to backtrack on a matter as simple as this speaks volumes about how deep inside apple’s dna is the impulse to take as much as they possibly can regardless of the consecuences. The difference in their numbers is beyond negligible, the impact on their relations with developers is not.
Apple rented the mac mini for developers so they can build apps for their upcoming all new processor?
thats the dumbest thing I heard. If the developer is willing to pay then sell it for them at cost, you lose nothing and get a lot of support for apps on your new hardware.
Indeed... you see the extreme Apple religion in many of these comments... like any cult they leaders and religion must be infallible... and when they switch the orthodoxy then the new mantra is the true one... yesterday's rule never existed.
I've been a loyal Apple dev since 1977... and I love their products... but they screw up all the time... on platforms, APIs, tools, ID, manufacturing, policies, etc... across the board...
It's a two way street with partners/customers/developers/etc... for any long term you have to treat them right...
It's why a bar throws you a free drink once in a while... or if the restaurant service is slow/bad they'll throw you a desert... etc... there's no law or rule saying you have to do that, but it makes good business sense for loyalty.
Those Apple cultists talking about "whining" or "entitled" developers clearly shouldn't be involved in any way with a business that relies on partners/customers for success.
I cringed when I saw this, it’s the developers who will make or break m1.
it stands to be a paradigm shift in cpu design, yet with no 3rd party development will not go very far, no matter how great it is.....
about intel‘s only hope at this point.
Apple take care of these developers!
this is just common sense, note, I do not need to use terms like cult, or lash out at anyone......if you do, and feel the need too, you have lost any message you tried to convey......
it stands to be a paradigm shift in cpu design, yet with no 3rd party development will not go very far, no matter how great it is.....
about intel‘s only hope at this point.
Apple take care of these developers!
this is just common sense, note, I do not need to use terms like cult, or lash out at anyone......if you do, and feel the need too, you have lost any message you tried to convey......
No, developers paid a $500 fee to join a “quick start” program that included various tech support services as well as “limited access to a DTK” that had to be returned after 12 months or earlier on request by Apple. That was made crystal clear by the agreement (which has been linked several times in this thread).
The DTK was a temporary kludge with an A12Z processor that’s was always going to be pointless as soon as the real M1 Macs became available. Anybody using it for development after November is wasting their own time. It was probably relatively expensive to make, too - without the economies of scale that come with a Mac that sells by the million over a couple of years, and supporting it with Mac OS updates once the M1s were out would also cost money.
I doubt that Apple gives a wet slap about the insignificant income from this program (it probably still didn’t cover its costs): for things like this the fee is primarily a deterrent to stop everybody and their dog signing up to get a DTK to play with.
Likewise, if they started offering “at cost” Macs on their (ludicrously cheap) $99/year developer program, they’d be swamped when everybody who’d ever wrote a ”Hello World” program signed up (it would be daft not to...) - that’s the “tragedy of the commons“, especially when you’re the size of Apple.
Apple isn’t a charity, and neither are most of their developers. You don’t have to be Microsoft to make the chance of being “M1 native” a few weeks before your competition worth a $500 punt.
I’d be surprised if Microsoft does an arm transition kit.
They’re not a big player in hardware. Plenty of other vendors.
Most importantly, Microsoft already has arm support.
Have you seen how windows arm has taken over the world??? Did you even realize there is windows for arm? No?
It’s exactly because Microsoft has not been effective at getting developers to port to it.
Performance is dismal, emulation poor, and very very few native running apps.
End result has been a total fail for Microsoft.
Apple sounded like they were serious and making a good effort until this DTK return fiasco. They should have announced the rebate when M1s were first released. By now any dev that wanted an M1 has one or is waiting for a newer machine that may still not show up this year.
Good that they decided to increase it to $500. It would have been better if they would have done this from the beginning though
Apple made it clear that you were renting the DTK, not buying it.
Now you want to keep something you didn’t buy, and you call Apple greedy?
Sorry. Apple doesn’t owe you a free pony.
I get called being a fanboy when I defend Apple’s actions.
Then I get called a hater when I bash Apple.
Maybe...just maybe...(this will your blow your mind)....I have my own opinions on these subjects. I defend the actions of any company whether they're a $1mil company or a $2tril company as long as what they're doing is right. And I bash the very same companies that I believe are making the wrong moves. I know this is a shocking concept for you, but this is what should be assumed instead of relegating me to a group that you dislike.
Don't forget the RMBPs. Slim is nice, but it reeks of the same desperation as overpriced ink cartridges. With the money they're making, they shouldn't have so much pressure on them to maximize Mac sales, especially considering that they never did that before 2012 and managed just fine*. The hardware is actually one of the big reasons why I made the switch to Linux a few years ago. Though, I still keep my MacBook around for the very rare times when I actually need it, like when I need to change the buttons on my Harmony remote. Also, the ultra-slim form-factor really puts hamstrings CPUs and GPUs.
* My MacBook Pro is 9 years old and it still mostly works fine because I was able to upgrade it. If I couldn't upgrade it, I'd have needed a new MacBook after the upgrade to Mountain Lion. And that's to say nothing of the overpriced proprietary SSDs.
Good. Keep defending a company's scummy practice 👌.
Obviously blind fanboys can't be reasoned with even when the company provided an unusable DTK.