Apple 'Vehemently Disagrees' With U.S. Tech Company Antitrust Report

[ani4ani]

Thank you! I've been saying the same thing about my classic Nintendo Game Boy. I bought it on ebay with my own hard earned $30 and now Nintendo refuses to let me run anything other than Nintendo sanctioned cartridges. Come on Nintendo! What's with this monopolistic authoritarianism. And before you say it I don't own a PS2 and I don't want to; I had no idea I couldn't play Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4.

BREAK UP NINTENDO!! FORCE THEM TO ALLOW CARTRIDGE TO SPINNING OPTICAL DISC ADAPTERS!!

That is a rather silly straw man (and very tired) argument. You can buy them cartridges from literally 1,000’s of places for a fraction of their original cost. You could buy new ones at the time in games shops, supermarket, online etc at competing prices...In the Apple world that’s not possible.

Your analogy is akin to not being able to plug a USB C cable into a lightening port, which is fair enough. Having a proprietary system is another matter all together

 

[DeepIn2U]

Of course Apple doesn't agree. they want to force up to 30% of all dollars spent via their devices to them.

I remember the good old days of just buying software/services anywhere you were able to and install it. I want that back!

what the good old days of mobile software and the blatant pirating and forums sites that helped it progress unchecked alone with just about every game development company loosing tens of millions and only a few surviving?!

Nokia S60 platform had many game developers suffer when their N-Gage and N-Gage QD games were pirated and leaked for free on sites like Symbian-Freak (gone now but you can still Google lots of threads) and able to play on so many other S60 phones - 6600/6620/N85/N82/N95, Samsung INNov8 and many others along with an MMC/SD card.

and that is just 1 platform and it occurred on Microsoft’s POCKET PC-PE and Smartphone edition platforms as well.

You really want THAT to come back?! If you agree I highly doubt you really enjoyed nor practiced “paying” for software.

 

[Abazigal]

Is anyone expecting anything to come out of this though?

 

[hot-gril]

I don't care what Apple thinks, but I vehemently disagree too. Politicians are out of their element when they talk about technology.

 

[hot-gril]

Someone needs to look up the definition of monopoly. Apple has plenty of competition. The others, not so much.

They all have competition.
iOS <-> Android and forks
Amazon retail <-> eBay, Walmart, and small stores
AWS <-> Azure, GCP
Mac <-> Windows, Linux?
Facebook <-> Twitter, Snapchat, Reddit
Google search <-> Bing, DuckDuckGo
Google ads <-> Facebook ads, others
GSuite <-> Office 365, Salesforce offerings
Google Meet <-> MS Teams, vastly superior Zoom

As a consumer, I've never been unhappy about my tech choices. There are so many. It's not like buying a textbook in school and cursing the company's monopoly.

 

[Neodym]

Of course Apple doesn't agree. they want to force up to 30% of all dollars spent via their devices to them.

I remember the good old days of just buying software/services anywhere you were able to and install it. I want that back!

Whether you want that for your Smartphone or your Tablet: It’s still available out there. Just go ahead and buy an Android device. Just beware that in the official Play store it’s also 30% that go to the store owner. Can’t have your (Apple) cake and eat it ...

 

[bollman]

Most analogies here are totally moot points.

The smartphone is an essential utility, just like an internet connection. It started out like a "cool thing" you could live without but today, it is at least over here in Sweden something you hardly can live without to be able to get through your daily life. You pay your bills using it, do your banking, interact with government, pay your commuter tickets. In many cases, it's the smartphone way or no way at all, much to the dread of the elderly. Here, very few banks handle cash (the closest bank to me that handles cash is at least 30 miles away) and merchants are also starting to deny cash.
So, comparing the smartphone to a games console is not fair. You don't need an XBox to pay your bills or pay your commute.
Apple created this revolution and they deserve credit for it, but now it's too important to daily life to be decided over by 2 huge companies (Apple and Google).

Apple's great success has also meant that they have hit a capitalist glass ceiling. It's getting more and more difficult to expand the phone business which inevitably means sales will level off. This requires Apple to start expanding into more and more areas to keep growing to be able to satisfy investors. Keep that up and eventually, everything will be an Apple-thing.

Apple has some great spin doctors and marketing people. They have totally mastered the narrative of Apple being like a good friend who cares about you. Change nothing product wise, but imagine product releases with boring executives in suits and a general snarkiness towards consumers, a focus on B2B where dudes in suits only are interested in other dudes in suits. Do you think Apple would be just as successful? Would there be hordes of people on sites like MacRumors prepared to defend Apple's every move to the bitter end?

 

[smulji]

Someone needs to look up the definition of monopoly. Apple has plenty of competition. The others, not so much.

The US doesn't have to prove market share dominance to show that Apple has monopoly power. All it has to do is show that Apple abused its influence and market power


Monopoly Power

The ability of one company to control prices or exclude competition in a particular market. It is a requirement for the offense of monopolization, which is prohibited under Section 2 of the Sherman Act. Courts may evaluate the following factors to determine whether a company has monopoly power:

• Ease with which a competitor may enter the market.
• Market share in the relevant market.
• Size and strength of competing companies.
• Pricing trends and practices in the industry.
• Ability of consumers to switch to comparable goods.
• Strength of demand.
  

https://ca.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/4-502-0835?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true

 

[silvetti]

That is a rather silly straw man (and very tired) argument. You can buy them cartridges from literally 1,000’s of places for a fraction of their original cost. You could buy new ones at the time in games shops, supermarket, online etc at competing prices...In the Apple world that’s not possible.

Your analogy is akin to not being able to plug a USB C cable into a lightening port, which is fair enough. Having a proprietary system is another matter all together

And you do know that Nintendo was paid its fee for every single one of them, right?
AND Nintendo was also paid to "build the actual cartridges" right?

Same with Sony.
Guess who has monopoly of actually making the physical copies for game studios?
And they get paid 30% for every game as well.
They double dip basically.

 

[justperry]

Someone needs to look up the definition of monopoly. Apple has plenty of competition. The others, not so much.

You fail to see they have a monopoly in the AppStore, there's only one AppStore, there's no competition to the AppStore, that is a monopoly.

The US doesn't have to prove market share dominance to show that Apple has monopoly power. All it has to do is show that Apple abused its influence and market power


Monopoly Power

The ability of one company to control prices or exclude competition in a particular market. It is a requirement for the offense of monopolization, which is prohibited under Section 2 of the Sherman Act. Courts may evaluate the following factors to determine whether a company has monopoly power:

• Ease with which a competitor may enter the market.
• Market share in the relevant market.
• Size and strength of competing companies.
• Pricing trends and practices in the industry.
• Ability of consumers to switch to comparable goods.
• Strength of demand.

https://ca.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/4-502-0835?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true

This

 

[ruka.snow]

I am all for breaking up these big companies. Or at least putting in some independent body to have the final say on some decisions. The AppStore for instance could have a independent governing body but still give all its profits to Apple and Developers, the independent body just decides that no your spyware app isn't welcome or yes you can host an adult role-play chat app.

And they targeted Facebook too, I would love to see Instagram returned to being an independent company, it is becoming important for photographers but there is no way I am using it while under Facebook. Forcing Facebook to split up should also help its demise as by rights it should have died by now but they have been buying up relevant products to stay afloat.

 

[TheWatchfulOne]

You fail to see they have a monopoly in the AppStore, there's only one AppStore, there's no competition in the AppStore, that is a monopoly.

The App Store contains millions of apps. All competing with each other. That is not a monopoly.

 

[7149041]

I remember the good old days of just buying software/services anywhere you were able to and install it. I want that back!

Buying an iPhone is a pretty stupid thing to do if that's your approach - it has always been walled in

 

[justperry]

The App Store contains millions of apps. All competing with each other. That is not a monopoly.

Some of those have to compete with Apple while Apple does not have to pay the 30%.. 🤔

Again, there's no competing AppStore.

And then some Apps pay the 30% while others don't.

 

[justperry]

There is one reason Apple is successful today and that's the hard work, insight, and brilliance of Steve. He spent billions of dollars and close to ten years developing the iPhone. Even AFTER he had finished his masterpiece, so-called tech leaders like Balmer thought it would fail, but Steve had the insight to stick through, and now Apple reaps the rewards. Nokia, Blackberry and others are on the ash heap, they could not build products anywhere close to those Steve built.

Apple is the most innovative company in America and for the US government to go after them is a disgrace. They have done more good for this country than any company in the history of the world.

Steve didn't want to have the AppStore, they had to change his mind.

 

[2979382]

Good. Politicians should stay out of tech. By definition most of them are incompetent greedy wastes of space anyway.

The solution that would actually work here, is of course one that politicians won't ever want to hear because it would highlight their ineptness and take money out of their fat pockets. The solution is not to point the finger at successful companies, but to create a business climate that enables newcomers in the industry to thrive. They point the finger at Amazon while buying most of their stuff on Amazon instead of the small, local-owned shops who struggles because of high rents, too much tax to pay, etc. They point the finger at Apple, yet most of them have at least a couple of Apple devices. They point the finger at Facebook, yet most of them are active users of Facebook and the direct result of a political climate created through Facebook. Hypocrites. The lot of them. There should be a way to downvote politicians and fire them democratically. At any level.

 

[ian87w]

The report lumps Apple, Google, Facebook, and Amazon together and says that the four corporations "share common problems" such as controlling access to markets, charging exorbitant fees, imposing oppressive contract terms, and using their dominant positions to maintain market power by shutting out rivals.

On Amazon, I agree with this ruling. They even are venturing into Brick and mortar stores. Their own algorithm has been shown to be anti competitive. It's obvious.

Facebook is also obvious. Facebook make deals with smartphone OEMs and carriers to get their apps pre installed and not using up quota, to the point that many people in emerging markets think that Facebook is the internet. It's obvious.

Google, I have mixed feelings. They're obviously showing anti competitive behaviors on their platforms such as search and YouTube, and are obvious major player. And on mobile, they force OEMs to pre install Google apps to be certified. But in the end its open source and can be forked.

Apple I don't see it. They're just following the same comisison model that are in practice by pretty much every businesses out there. And the 70-30 cut is considered to be the standard. The only thing Apple has fault is their incessant push for vertical integration (which is not illegal, btw).

Oh well, we'll see.

 

[macfacts]

The App Store contains millions of apps. All competing with each other. That is not a monopoly.

The monopoly isn't that apple has all the apps, it's that only apple can distribute iOS apps.

 

[ateslik]

.

 

[and 1989 others]

Oil Barons and Railroaders. Last time I checked the app store was created by apple, is hosted by apple and the use of such does not detract from anybody not using the app store.

 

[spazzcat]

What competition is there for selling iOS apps? Please guide me to all these other stores I can get my software for my iPhone cheaper? ....and before you say it, I don’t own an Android phone and I don’t want to; I spent my $1000 on an iPhone and I had no idea I couldn’t buy my software from anyone but Apple. (Note...this is an example to make a point not my personal predicament)

So you knew what you were buying into when you bought your iPhone, the software model has always been the same on the iPhone.

 

[ani4ani]

And you do know that Nintendo was paid its fee for every single one of them, right?
AND Nintendo was also paid to "build the actual cartridges" right?

Same with Sony.
Guess who has monopoly of actually making the physical copies for game studios?
And they get paid 30% for every game as well.
They double dip basically.

I don't understand your point...or you are confirming mine. So when Sony, Nintendo and others behave like you describe that is a monopoly? However, you reference these companies as doing the same as Apple does and therefore by implication, Apple acts as a monopoly?

 

[GuruZac]

Anti-trust hearings on Amazon would be a far more appropriate use of time. Apple... not so much. Look at how much of the economy Amazon now has its hands on. Any single company should not have that much control. If anything, bust Amazon up. I don’t see what Apple has done wrong here.

 

[ani4ani]

So you knew what you were buying into when you bought your iPhone, the software model has always been the same on the iPhone.

Does the general public really know all that? Does you ederly grandmother know that...your teenage daughter?

Here's a thing; when Apple, for arguments sake, next week announce all of their phones with a USB C port and no charger or earbuds in the box; everyone will just know that or just those who frequent a few rumour / tech sites?

 

[GuruZac]

What competition is there for selling iOS apps? Please guide me to all these other stores I can get my software for my iPhone cheaper? ....and before you say it, I don’t own an Android phone and I don’t want to; I spent my $1000 on an iPhone and I had no idea I couldn’t buy my software from anyone but Apple. (Note...this is an example to make a point not my personal predicament)

Did you not know that before you bought an iPhone? You are welcome to go to the Google Play store and use and Android device In the event you weren’t aware that when you bought an iPhone you’re locked in to iOS and the App Store. Many apps, actually most, that I use on my phone and iPads are free any way.