Apple Video Game Console?

[AppliedVisual]

How many of those "100" PC applications and games are actually worth using or playing???

You're obviously not a gamer... Gaming is a HUGE industry in the Windows world. We're talking billions in industry revenue on an annual basis for PC games, only a very small percentage of these games make it to the Mac.

I think game development for the Mac will pick up over the next few years since Apple's sales continue to climb and now that Apple has shifted to Intel CPUs and essentially uses the same common video cards, game developers won't have to optimize critical segments for another CPU platform. Sure, there is still the issue of DirectX being used on Windows systems, which is not available on the Mac... However, we're seeing a lot of games release for Linux these days and if Linux with OpenGL can be supported, a Mac port isn't a whole lot more work if the developer/publisher thinks there's enough people who will buy it.

IMO, this is a great time for developers to jump into Mac game development as there's a hungry consumer base and little competition.

 

[50548]

You're obviously not a gamer... Gaming is a HUGE industry in the Windows world. We're talking billions in industry revenue on an annual basis for PC games, only a very small percentage of these games make it to the Mac.

I think game development for the Mac will pick up over the next few years since Apple's sales continue to climb and now that Apple has shifted to Intel CPUs and essentially uses the same common video cards, game developers won't have to optimize critical segments for another CPU platform. Sure, there is still the issue of DirectX being used on Windows systems, which is not available on the Mac... However, we're seeing a lot of games release for Linux these days and if Linux with OpenGL can be supported, a Mac port isn't a whole lot more work if the developer/publisher thinks there's enough people who will buy it.

IMO, this is a great time for developers to jump into Mac game development as there's a hungry consumer base and little competition.

He didn't ask that, he asked how many of those "100" PC games are worth buying or playing...most are not, if I may say...

 

[Quboid]

If you guys thought the PS3 was expensive, let apple put out a game and see how much people would be able to climb the steep price it would carry.

 

[AppliedVisual]

He didn't ask that, he asked how many of those "100" PC games are worth buying or playing...most are not, if I may say...

OK, if you want to look at it that way... I do realize that is what he was saying, but he came across as someone unfamiliar with PC gaming.

I do agree that many (actually most) titles out there are not worth buying. But there are a great many that are. And, sadly, only a small percentage of them are ever ported to the Mac.

 

[gregorsamsa]

He didn't ask that, he asked how many of those "100" PC games are worth buying or playing...most are not, if I may say...

But a good number are worth buying; plus, just having that choice can mean a lot in determining what computer a gaming consumer on a budget ends up buying. One of the reasons PS2 sold as well as it did was backwards compatibility. It didn't matter that most people who bought PS2s would rarely play PS1 titles on a PS2. The fact that they could do counted for a lot in adding to the overall sales.

Many potential switchers into gaming won't touch a consumer-priced Mac simply because of integrated graphics. Sad, but very true.

 

[applekid]

I've got it

Apple partners with Nintendo to release a hard drive dock combo for the Wii. Hook it up via USB and you got a video game-playing media center iTV combo.

Apple wants to be in our living room, then they gotta break through Sony's PS3 and Microsoft's X-Box 360, both consoles that are very capable as media centers and very much competition for the iTV.

The way I see it is, all three consoles have USB, so this could really apply for any of the three game consoles. However, Nintendo's Wii is the only one to lack robust media capabilities. Give it a decent add-on, and it can compete with the other two consoles in the media center arena, too.

 

[OdduWon]

imagine if you had a mini with an iTv sitting on top in you livingroom. Then if you had a wirless connector that plugs into your (insert random gaming console here) you could play video games without having wires
if the iTv only plays media on your mac i don't think many people will want one. it need to be an apple solution to interfacing with a tv. otherwise it is just a fancy (lower possible resolution) dvd played. This needs to be a setup for using the mac like a mac on your tv. otherwise woop d doo


^^^ Wiitv lol

 

[0010101]

How many of those "100" PC applications and games are actually worth using or playing???

Well, off the top of my head, I can think of 5 applications that are available to PC only that prevent my wife from switching.

She loves my Mac.. and is constantly remarking how stable and flat out cool OSX is.. but she continues to use a PC, because the programs she uses only come in PC format.

I'll fully admit that there is a whole lot of PC software out there that is full on crap.. that the majority of that 'extra' software available for the PC isn't anything worth using.. at least not to most people.. but the truth is, it only takes one or two PC only programs to keep people on the PC.

Finally, the average end user isn't going to take your word for the fact that most of that software is garbage. When they're at the store, deciding to buy a $500 PC or a $1200 Mac, they're going to see an ocean of available software for the PC, and like 30 titles for the Mac.

It really isn't any different than buying a VCR in the 'old days'.. you're trying to decide between VHS and BETA, and the salesman is going on about how much better a format BETA is. Sure it's more expensive.. but it's BETTER!

You mention that there seems to be a lot more movies available for VHS, and the salesman says, "Yea, but most of those movies are crap!"

You know how many thousands of people play that 'Final Fantasy Online' game? My little brother (who is 24 years old) loves that game. He also covets my Mac.. and has said more than once, that if they made his game for Mac, he'd switch in a second.

 

[OdduWon]

Well, off the top of my head, I can think of 5 applications that are available to PC only that prevent my wife from switching.
(snip)
You know how many thousands of people play that 'Final Fantasy Online' game? My little brother (who is 24 years old) loves that game. He also covets my Mac.. and has said more than once, that if they made his game for Mac, he'd switch in a second.

which five???
my roomate plays ffonline and he wants a mac laptop, but to play his games he will have to get a MBP for the 256 gpu, he is ok with buying xp (since in two months it will be sold for cheap on amazon).
i think most young people who are considering switching to a mac don't because of the graphics cards in the lower end models (MB, Mac mini), not because of lack of programs, atleast this goes for those who know that Macs do windows, which 99 percent don't

 

[AppliedVisual]

which five???
my roomate plays ffonline and he wants a mac laptop, but to play his games he will have to get a MBP for the 256 gpu, he is ok with buying xp (since in two months it will be sold for cheap on amazon).
i think most young people who are considering switching to a mac don't because of the graphics cards in the lower end models (MB, Mac mini), not because of lack of programs, atleast this goes for those who know that Macs do windows, which 99 percent don't

Well, I can name far more than five major applications (not just games) that are not available for Mac... I have to run a mixed shop of Windows, Mac and Linux systems and I could easily eliminate all but one or two Windows systems if all the software I needed was available for OSX. I practically must have a dedicated Windows system for AtuoCAD alone. Then there's XSI (Windows/Linux only)... I'd go all Linux, but it's lacking way too many other software tools so it's even worse off. I admire Linux for what it is, but the open-source paradigm and current market approaches used by Linux developers will only take it so far. OTOH, Linux is still a much better gaming platform than the Mac. ...I'm lucky with my gaming though, I don't have much time for it these days so it's just a quick jaunt into the realms of WC3, WOW, CoD2 or Quake3/4. Luckily for me are all available for OSX... Too bad WC3 isn't universal binary though... It plays OK on my MBP, but the poor fans run full blast the whole time due to running a 3D graphics game via Rosetta. It really strains it, so I haven't really done it more than once or twice just to see if it would work.

Anyway back on topic... The Mac video memory sizes can be of real concern to some. 256MB is OK and I needed that for my 3D graphics software, not just games. A 512MB option on the MBP (even just on the 17" model) would be welcome. ...Although the x1600 isn't a real power user GPU anyway and that can also cause some hesitation. The 1" thin formfactor is cool and all, but some people would rather give that up for better cooling and a more powerful GPU... Even if they're sacrificing battery life as well.

All things considered, I would have given more thought to buying a Dell XPS or similar notebook if there was one out there with a dual-link DVI port. Dell, Hypersonic, etc.. don't offer such an animal, even with the 7960Go GPU and 512MB vRAM.

As for dual booting XP... I've found it to be a real problem for the MBP. There's just not enough drive space. I can't fit everything I need there and then a copy of XP with a couple applications, even on my 160GB drive... Just won't work. However, I'm eagerly awaiting the new VMWare Fusion release... It looks promising and will let me run most of my Windows software via a virtual machine and I can keep VM modules on external drives and/or even memory cards rather than the internal MBP drive.

 

[OdduWon]

Is there anything stopping apple from including software for the mac mini that will read playstations discs??? ???? if it could do this it would be the ultimate gaming box.

 

[AppliedVisual]

Is there anything stopping apple from including software for the mac mini that will read playstations discs??? ???? if it could do this it would be the ultimate gaming box.

Yeah, PlayStation licensing from Sony... The Mac Mini is powerful enough it could play PSX games just fine via emulation. PS2 games would be a stretch, though.. Highly unlikely given the poor video chipset in the mini combined with the need for emulation. IIRC, there was some software not too long ago that would allow for playing PSX games on the PC. The way it worked, it was a PSX emulator that included profiles for about 15 to 20 different games for each installment to the series, so you had to buy multiple editions of the product to obtain the properly licensed profiles for all the games you wanted to play. Not terribly efficeint and I don't think it worked all that well either.

 

[mackiwi]

The wii's virtual console might give us a little hint...

I dont have my Wii online yet (if you dont have a wireless network, you can only connent via a PC running XP until the lan adapter comes out), but am chomping at the bit to download some classic games.

But the big surprise for mw was that I can download Sega Megadrive (genesis to you guys stateside) games! Since Sega is a software only company now, it isn't unreasonable that they would also license all there back catalogue games for their old system to Apple also.

download sonic right on to your itv.

All itv needs is a decent wireless controller.

Plus I heard the guts of the Wii are a good 5 years old or more - the gamecube inards - surely it wouldn't be that expensive for Apple to throw the equivilent into itv, im sure the most expensive parts of the wii are probably the controllers.

Of course, Apple could just buy nintendo, which I hope they do.

That's my 2 cents.

 

[AppliedVisual]

Plus I heard the guts of the Wii are a good 5 years old or more - the gamecube inards - surely it wouldn't be that expensive for Apple to throw the equivilent into itv, im sure the most expensive parts of the wii are probably the controllers.

Er... No. The hardware components inside Wii are fairly current. In fact, it can do just about everything the XBOX 360 and PS3 can do with the exception of the HD video processing and output.

Of course, Apple could just buy nintendo, which I hope they do.

I know this is a rumor that circulates around here a lot, but Apple isn't going to just "buy" Nintendo. I don't think people realize just how big Nintendo really is and what they're worth. Nintendo rules the portable gaming market - always has. I could see Apple doing some sort of merger with a company like Nintendo, but for now I think Nintendo will do best on their own. The Wii is a good product and will do just fine... It's already on pace to out-sell the Gamecube, which even though it didn't sell as well as the PS2, sold more than the XBOX and was a very good console. Nintendo shot themselves in the foot with the design using the 3" DVD discs though. It didn't curb piracy because the compact DVD-Rs were available anyway for camcorders and other such devices and they work in standard DVD drives and it just gave developers less space to work with. Wii isn't going to suffer from that same issue, but by not going with HD capabilities and sticking with standard-size DL DVD media (think just about 9GB per disc capability), it will do just fine.

Where Apple could really benefit from a game system is to provide media tie-ins with the Wii that work similarly to how the XBOX 360 can stream media off of your local PC systems. I think they could partner with Nintendo and make iTV and Wii work together... Could be a nice combination.

 

[lorductape]

Er... No. The hardware components inside Wii are fairly current. In fact, it can do just about everything the XBOX 360 and PS3 can do with the exception of the HD video processing and output.

how does that explain how bad the graphics are by way of comparison?

 

[lorductape]

I read a thing a few months back that suggested that for every 100 applications or games written for the PC platform, only 5 are also ported to the Mac.. and it is that poor software and game support that will prevent the Mac from ever gaining a significant portion of the home computer market.

you could just say 1 out of 20

 

[AppliedVisual]

you could just say 1 out of 20

I would say that 1 out of 20 is a bit optimistic. It's more like 1 out of every 20 titles that are worth consideration are ported. In actuality, I bet it's about 1% of all commercial game titles make it to the Mac. Too bad...

 

[cloud 9]

if apple would ever be even remotely interested in the gaming market, they should start with picking up the pace of the graphic cards game.

my brother almost bought himself a imac 24 inch, he loved the screen, the simplicity and the os. but he couldn't live with the 'poor' graphic card since it will 'only last' for games that are currently released and not for something released in +6 months. he bought himself a computer with a graphic card with 700something megabyte...


they are not going to enter the game console market. tho i would love to have a console in the shape of an apple

 

[R.R.Mac]

guys i think that they should bring out a 'gamepod' (or whatever you want to call it ) This gamepod would have to be portable. It would have to be able to sync with apples and PC's. It would need wireless functions and instead of having disks, cartriges and so on, have a hard drive in it, PLEASE BEAR WITH ME HERE! What they would need do to sell the games is to have cd/dvd disks and to be able to put them into a computer. Once they have done this they can click a button and put in onto the gamepod. Also they would not be able to put it onto the gamepod if they were not connected to the internet (security reasons). Once it is onto the internet and onto your gamepod you would not have to put the disk onto it. This would be very convienient. It has to be connected to the internet so that if the disk was installed onto more than one gamepod, next time you sync with your computer for diary, calender and so on, or another disk. IF you had installed a disk onto another gamepod it would delete it.

Also apple have a great opportunity here. The game console market is a duopoly. This leads to supernormal profits in the long and short run. It used to be a monopoly which also leads to those profits. Apple needs to join the market with a great console and loads of advertising. This would make the market into a oligpoly, this also leads to supernormal profits.

Game developers will look at the product and make their products for them as they will benifit from them more then any other system (gameboy and PSP can be hacked). Some games will be absolutally amazing, off the top of my head grand theft auto will be amazing, also ridge racer and even games like medal of honor and coded arms.

If apple launches this gamepod they will be able to gain absolutally amazing profits out of it. If it is like my description and does not fail (like my PSP at the moment ) apple will have an amazing deal on their hands and they will be able to make massive profits out of it.

Apple are missing out on millions of £ if not billions if they choose not to do this. Really i think it would be one of the smatest moves apple could do to boost their profit.

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

For a "Media Center to have these issues with gaming,graphics and Tv is strange to say the least. These are the foundations in todays media world. 7600Gt is rock solid by the way,only in fairness it has to push a monster display in iMac, a 20" running a 7600GT would scream. Apple has the hardware to choose from as anyone else in the PC world. A simple hardware option could turn any Mac into a gaming powerhouse, its called the video card.

 

[PtMD]

The Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD competition could be avoided entirely by a download service. Broadband continues to get faster and faster, downloadable games and music are already a reality thanks to steam and itunes. Add this trend to the fact that most people are happy with the quality of their current DVDs, and iTV already makes a lot of sense.

It's only a matter of time until iTunes offers HD movie downloads, why take a risk on HDDVD or Blu-Ray when you can stick with the extremely well established iTunes? You can download music and HD movies cheaply and easily.

Storage may become an issue, but harddrives have come down in price considerably over recent years. Hell we will probably be streaming full length HD movies in the future- we're already streaming HD trailers in front row.

I disagree. How much time before that is a feasible option for the vast majority of internet users out there?

In my case, I can’t get fios, and don’t see the value in an OC3. So, I have cable with a sustainable download rate of 450KB/s. I would consider this at least average throughput for the US (where I live). If I wanted to download a Blu-Ray equivalent quality1080P 2hr movie, it would take me 12+ hours if I choose not to use my link to download anything else or perform any work from home (both of which are very unlikely).

Now you may say, you just download it in advance while you are sleeping and watch it a few days later. The problem there is, I don’t like to wait. If that’s the case and I am going to wait for the movie, I may as well rent it through netflix.

So, even if I wanted to wait for it, how much will it cost me to purchase this downloadable HD content and store it on a fairly reliable raid 5/6 solution? I would expect a premium price for HD content on the iTunes store, compared to their SD content. So, I would venture a guess of $20 for new releases and an additional $10 worth of array space (prorated NAS system and controller included).

Also, how many movies titles can I expect in HD through iTunes compared to what is widely available at a brick and mortar? I think iTunes would launch with fewer titles, but it should be able to catch up once the Studios jump on board. This is just as risky as the format war debate in my mind however.

All things considered in my reality, I prefer to drive to Best Buy, pick up a movie for $25 that matches my current mood, and watch it 15 minutes later.

What Blu-Ray or HD-DVD doesn't provide me is next day access to TV shows I may have missed for one reason or another. Which is what I use iTunes for most and would likely be the driver for me to purchase an iTV. That and the dream of being able to replace my disparate TiVos with a more network-hub focused, iPod friendly, family of devices.

Lastly, I may be *old* having lived through the CD Audio fad, but I prefer to have a copy of my music/movies on optical media. I have burned through quite a few hard drives in my day and prefer to have a non magnetic copy. I have CDs and DVDs considerably older than my oldest functioning hard drive. It’s comforting to know I can rip them again (for fair use of course) as needed from the originals. If the iTunes store had a policy where you could re-download your content, I wouldn’t so much mind then, but they don’t (at least I don’t think they do…).

 

[gregorsamsa]

Are Apple ambitious enough?

guys i think that they should bring out a 'gamepod' (or whatever you want to call it ) This gamepod would have to be portable. It would have to be able to sync with apples and PC's. It would need wireless functions and instead of having disks, cartriges and so on, have a hard drive in it, PLEASE BEAR WITH ME HERE! What they would need do to sell the games is to have cd/dvd disks and to be able to put them into a computer. Once they have done this they can click a button and put in onto the gamepod. Also they would not be able to put it onto the gamepod if they were not connected to the internet (security reasons). Once it is onto the internet and onto your gamepod you would not have to put the disk onto it. This would be very convienient. It has to be connected to the internet so that if the disk was installed onto more than one gamepod, next time you sync with your computer for diary, calender and so on, or another disk. IF you had installed a disk onto another gamepod it would delete it.

Also apple have a great opportunity here. The game console market is a duopoly. This leads to supernormal profits in the long and short run. It used to be a monopoly which also leads to those profits. Apple needs to join the market with a great console and loads of advertising. This would make the market into a oligpoly, this also leads to supernormal profits.

Game developers will look at the product and make their products for them as they will benifit from them more then any other system (gameboy and PSP can be hacked). Some games will be absolutally amazing, off the top of my head grand theft auto will be amazing, also ridge racer and even games like medal of honor and coded arms.

If apple launches this gamepod they will be able to gain absolutally amazing profits out of it. If it is like my description and does not fail (like my PSP at the moment ) apple will have an amazing deal on their hands and they will be able to make massive profits out of it.

Apple are missing out on millions of £ if not billions if they choose not to do this. Really i think it would be one of the smatest moves apple could do to boost their profit.

I accept the merit of much of your post, however, I'm seriously beginning to doubt whether Apple have the ambitions to take on any major markets & the investment that would entail. The gaming market, particularly, would need a consistent & significant investment over a few years. Apple won't do this.

In my 14 months of Mac ownership I've met plenty of people who would've switched to Mac if only Apple's consumer range had dedicated graphics. I personally know of a few PC owners who resisted a Mac mini purely because of its graphical deficiencies. Even the iMac's graphics, IMO, leave much to be desired by today's standards. But despite the obvious, Apple have sat back on their laurels & done nothing about this. Why?

Apple have sold about 5m Macs this year; really, no great shakes in view of the problems MS have had bringing out Vista & the consequent recession in PC sales. However, most of said 5m Macs seem to have gone to previous Mac owners. This kind of loyalty may bode well for Apple's future, but it also induces Apple with a certain kind of smugness, which is then reflected in how it conducts its business plans. Apple know they can stay well in profit without taking any risks.

Your ideas may be sound, but it would take (as you say) "loads of advertising", which, apart from the nauseating "I'm a Mac" internet ads, is an idea almost anathema to Apple.

People may knock MS, but whether with Vista, Xbox or Zune, MS thinks big. Apple make wonderful products, & I love my Mac, but apart from the phenomenal (& unexpected) success of iPod, Apple will continue to do just enough to satisfy its loyal user-base. - As for me, next year I'll be buying any computer or games console that suits my gaming needs.

 

[zap2]

I'm seriously beginning to doubt whether Apple have the ambitions to take on any major markets & the investment that would entail. The gaming market, particularly,

Seeing how the iPhone by Apple is more a matter of when it will come vs if it will come, I think Apple is taking on that HUGE market. Not to mention everyday Apple takes on the Personal Media Market, which they helped to make, and the computer market which the helped to make.


The gaming market involves pouring TONS of cash in a system...look at MS they have lost billions on xBox. Apple can't afford to take that kind of a lose, and more importantly they have no need to take that loss.

 

[gregorsamsa]

Seeing how the iPhone by Apple is more a matter of when it will come vs if it will come, I think Apple is taking on that HUGE market. Not to mention everyday Apple takes on the Personal Media Market, which they helped to make, and the computer market which the helped to make.


The gaming market involves pouring TONS of cash in a system...look at MS they have lost billions on xBox. Apple can't afford to take that kind of a lose, and more importantly they have no need to take that loss.

Indeed, but I consider the iPhone (or whatever they'll call it) to be part of Apple's low-risk strategy aimed purely at its existing hard-core, loyal user-base. It's a strategy which has resulted in the potential growth of OS X's user-base being consolidated at a disappointing approx 20m when, IMO, it could be far higher. I disagree that they any longer take on the Personal Media Market. These days I think Apple merely consolidate their strong position, but at a time when MS has been in pretty poor shape & there for the taking.

My feeling is that when Vista's inevitable problems are addressed with a SP1 or SP2 edition, Apple will look back on this period with regret at losing a golden opportunity to have made a greater impact in the computer market.

 

[AppleIntelRock]

Most of Nintendo's products as of late seem very apple- like. Honestly, I don't know how apple could produce a gaming system.