Apple Vision Pro May Now Be Out of Production

[Ctrlos]

You can kind of see where Apple was going with the marketing. It wouldn't have been enough to just sell it to industry and education; they needed to demonstrate how it could (ventually) make a difference in people's personal lives too. The pricing was just too high to achieve anything close to mass adoption and it didn't gel with buyers.

The device itself though is anything but a failure at what it does though. Not everything has to be a commercial success. Indeed sometimes its nice to see companies just making cool **** again.

Think back to Sony at the turn of the century. In 1999 they released a robot dog that didn't sell more than 100,000 units but it was cool-as and crucially gave people the impression Sony were ahead of their time which helps them sell more TVs. They then went on to release a box that could beam Live TV over the internet to a PocketPC, PSP or Laptop years before Slingbox or Netflix and when the web could barely manage it. Japan used to be the envy of the west for all this kind of stuff, from the internet gaming services of the NES and SNES to 3G and Camera phones when they seemed esoteric.

Its ok if Vision Pro doesn't sell well. Its ok if they screwed up the marketing. Its hardware developments (eg LiDAR) helped make other products better and unlike Aibo as a pleb you can walk into a store and at least have a demo and form an opinion without having to buy one. Does it solve any problems? No. Will most of us buy one? No. Is it a well made product? Heck, yes. It proves Apple still have the ability to make something interesting in an industry that doesn't anymore and that should be enough.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Aibo as a pleb you can walk into a store and at least have a demo and form an opinion without having to buy one. Does it solve any problems? No. Will most of us buy one? No. Is it a well made product? Heck, yes. It proves Apple still have the ability to make something interesting in an industry that doesn't anymore and that should be enough.

I honestly just think we are giving them too much of a pass here

Just making great hardware with kind of a half baked software situation and no content or developer story is the sort of thing we would ridicule other companies for…rightly so.

A “well-made product” needs to include the software and usage side

This should not have been released to the public as is would be my contention

The lack of sales and discontinuation of manufacturing in under a single year of release kind of speaks for itself. People can say all day long “Apple expected this”, but I really don’t think that’s true

They thought this would be way bigger than it currently is…. Time will tell with what happens here.

If there is a future version of this product, I could see it making a lot of big changes and if that’s true, it will be an indictment on what they did actually release here

 

[surferfb]

I honestly just think we are giving them too much of a pass here

Just making great hardware with kind of a half baked software situation and no content or developer story is the sort of thing we would ridicule other companies for…rightly so.

A “well-made product” needs to include the software and usage side

The software is incredibly well made. You're grasping at straws here. And it's a hell of a lot easier to justify investing significant money in immersive content when there are devices out there to take advantage of it. Would I have loved Apple to have had twice or three times as much of immersive content than they do now? Of course. Would I have rather them waited a year so that they could do so? Absolutely not.

This should not have been released to the public as is would be my contention

Well there are hundreds of thousands of happy customers who are glad it was released to the public as is. I literally use mine every day. And by the time the technology gets to a place where it is a mass-market product, there will be a good amount of apps and content for them to enjoy.

The lack of sales and discontinuation of manufacturing in under a single year of release kind of speaks for itself. People can say all day long “Apple expected this”, but I really don’t think that’s true

They thought this would be way bigger than it currently is…. Time will tell with what happens here.

I think they think that spatial computing will be way bigger than it currently is. But surely you don't think Apple is stupid enough to think that a product that starts at $3500 would sell like gangbusters. As I detailed earlier - $3500 is more than the average American's monthly take-home pay.

What do you really think is more likely: 1) Apple with all their experience and all the incredibly smart people working there couldn't figure out something that laypeople could: the fact that a completely new computing paradigm that starts at $3500 wasn't going to fly of the shelves OR 2) Apple intentionally released a high-tech, high-priced product intended to get creators, developers, and early adopters interested even though they knew it wouldn't sell as well as most of their products do, so that when the technology was ready for the masses at a price that makes sense there would be compelling reasons to pick one up.

If there is a future version of this product, I could see it making a lot of big changes and if that’s true, it will be an indictment on what they did actually release here

I suspect significant changes are incoming. But that isn't necessarily an indictment of what they released.

 

[mosesvii]

Direct opposite from my buddy. Kept their quest, but sold the AVP.. It couldn't be shared with his kids, they couldn't plug their consoles (mainly the Switch) into via HDMI, and since he works in IT across Mac and PC, and it was useless with his PCs.

I'll say this again:

1) Make it multi-user
2) Make it platform-agnostic, either via the OS or allowing non-proprietary video input.

It obviously comes down to use case. I'm not a child and care about the quality of the screen. I also have no desire to game in the headset.

The quest is great for its price, for my needs though it's utter trash. It's simply not a good experience.

 

[RichHI]

I really wanted to buy this. I have always wanted a big screen experience on my many long haul flights. I used to use a Sony Glasstron back in the day but it was very tiring as it was so heavy. I hope that Apple follows other products in segments. A new Vision Pro for the technocrats, a Vision SE which is made to a price at a lower quality level and, key for me, A vision air which keeps the quality of the Pro but focuses on being lightweight and suitable to wear for long periods. Lighter materials and off loading as much as possible to iphones or macs and running without a battery option on ac power via the iphone or mac through usb c. I hope someone in Apple team reads this as Vision is the best new idea from Apple for years but it needs developing for the various user segments.

Just had another thought… as these glasses are part of the solution for 3D, maybe apple tv, itunes as was, could carry 3D versions of movies for use with vision. Now that would be very cool.

 

[surferfb]

Just had another thought… as these glasses are part of the solution for 3D, maybe apple tv, itunes as was, could carry 3D versions of movies for use with vision. Now that would be very cool.

This already exists with the current version. There’s a ton of 3D movies on iTunes and AppleTV, as well as apps like Disney+

 

[RichHI]

Excellent news, thank you. One question, when you buy a regular 2d title, when 4K becomes available you automatically get the upgrade. If you plug in apple vision does it automatically offer you the 3d version or is it a requirement to buy two separate items?

 

[surferfb]

Excellent news, thank you. One question, when you buy a regular 2d title, when 4K becomes available you automatically get the upgrade. If you plug in apple vision does it automatically offer you the 3d version or is it a requirement to buy two separate items?

If you bought it through iTunes, it is an automatic free upgrade. There have apparently been some issues for people who redeemed via Movies Anywhere or a code that came with a blu-ray/dvd, but I haven't personally experienced that. Also not sure if geography plays any role in that; might be a licensing thing.

I'll add I prefer watching 3D content on the AVP over seeing it in theaters with the glasses. I find the colors are more vibrant (probably because you're not wearing 3D glasses).

 

[RichHI]

Cool. I buy all my content on iTunes/apple tv. great news.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Once again, the entire tech industry is trying very hard to innovate ways to make larger screens MOBILE. The ways that exist now:

1. Folds
2. Rolls
3. Projector
4. Virtual

#1 & #2 have well documented shortcomings and passionate "anti" stances posted in a thousand threads (likely to flip flop should Apple roll out their cut of either). But chief among them relative to THIS post is as screen size scales up, so does size & weight. Imagine Vpro's 100" screen size as a fold or roll device. Look how BIG that hardware is. Think how HEAVY it would be. How many hinges & folds are needed for a mobile 100" screen? How many hinges & folds would it take to pack your biggest TV for "mobile" uses anywhere you go? How heavy is your 'unfolded' TV now, before we add all those hinges to try to make it a mobile screen?

#3 & #4 can scale their screen sizes to about any size without scaling size & weight. But #3 generally has the requirement of a dark environment to work well... and there's no privacy.

Only #4 works in brightest light or darkest night, at the same size & weight, anywhere someone happens to be.

We're so anxious to dance on the grave of Vpro (many of us were doing that before it even launched or we even fully knew what it was) and yet the fall-back is what exactly? Folds & Rolls with fixed sizes, scaling weight with size, hinges & creases? Projectors which only work in relative darkness? What do we want as the replacement tech that delivers bigger mobile screens from Apple? Even bigger brick phones? Much heavier MBs at 24" & 30", etc? How do you want to get to bigger mobile screens without a Vpro-type option?

For anyone who benefits from doing their computing on a screen larger than 16" (which is very likely many of us), here's a way to have such a screen wherever you are... high resolution sharp (unlike those "cheaper competitors") and "just works" with Apple stuff. This screen can be ANY size on demand... and user can put other screens around the giant screen if they want to keep up with or access other information while doing whatever we are doing on that giant screen.

But no. Let's just hate this. It's some kind of movement now. We can't see it any other way. We're married to one 'vision' with no capacity to "think different." We're committed to a cause that doesn't even have to affect those who don't like/want this product. Apparently, we'd rather watch our movies on the airplane on a relatively tiny iDevice screen... or try to do our work on a relatively tiny (and open to all nearby eyes) laptop screen assuming we have the room to even use a MB in cramped aisle 17C seating.

If we step back and take a fresh look at this thing, it's NOT something everyone must buy (so if you don't like it, ignore it). It is a new and effective cut at the INDUSTRY goal of BIGGER mobile screens on demand without having to scale size, weight and/or need towards darkness to use. You get complete privacy of whatever you are viewing (unlike the other 3 options) and you can summon that giant screen ANYWHERE... including the cramped quarters of seat 17C... where you may not even have enough room to open a tiny 14" MB. There's no hinges, no creases, no physical spatial requirements to place this enormous screen. It can seem to exist well out in front of you even if seat 16C is only a matter of inches in front of your face.

But let's just keep trying to will this thing away though... and look forward to then trying to replace the ongoing broad market want for larger mobile screens with relatively tiny fold/roll options... or projectors... because that will be so much better than an any-size, private screen at a fixed size & weight small enough to take with us on the go and displays well in bright light or dark night.

"Think different!"

 

[Marx55]

If no other devices existed on the market and there was no competition.

I meant, working with prescription glasses. And of course much cheaper.

 

[nathansz]

Once again, the entire tech industry is trying very hard to innovate ways to make larger screens MOBILE. The ways that exist now:

1. Folds
2. Rolls
3. Projector
4. Virtual

#1 & #2 have well documented shortcomings and passionate "anti" stances posted in a thousand threads (likely to flip flop should Apple roll out their cut of either). But chief among them relative to THIS post is as screen size scales up, so does size & weight. Imagine Vpro's 100" screen size as a fold or roll device. Look how BIG that hardware is. Think how HEAVY it would be. How many hinges & folds are needed for a mobile 100" screen? How many hinges & folds would it take to pack your biggest TV for "mobile" uses anywhere you go? How heavy is your 'unfolded' TV now, before we add all those hinges to try to make it a mobile screen?

#3 & #4 can scale their screen sizes to about any size without scaling size & weight. But #3 generally has the requirement of a dark environment to work well... and there's no privacy.

Only #4 works in brightest light or darkest night, at the same size & weight, anywhere someone happens to be.

We're so anxious to dance on the grave of Vpro (many of us were doing that before it even launched or we even fully knew what it was) and yet the fall-back is what exactly? Folds & Rolls with fixed sizes, scaling weight with size, hinges & creases? Projectors which only work in relative darkness? What do we want as the replacement tech that delivers bigger mobile screens from Apple? Even bigger brick phones? Much heavier MBs at 24" & 30", etc? How do you want to get to bigger mobile screens without a Vpro-type option?

For anyone who benefits from doing their computing on a screen larger than 16" (which is very likely many of us), here's a way to have such a screen wherever you are... high resolution sharp (unlike those "cheaper competitors") and "just works" with Apple stuff. This screen can be ANY size on demand... and user can put other screens around the giant screen if they want to keep up with or access other information while doing whatever we are doing on that giant screen.

But no. Let's just hate this. It's some kind of movement now. We can't see it any other way. We're married to one 'vision' with no capacity to "think different." We're committed to a cause that doesn't even have to affect those who don't like/want this product. Apparently, we'd rather watch our movies on the airplane on a relatively tiny iDevice screen... or try to do our work on a relatively tiny (and open to all nearby eyes) laptop screen assuming we have the room to even use a MB in cramped aisle 17C seating.

If we step back and take a fresh look at this thing, it's NOT something everyone must buy (so if you don't like it, ignore it). It is a new and effective cut at the INDUSTRY goal of BIGGER mobile screens on demand without having to scale size, weight and/or need towards darkness to use. You get complete privacy of whatever you are viewing (unlike the other 3 options) and you can summon that giant screen ANYWHERE... including the cramped quarters of seat 17C... where you may not even have enough room to open a tiny 14" MB. There's no hinges, no creases, no physical spatial requirements to place this enormous screen. It can seem to exist well out in front of you even if seat 16C is only a matter of inches in front of your face.

But let's just keep trying to will this thing away though... and look forward to then trying to replace the ongoing broad market want for larger mobile screens with relatively tiny fold/roll options... or projectors... because that will be so much better than an any-size, private screen at a fixed size & weight small enough to take with us on the go and displays well in bright light or dark night.

"Think different!"

They aren’t virtual screens, they are actual screens strapped to your face

the actual future of virtual screens will be holographic projection or and then neural implant

 

[SFjohn]

They aren’t virtual screens, they are actual screens strapped to your face

the actual future of virtual screens will be holographic projection or and then neural implant

If you’re 18 years old perhaps you’ll live that long & get your neural implant when you’re in you mid 80s, which will be retirement age by then… 😉

 

[nathansz]

If you’re 18 years old perhaps you’ll live that long & get your neural implant when you’re in you mid 80s, which will be retirement age by then… 😉

didn't say it would be soon

just that that is where we are heading

 

[chars1ub0w]

We're so anxious to dance on the grave of Vpro (many of us were doing that before it even launched or we even fully knew what it was) and yet the fall-back is what exactly? Folds & Rolls with fixed sizes, scaling weight with size, hinges & creases? Projectors which only work in relative darkness? What do we want as the replacement tech that delivers bigger mobile screens from Apple? Even bigger brick phones? Much heavier MBs at 24" & 30", etc? How do you want to get to bigger mobile screens without a Vpro-type option?

...

If we step back and take a fresh look at this thing, it's NOT something everyone must buy (so if you don't like it, ignore it). It is a new and effective cut at the INDUSTRY goal of BIGGER mobile screens on demand without having to scale size, weight and/or need towards darkness to use. You get complete privacy of whatever you are viewing (unlike the other 3 options) and you can summon that giant screen ANYWHERE... including the cramped quarters of seat 17C... where you may not even have enough room to open a tiny 14" MB. There's no hinges, no creases, no physical spatial requirements to place this enormous screen. It can seem to exist well out in front of you even if seat 16C is only a matter of inches in front of your face.

Well, you make it sound like this "virtual" thing is weightless. But there's a major cost and compromise, the human head is not comfortable with hours with lots of added weight without support. Notice we regularly have neck support on all kinds of seats. And the AVP is not beautifully balanced like a big telephoto zoom on a gimbal, it's front heavy. Note even big, heavy audiophile headphones can be uncomfortable to wear after a while despite their obvious sound quality. People complain about slightly heavier bicycle helmets, neck pain is well-documented there. For head devices, the ergonomics for heavy objects is simply not there yet. So if Apple can solve the weight problem, they can take a 2nd stab at cracking this market.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

I didn't say weightless. But relative to options #1 & #2 it would be FARRRRRRRRRRR less weight to carry around for Vpro-like 100" screens on demand.

I understand all the "strap this 'thing' to our faces" arguments. But the goal remains the goal. If we manage to bury Vpro and its virtual screens, which of the other 3 do we want instead?

• Projector seems next best since it too can summon any size screens without scaling up weight & size (and it does NOT need a face strap or head weight)... but it only works well in dark areas and there's no privacy.
• Fold & Roll options to 100" screens would be insanely bulky and heavy. If you have a big screen TV now, go give it a trial lift... then imagine adding the weight of all those hinges to be able to fold it down to a size that could go mobile with you.

The whole industry obviously wants to go BIGGER mobile screens. So pick your poison. I don't foresee a lot of additional room to maintain existing phone brick, tablet slab and/or laptop form factors but size those up another 20-40% and more. For example, MBpro 30" would be insanely sized and too heavy to carry around. MBpro 100" would probably need a dolly.

It's easy to fault Vpro and/or any of the other options. But the industry seems determined to go BIGGER mobile. So if we succeed at fully killing the "terrible" Vpro for <any and/or all the reasons it is hated by the anti-Vpro crowd>, which one do we want to replace it?

What we sling around is this hypothetical "regular glasses", generally desired at bargain prices, that can somehow deliver the same experiences... as if that is only a year or two away. But there's all kinds of problems with that idea if we actually want the same visual experience maintained. I suspect that is a decade(s) away in spite of "regular glasses" products existing now (because those are far inferior to the Vpro experience). So there is this time gap between now and when this magical "regular glasses" or perhaps magic contacts or optical implant device can be released... during which the industry still wants to go bigger mobile screens ASAP. Do we want iPhone 16" and MB 36"? Break out your Dollies for carting around up to 100" folding/rolling screens.

 

[RichHI]

Well, you make it sound like this "virtual" thing is weightless. But there's a major cost and compromise, the human head is not comfortable with hours with lots of added weight without support. Notice, we regularly have neck support on all kinds of seats. And the AVP is not beautifully balanced like a big telephoto zoom on a gimbal, it's front heavy. Note even big, heavy audiophile headphones can be uncomfortable to wear after a while despite their obvious sound quality. People complain about slightly heavier bicycle helmets, neck pain is well-documented there. For head devices, the ergonomics for heavy objects is simply not there yet. So if Apple can solve the weight problem, they can take a 2nd stab at cracking this market.

Totally agree. I had Sony Glasstrons in the 90’s and the heaviness meant I did not use them. Make them lighter and I will likely buy them.

 

[chars1ub0w]

The whole industry obviously wants to go BIGGER mobile screens.

Many manufacturers have made folding screen mobile phones. Apple will make them too if they can figure out how to make them thin and light enough. The reason Apple hasn't is because the technology is not yet there.

With the AVP, Apple didn't do what it usually does: bring together technology at the same right time and make something that has so few compromises, people are willing to explode that category into a new money-spinner. Apple went far too early. People didn't make significant content or apps. So it slowly fizzles out.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

I DO believe iPhone Fold will come... and probably soon. But then what? As is, unfold iPhone Fold and it's likely close to iPad Mini. That's great but how does it get bigger than about iPad Mini? There was that tri-fold option in a recent thread. So iPhone tri-fold and maybe it unfolds to about iPad 10" or 11" screen. Then what? quad-fold? quint-fold? octo-fold?

And what about laptops? There are already folding-screen laptops. But that too is playing around down at only 20"-28" unfolded screens. What's the path to what Vpro or Projector options can deliver in 2025: 100" screens? Is that a LOT of folds? A gigantic roll? Seeking out dark spots for a MB projector computer?

The industry goal is not just bigger screen mobile phones. It's bigger screen phones, tablets and laptops. Vpro is an interesting crack at that: a fixed weight & size device that can summon any size screen in brightest daylight or darkest night AND offers complete privacy too. When it is dead & buried as a crowd seems to want it, I don't look forward to trying to approximate something similar with a projector option or massive & heavy multi-folding boxes or large tubes of rollable screens. And yet, those are what's left and the industry seems to really want to go to bigger mobile screens.

 

[chars1ub0w]

And what about laptops? There are already folding-screen laptops. But that too is playing around down at only 20"-28" unfolded screens. What's the path to what Vpro or Projector options can deliver in 2025: 100" screens? Is that a LOT of folds? A gigantic roll? Seeking out dark spots for a MB projector computer?

For laptop size, you have to ask what size sells best? Out of 13", 14" and 16" laptops. I bet it's not the biggest size. Similarly, on the desktop, 27" monitors dominate the market, not 32" or bigger.

On trips, I can take my laptop and at my destination, I can plug into an Apple Studio monitor.
In a hotel, a HDMI cable can plug into a 55"-65" tv.
Or I can carry a 15.6" portable monitor if I really need an extra monitor at all times.

 

[chars1ub0w]

I DO believe iPhone Fold will come... and probably soon. But then what? As is, unfold iPhone Fold and it's likely close to iPad Mini. That's great but how does it get bigger than about iPad Mini? There was that tri-fold option in a recent thread. So iPhone tri-fold and maybe it unfolds to about iPad 10" or 11" screen. Then what?

Actually, I don't think a trifold iPhone will come. It will be too expensive. This one is very expensive already. Would be more than the cost of AVP if it came from Apple.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

One persons “too expensive” is a Corporation’s “wildly profitable” 💰💰💰

 

[chars1ub0w]

One persons “too expensive” is a Corporation’s “wildly profitable” 💰💰💰

True. But wildly profitable means you have to have sales volume. Apple's greatest achievement is to convince everyone that $1000 is a reasonable price to pay for a phone.

 

[fathergll]

Worse failure than the trashcan.

At least the AVP is trying to break into a very difficult space in the AR/VR work and still does something neat even if its extremely niche.

For the 2013 Mac Pro the only thing Apple had to do was put some Xeons in a new standard computer design but instead they design a cylindrical computer for no real reason besides Apple's hubris getting headlines at launch and it sat there for 6 years.

The end result of the 2013 Mac Pro direction impacted a lot of folks long term in a negative way.

 

[jo-1]

At least the AVP is trying to break into a very difficult space in the AR/VR work and still does something neat even if its extremely niche.

500 k is probably more than a year of MP sales - IMHO a very sound introduction of a test bench for a new device - because what the AVP is

For the 2013 Mac Pro the only thing Apple had to do was put some Xeons in a new standard computer design but instead they design a cylindrical computer for no real reason besides Apple's hubris getting headlines at launch and it sat there for 6 years.

Interesting - I've had one with two D700 GPUs - a screamer in speed - an amazing machine being small, versatile and IMHO nice design - sold it for 50 % of my purchasing prices after six years of using it - so it cost me close to nothing including the tax refund. No-brianer IMHO

The end result of the 2013 Mac Pro direction impacted a lot of folks long term in a negative way.

Really? I don't know anyone that owned it and disliked it - of course many nay-sayers that never intended to buy one criticized it for being small, energy efficient and and ultra fast. But that's a given in today's world - we see that here clearly repeating