Many of my Canadian friends with their vaunted single-payer system come to the USA for a few months each year, and they always arrange their surgeries and procedures for their time here, because the waitlists in Canada are so long. That 'free' system means shortages. The USA is almost as bad because of the dictates of the insurance companies, Medicare/Medicaid, and the AMA restricting the number of medical schools.
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Apple Vision Pro Used in World-First Cataract Surgery
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TVreporter
macrumors 68030
turbineseaplane
macrumors Penryn
Free with waits > Functionally nothing for a huge swath of the population that basically doesn't have anything (can't afford massive deductible and/or not worth using it due to that)
Bungaree.Chubbins
macrumors 65816
Particularly when those waits are triaged.
Our system here in Australia isn't perfect, but I'm very grateful for it.
WarmWinterHat
macrumors 604
The AMA restricting the number of medical schools is barely the problem.. there aren't enough nurses, period. Not in specific areas, but nation-wide. For every MD/DO you have, you need 3-4 nurses, and for surgeons, triple that.
Everyone has a reason why one is better than the other. My sister lives in Canada and loves the system there compared to here. She had 32 years of it in the US, and 8 in Canada. She was just bragging a few days ago on FB how she was able to get in and get treatment for a particular issue on her meager teaching salary, and her total out of pocket was less than $10 CAD.
I've worked in hospital healthcare for well over a decade now. It's world-class, and completely unaffordable and unattainable for a significant percentage of the population.
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Spot on. Yesterday I was at one of the two Apple Stores in Palo Alto, Ca. wanting to get a demo, but they were booked up for the day. From chatting with one of the employees they are still selling. Obviously not at iPhone rates, but around Mac sales rates according to the employee.
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turbineseaplane
macrumors Penryn
Boy I would hope they are selling in Palo Alto!
Right in Apple's backyard and one of the richest places on the planet.
If it isn't selling there, it REALLY isn't selling.
I'm not sure one can extrapolate out much useful data from the baseline of Palo Alto AVP sales.
And yet development has completely stopped. Sounds like a successful product to me, just like the newton
Agent007
macrumors 6502
The shareholder copium is real
Yeah... same with groceries, clothes, shoes, bicycles, radios, and other consumer goods.
It was an observation, not an extrapolation.
I get it... Many here find joy in wanting to believe AVP is a flop, not understanding Apple's long term goal with respect to developing VR/AR products.
Hajj.david
macrumors 6502a
Yea waiting 8 hours in the ER for bleeding in the lungs and paying $400+ a month for medicare is totally worth it compared to my experience in the USA of waiting less than 5 minutes in the ER and paying $200 a month (Was $0 a month last year) for private insurance that covers EVERYTHING. $0 deductible, $0 copay.
""GREAT"" system when I was working in Sydney, even the pharmacy I had to wait for simple medication, atrocious system.
Not to mention the hospitals were horrible in Syndey, raggedy and worn down, super understaffed. My aunt who lives in England regularly flies to America to get treated because lines span months and years for simple procedures
dannyyankou
macrumors Pentium
The market is definitely not ready, but I am excited about the future of spatial computing. I like to compare it to computers. The Macintosh came out in 1984, but the majority of households didn’t have a computer until 2000. It was mainly used for enterprise until that point, and then changes in technology like the internet enabled use cases that made it mainstream.
It’ll take a while to get there, but I’ll very bullish on augmented reality. I think AI will help a lot in this space.
It’ll take a while to get there, but I’ll very bullish on augmented reality. I think AI will help a lot in this space.
Hajj.david
macrumors 6502a
That is completely false. Apple is CONSTANTLY adding new features, AVP exclusive content, listening to user feedback. The only time I have EVER gotten a response from Apple via the Feedback Assistant tool was regarding AVP suggestions and reports. Of which they fixed in a .x update
WarmWinterHat
macrumors 604
I'm feeling a bit steamed after reading this, but going to play nice. I worked in Level 1 trauma ER for several years, and there is no ER anywhere that is 5 minutes, period, unless it's empty, or you're in a code blue/stroke situation. The average ER wait in the US is almost 5 hours. Ours often creeps up to 8-12 hours on weekends, and I'm in the Midwest, with three other hospitals next door.
As for insurance, I, on the other hand, pay triple what you pay, and still have a $4k deducible. Wife and I are well off, and can afford it, but still. Your experience and your insurance is rare enough to be notable.
Populus
macrumors 604
You know what? When it first launched (the M2 model) I immediately rejected the idea of owning one for many reasons. The first obviously because it isn’t sold at my country, the second one it’s exorbitant price, and the third one the lack of a use case.
While this circumstances haven’t changed much, lately, I’ve been fantasizing with the idea of using one with a Mac, as my second or third spatial desktops, to watch audiovisual content, or even play videogames.
Suddenly, I now see this device with more interest, so I went into eBay and found out there are some M5 units at just ~1500€, and they seem to be barely used. However, I discovered it has different sizes (W31?) and I discarded the idea of getting one in the second hand market.
While this circumstances haven’t changed much, lately, I’ve been fantasizing with the idea of using one with a Mac, as my second or third spatial desktops, to watch audiovisual content, or even play videogames.
Suddenly, I now see this device with more interest, so I went into eBay and found out there are some M5 units at just ~1500€, and they seem to be barely used. However, I discovered it has different sizes (W31?) and I discarded the idea of getting one in the second hand market.
WarmWinterHat
macrumors 604
That seems to be about the going price used. I usually see 1 or 2 on marketplace for around that (in USD). Buddy sold his for $1750 about a year go, after not even powering it up for almost three months.
Apple may be adding things here and there, but overall they are benchwarmers.
Hajj.david
macrumors 6502a
I live in Houston now, Memorial Herman in both times was less than 5 minute wait. Neither were immediately life threatening. When I lived in Tampa Bay, similarly both times I needed the ER was less than a 10 minute wait.
I have never had to wait 5 hours not for me, my wife, or my kids. Sure this is anecdotal but that has been my experience. I am referring to the time it takes to be triaged and taken somewhere, not for the lengh of the the visit itself, incase that wasnt clear. You could say I got lucky or live in an area with a good healthcare system (Houston does have the largest medical center/plaza in the world and best in the world care for cancer), but my experience in "free ($400 a month)" health care systems like Australia were horrible unless you love months/years long queues for simple things.
Don't worry about different sizes, first you can use your iphone to get measured and you can get the size you need, otherwise you can just go to the apple store and switch out your band for your size, free of charge. Also personally I like some of the 3rd party ones since I use mine most of the time without the light shield when working on my mac.
turbineseaplane
macrumors Penryn
Rychiar
macrumors 601
why would anything thats $3500 sell a lot? the Mac studios don't generally sell well either 🤷♂️
swm
macrumors 6502a
"We are now able to bring the world's best surgeon into any operating room, at any hour, from anywhere on the planet,"
this is factually wrong. latency is a thing and it still takes a few 100 ms of RTT from Europe to say south east Asia.
the man will be fine assisting the guy who is doing the surgery, but extremely reliable communication would be needed to remote control any machinery in real time.
Don't get me wrong, AVP is a brilliant tool and amazing technology, but it is not magic.
also wearing that stuff for multiple hours is very taxing to any individual, even if it's done for entertainment and not some mission critical stuff. and I am not convinced whether the device is able to operate continuously for multiple hours, as far I remember the battery pack was rated for 120 minutes or so.
so the path is correct, but we're absolutely not there.
this is factually wrong. latency is a thing and it still takes a few 100 ms of RTT from Europe to say south east Asia.
the man will be fine assisting the guy who is doing the surgery, but extremely reliable communication would be needed to remote control any machinery in real time.
Don't get me wrong, AVP is a brilliant tool and amazing technology, but it is not magic.
also wearing that stuff for multiple hours is very taxing to any individual, even if it's done for entertainment and not some mission critical stuff. and I am not convinced whether the device is able to operate continuously for multiple hours, as far I remember the battery pack was rated for 120 minutes or so.
so the path is correct, but we're absolutely not there.
WarmWinterHat
macrumors 604
We keep track of these stats. Average wait time to be seen, not total time, in the US is specifically 4 hours and 31 minutes. At this very moment, on a Tuesday afternoon, our wait is about three hours, and you'll be sitting or laying in a bed in the hallway because all our ER exam are full. Again, we're the largest hospital in the state, and have three competing hospitals side by side.
Speaking of Houston, we covered close to there at last hospital I worked at. The only level 1 trauma children hospital in three states, so if something bad enough happened, the kid had to be flown in..and you have no idea how much that cost.
cataract surgery... It used to take quite a bit of time to do, but now a quick surgery to perform, to benefit of doctors charging for it. In Canada, compensation rates were set on the surgery expecting a few hours, now reduced to ten minutes, those surgeons are top earners in the country.
Hajj.david
macrumors 6502a
Average is useless, the mean time to be seen in the USA is 24 minutes and is a lot more accurate stat since outliers massively throw off averages. Not to mention even if its 2 hours or EVEN 4 hours its significantly faster then the "free ($400+ a month) countries.
That was precisely the sort of issue that I was looking for as I read through the comments.
While it is easy to understand how an expert remotely joining an operation, to supply advice and guidance, could be beneficial, actually operating remotely would make me very nervous. It is the issues of what happens if the link fails, the device fails, etc.
There is also the issue that the remote person does not have the opportunity to satisfy themselves that everything in the operating environment is as it should be. They will have to rely on the staff at the remote location.
It might be worth the risk in some cases. Someone isolated in an Antarctic winter urgently needing treatment. Better to accept the risk than the alternative of not getting treated.