Apple VP of Diversity and Inclusion Denise Young Smith Leaving the Company

[tomegun]

Whatever happened to just hiring the best people at each position?

In short, racism happened to it.

 

[stockscalper]

As an HR director, I am often involved in the selection of candidates for the interview process as well as the process itself and the determination of the offer candidate. When looking at resumes, nothing matters beyond skill set, experience and potential. We don’t see color, religion, race, ethnicity, or sexual orientation, and certainly don’t make assumptions based on gender or age.

However, we don’t select based on those criteria either.

As it should be.

 

[MrX8503]

People should be hired based on SKILL level.

Having said that, if companies want more diverse employees, then they should fund social programs that assist those people. If companies want more female developers, then those companies should fund programs that promote/teach coding to women. It doesn't make sense to hire female developers to be more diverse when the truth is the vast majority of developers are male.

 

[melendezest]

People should get jobs based on their skill set and job history, etc

Not their ethnicity, ie something they didn’t have a say in (what heritage they were born into) and which has nothing to do with anything

Forcefully hitting diversity quotas is racist and A delusional progressive agenda

Imo

When the person doing the hiring is an impartial droid, then maybe this'll all be moot.

But until then, people will bring their personal bias and subconcious racism to the hiring process, even if they cannot admit it to themselves.

It's like communism; sounds great in theory, but it just doesn't work when you bring humans into the picture.

And when it's Americans...well...look to who our president is and why he's in office to understand why these programs are (sadly) necessary (although they'll be out soon enough if he and his sympathizers have their way).

EDIT: Incidentally, this lady was replaced by a blonde white woman. But I'm sure her race had nothing to do with her selection. Right? I mean, she's a woman. Right? I mean, how do we know either way? That's the conundrum that these programs address. They're meant to err on the side of caution against (intentional or not) blind optimism.

 

[blacktape242]

The problem with that argument is that their is about 40+ years of empirical evidence that doesn't actually happen. We are witnessing the end of white privilege and most white folks have issues with dealing with what minorities deal with on a daily basis.

Too many times when someone says Hire the right person, they mean hire the white person.

i disagree with the notion of "white privilege" completely and its racist concepts, but to each their own. We can agree to disagree.

 

[GermanSuplex]

i disagree with the notion of "white privilege" completely and its racist concepts, but to each their own. We can agree to disagree.

If it were called “getting a few-centuries of a head start”, would that make it better?

Do you realize there are people younger than 70 who remember when blacks and minorities couldn’t even piss in the same toilet as a white person? Do you realize racist statues are being defended by the President? Do you understand that in the 80’s, Black college-grad professionals in big cities couldn’t even get the same apartment as a white dishwasher? That as recently as the last 15 years history books intentionally omitted black history, and sugar-coated Native American genocide?

 

[Rum_Becker]

If it were called “getting a few-centuries of a head start”, would that make it better?

Do you realize there are people younger than 70 who remember when blacks and minorities couldn’t even piss in the same toilet as a white person? Do you realize racist statues are being defended by the President? Do you understand that in the 80’s, Black college-grad professionals in big cities couldn’t even get the same apartment as a white dishwasher? That as recently as the last 15 years history books intentionally omitted black history, and sugar-coated Native American genocide?

If that was the case why is "white privilege" used in countries that have not had segregations in the last 70 years. Just because whites were privileged 70 years ago in one country does not mean that whites had a few centuries of a head start, in fact just saying that sounds racist against all the other cultures in the world that have thrived in the past few centuries.

Next time I see see my Japanese friends I will apologize for the whiteness of myself and my people for the past 200 years. It's also nice to know that up until 15 years ago, the civil war was not taught in schools, nor was the slave trade taught. I don't know what the education system is like in the USA but even in canada we knew a lot about American black history and that was 30 years ago that I learned that in history class.

I guess for you teaching history would be more like changing history and facts like in the below video

 

[GermanSuplex]

If that was the case why is "white privilege" used in countries that have not had segregations in the last 70 years. Just because whites were privileged 70 years ago in one country does not mean that whites had a few centuries of a head start, in fact just saying that sounds racist against all the other cultures in the world that have thrived in the past few centuries.

Next time I see see my Japanese friends I will apologize for the whiteness of myself and my people for the past 200 years. It's also nice to know that up until 15 years ago, the civil war was not taught in schools, nor was the slave trade taught. I don't know what the education system is like in the USA but even in canada we knew a lot about American black history and that was 30 years ago that I learned that in history class.

I guess for you teaching history would be more like changing history and facts like in the below video

I have no clue what you’re talking about. This country was segregated a mere 50-odd years ago. I’m talking about the U.S... if you think a slave and a plantation owner both had equal opportunity, then I don’t know what to say.

 

[ocnitsa]

Here is the story, about a month old.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/9to5mac.com/2017/10/14/denise-young-smith-apology/amp/

Thanks for sharing...pretty

I had so much to say in response to this, but I decided to delete it before posting it.

I’ll just leave my response as this: Denise Young Smith is clearly an intelligent, capable, educated and wise woman who is too damned good for the crap that has been flung her way. Best of luck to this classy woman in her new endeavors.

I have to admit I wrote some stuff too and deleted it. It certainly is suspicious she left the post after that. And problematic.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Very bad look with the lack of diversity at the head positions at Apple

Initially bad yes. I find it odd that the first and surnames is the outgoing and incoming personnel for this role is very similar. Moreover Apple immediately states (paraphrasing) ‘hey cant wait till new employee arrives’ and yet more insulting is this employee has been with the company for over 20yrs! Not one blurb about her being a credit to Apple during her tenure and that should be obvious for an HR employee lasting THAT long.

Makes you wonde at all the recent triangle gestures by Apple executives during presentations and public views (only Cue hasn’t done it). Jobs has in his last few years at Apple too. Just saying.

Cue people complaining and arguing that people should be hired on merit and not race, as if there isn't currently a deep rooted problem regarding diversity that already affects the hiring process!

Well she was hired I’m sure based on merit 20yrs ago and has maintained that all this time. If it was just based on race she’d have been given the boot for a while now.

That was short lived. Wonder what went wrong.

Initially I had trough early retirement but looks like a more promisig and more spiritually rewarding job she’s after starting January.

It’s absurd that this is even a thing

Yes is IS Absurd! You can blame faulty human history of community, equality heck start with the Tower of Babel. Yes I completely agree this is absurd: the need for such a job, corporations and society needing this.

Most useless job title I’ve ever seen.

Obviously Apple and other large corporations don’t think so. I guess this is a personal view and the grass is greener as the saying goes.

Maybe she wants to reach future leaders before they become too jaded.

Bingo! Much more spiritually rewarding.

 

[thadoggfather]

Shame on SJW Apple. Turns out she *was* a martyr

https://nypost.com/2017/11/17/apples-diversity-chief-lasts-just-six-months

 

[budselectjr]

Shame on SJW Apple. Turns out she *was* a martyr

https://nypost.com/2017/11/17/apples-diversity-chief-lasts-just-six-months

Very alarming.

 

[LizKat]

Very alarming.

Well maybe she'll sue. It could be a landmark case... black woman argues for existence of diversity in hypothetical group of white males, gets fired by Apple for [hypothetically] implying that Apple's good to go the way it is although it is still pretty top-heavy in the white male category, even while the white male CEO says the company definitely needs and strives to become more diverse. Anyway the judges would need chiropractors for all the head spinning the respective lawyers would try to provide. And the weird thing is that both parties are actually on the same side.

But it sounds to me more like she's moving on to a place that can use her expertise and it will be a change of pace for her. Twenty years is a long time to spend in one corporation, even if her last post was a relatively recent switchup. New horizons at Cornell.

 

[Rum_Becker]

Here is a good video on why she left.

[doublepost=1511060655][/doublepost]

Well maybe she'll sue. It could be a landmark case... black woman argues for existence of diversity in hypothetical group of white males, gets fired by Apple for [hypothetically] implying that Apple's good to go the way it is although it is still pretty top-heavy in the white male category, even while the white male CEO says the company definitely needs and strives to become more diverse. Anyway the judges would need chiropractors for all the head spinning the respective lawyers would try to provide. And the weird thing is that both parties are actually on the same side.

But it sounds to me more like she's moving on to a place that can use her expertise and it will be a change of pace for her. Twenty years is a long time to spend in one corporation, even if her last post was a relatively recent switchup. New horizons at Cornell.

That's funny, diversity to Cook and other leftists is to have less white people. White people are already under represented at Apple and you keep repeating the word white in your post like it is some cancerous disease. Diversity is leftist code word for less white people.

Apple is already around 10% black, 10% latino, 20% asian and 55% white when white people make up 65% of the US population. I bet regressives would think that company with a ratio of 25% black, 25% latino, 25% Native, and 25% Asian would be true diversity, it would be so brave for a company to have numbers like that.

This Black woman got fired for thinking the wrong way and the left defends it, no wonder Trump won last year. As nasty as Trump is, he is a better person than than most of the regressive left, which is more or less the mainstream at this point.

 

[LizKat]

That's funny, diversity to Cook and other leftists is to have less white people. White people are already under represented at Apple and you keep repeating the word white in your post like it is some cancerous disease. Diversity is leftist code word for less white people.

Apple is already around 10% black, 10% latino, 20% asian and 55% white when white people make up 65% of the US population. I bet regressives would think that company with a ratio of 25% black, 25% latino, 25% Native, and 25% Asian would be true diversity, it would be so brave for a company to have numbers like that.

This Black woman got fired for thinking the wrong way and the left defends it, no wonder Trump won last year. As nasty as Trump is, he is a better person than than most of the regressive left, which is more or less the mainstream at this point.

Yo, the front paragraph of my post was largely satirical.. maybe I needed more emojis?

Diversity to me is about equal opportunity. Not equal outcome, just the chance to try if one is qualified for a position. I would expect that is what it's about at Apple as well. I have no idea what happened in the moments when Denise Young Smith and Apple were parting company, so it's a little difficult to piece together who decided what about her having said what she said at the Bogotá conference, and whether that or something else she said (or, heard) in an ensuing private conversation was what prompted a decison --by her or by others-- that she leave.

Personally I got what she probably meant to suggest there with her white-guys-can-be-diverse remark, and in a given situation it can be not only perfectly true but appropriate. However I can see where some people focused on other attributes of diversity might take exception, since what she said does run against the grain of our need to understand that institutionalized, historic white male dominance in industry is sometimes perpetuated inadvertently or unconsciously today in service of reducing opportunity for minorities. Her remark and that fact are like apples and oranges, actually, but we don't live anywhere near an oasis of logic.

I sure wouldn't have fired her over it though, since the remark is neither untrue nor an exposition of some policy effort on Apple's part -- and do we know for sure that someone actually did fire her for what she said in that conference? As I said, maybe she'll have more fun at Cornell... or, maybe not!

The "regressive left", eh?.... nice slur for some group you don't manage to identify very well, but unless you're slurring conservatives with the term I don't think it's a mainstream group. On this very board the conservatives have asserted that the mainstream now is conservative: remember President Trmp's red map after the election that he likes to show people who come to the Oval Office and hear him talk about how he won the election? I talk about thin margins in those red CDs but it's true the GOP cleaned up. So if I were you, I wouldn't worry about the regressive left, they must be some minority, even if they are breathing down the necks of the GOP in a lot of CDs by now, all things Trumpian considered.

It's not regressive to get it that white privilege is built-in background in this country similarly to how the asphalt is on a road: it's just there and sometimes it gets in the way of a minority getting an opportunity to advance when the merit is there but is outshone by the comfort of hiring someone else who is seen as more able to "fit in."

White privilege isn't necessarily something people use like a baseball bat, it's most often something that accrues to them without their even knowing it. If you're white you can expect to hail a cab uptown at 10pm when you see an empty cab approaching, and if you're not white then maybe you get that off duty light. That doesn't say anything about the white people trying to catch a cab. It says something about a cab driver selecting his fare. Yet when we say "white privilege" it's often white people taking umbrage at the very idea there's such a thing, as if it means they've done something wrong. We need better diversity education so that sort of misunderstanding gets cleared away.

You lost me at saying Donald Trump's a better person than people on the "regressive left". Donald Trump's people skills are an abomination. He has rafts of people trailing after him to clean up the messes he makes when he opens his mouth without a presidential script in hand. Whatever the attributes of this "regressive left" are, they'd have to work pretty hard to top ol' Don when it comes to putting foot in mouth or for that matter insulting entire swaths of the American public.

 

[Jsameds]

I don't see that anyone was citing your posts as vile. In one of your posts you elected to comment on another member's post about the tone of the thread, and you suggested that such a post didn't make a point about the thread itself. I beg to differ. It's legitimate to comment on the tone of a thread when it has deteriorated. Just because no one has found reason to "report" one or another post to the mods doesn't mean that a thread hasn't become unpleasant to bother reading -- as opposed to worth the effort, or enlightening... or even amusing.

As to the topic of the thread, I was dismayed to hear that Denise Young Smith was leaving and hoped that it was not merely because of the remarks she had made about diversity being possible amongst a group of white males (since that is true).

I'm perfectly capable of thinking that, and regretting her departure, even while I can also argue that we still have a long way to go in recognizing institutional racism and sexism and that companies do well to have an officer to help us focus on how we may inadvertently further that sort of discrimination, and how to grow past that to be more inclusive.

No I didn’t, read back. My post was specifically targeted and quoted as disgusting and you harped in in the conversation.

I seem to have offended a few people here and I’m just asking why.

 

[Digital Dude]

As a former employee of the technology culture in Silicon Valley in the early 80s, I recall when positions like this evolved. Back then it was just called 'affirmative-action' and 'equal employment opportunity.' Soon after, I was managing a field office in Europe, so I was oblivious to what was about to occur. When I returned in the early 90s, I was shocked by the transition. Many of my colleagues had become paranoid about being called a sexist or a racist; it was ridiculous. What I learned is that Americans don't do anything in moderation, especially in the corporate arena. We are quick to jump on the bandwagon and overcompensate; whether there is a real problem or not.

 

[thadoggfather]

As a former employee of the technology culture in Silicon Valley in the early 80s, I recall when positions like this evolved. Back then it was just called 'affirmative-action' and 'equal employment opportunity.' Soon after, I was managing a field office in Europe, so I was oblivious to what was about to occur. When I returned in the early 90s, I was shocked by the transition. Many of my colleagues had become paranoid about being called a sexist or a racist; it was ridiculous. What I learned is that Americans don't do anything in moderation, especially in the corporate arena. We are quick to jump on the bandwagon and overcompensate; whether there is a real problem or not.

"Americans don't do anything in moderation"

Rolleyes.
This isn't the reason.

It's the insane relentless Silicon Valley progressive liberal agenda. At any cost. Throwing logic by the wayside all so Tim can say what a great person he is and congratulate himself amongst his like minded elite peers. Enforcement of the singular view, wrapped up as respecting diversity.

You didn't see Steve Jobs introducing Michelle Obama at WWDC (Tim actually did this... ya know because Michelle is a world renowned developer). Or holding Obama fundraisers (Tim held Hillary fundraisers). Or firing off internal reactionary memos to President's every move.

 

[0388631]

To be fair, Jobs was sick and on the cusp of death.

 

[thadoggfather]

To be fair, Jobs was sick and on the cusp of death.

Oh come on with the irrelevant observation

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2011/08/24Steve-Jobs-Resigns-as-CEO-of-Apple/

Jobs resigned as CEO and became a board member in 2011

Barack Obama, last I checked, was president in 2008

I also don’t recall Jobs sending off internal #resistance memos to employees against the oppressive Bush regime from 2000-2008 (I didn’t like Bush either fwiw, globalist scum but.. just saying, he didn’t turn Apple into a pol machine)

 

[0388631]

Oh come on with the irrelevant observation

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2011/08/24Steve-Jobs-Resigns-as-CEO-of-Apple/

Jobs resigned as CEO and became a board member in 2011

Barack Obama, last I checked, was president in 2008

I also don’t recall Jobs sending off internal #resistance memos to employees against the oppressive Bush regime from 2000-2008 (I didn’t like Bush either fwiw, globalist scum but.. just saying)

Your timeline isn't remotely accurate. His health was in dire condition at around June 2008.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs#Health_issues

By December 2008, Schiller took the helm at Mac Expo. In January 2009, Tim Cook took over as acting-CEO. If you want to be specific, Obama was still President-Elect. Obama was not president in 2008. Also, when you use the word "globalist," you sound like a keyboard warrior, among other things.

 

[thadoggfather]

Your timeline isn't remotely accurate. His health was in dire condition at around June 2008.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs#Health_issues

By December 2008, Schiller took the helm at Mac Expo. In January 2009, Tim Cook took over as acting-CEO. If you want to be specific, Obama was still President-Elect. Obama was not president in 2008. Also, when you use the word "globalist," you sound like a keyboard warrior, among other things.

I can sound like howEver you feel, the fact remains George Bush was/is a globalist. As are the Clintons and the Obama’s

And how come Jobs never sent out relentless internal memos condemning how bad of a job Bush was Doing?

Oh right because he ran a tech company. Not some fake grassroots org, pretending to be in the business of
Being humanitarian while being completely reliant on $2/hr work from overseas in factories that have nets installed as a suicide preventative measure. Sounds legit

Jobs understood his place

And because Jobs was ill, necessarily meant he was physically limited from criticizing Obama? Incapable of using his mouth? How bizarre!

 

[0388631]

I can sound like howEver you feel, the fact remains George Bush was/is a globalist. As are the Clintons and the Obama’s

And how come Jobs never sent out relentless internal memos condemning how bad of a job Bush was Doing?

Oh right because he ran a tech company. Not some fake grassroots org, pretending to be in the business of
Being a humanitarian while being reliant on $2/hr labor force from overseas

Jobs understood his place

Yawn. Well, when you become the CEO to one of the world's most powerful companies, then you can do whatever you want. At the end of the day, Apple is still a 'leader' in tech and stock is improving each quarter. Keep railing. It's amusing.


You're doing nothing. Just sitting at home, posting angry rants online about what Tim is doing. Just ranting. Doing nothing to push your own idea. It's a free country, isn't it? Do something about it. Don't sit and rant. That's being useless.

 

[thadoggfather]

Yawn. Well, when you become the CEO to one of the world's most powerful companies, then you can do whatever you want. At the end of the day, Apple is still a 'leader' in tech and stock is improving each quarter. Keep railing. It's amusing.


You're doing nothing. Just sitting at home, posting angry rants online about what Tim is doing. Just ranting. Doing nothing to push your own idea. It's a free country, isn't it? Do something about it. Don't sit and rant. That's being useless.

You’re now moving on to stock valuation as some sorta metric of how effectively Tim’s virtue signaling and diversity enforcment is meshing at the workplace. Nice dude!

And also comparing me, an internet anon, with the accomplishments of Apple’s CEO.

additionally illustrating the obvious observation that Tim has free will to do as he pleases.

THe personal attacks are refreshing as I see we’ve moved on from some form of debate and transitioned into grumbling.

Have a good Sunday, is all I have left to say

 

[blacktape242]

If it were called “getting a few-centuries of a head start”, would that make it better?

Do you realize there are people younger than 70 who remember when blacks and minorities couldn’t even piss in the same toilet as a white person? Do you realize racist statues are being defended by the President? Do you understand that in the 80’s, Black college-grad professionals in big cities couldn’t even get the same apartment as a white dishwasher? That as recently as the last 15 years history books intentionally omitted black history, and sugar-coated Native American genocide?

Yes I’m aware of history. But the fact that I’m supposed to be held as a lesser person because of that history and my skin color is completely BS. Yes what happened was terrible. But I am not responsible for it and I do not owe anyone anything.