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Apple vs. French Tax
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Heres a rough translation detailing the tax:
The amount of the royalty will fluctuate, depending on the product type and storage capacity. The royalty varies between 10 euros (less than 40 Go) and 15 euros (more than 40 Go) for interactive television and between 8 euros (less than 5 Go) and 20 euros (40 Go) for the numerical walkmans, Home audio and car radios."
Original text:
"Le montant de la redevance fluctuera en effet selon les produits et en fonction de la capacité de stockage. La redevance varie entre 10 euros (moins de 40 Go) et 15 euros (plus de 40 Go) pour la télévision interactive et entre 8 euros (moins de 5 Go) et 20 euros (40 Go) pour les baladeurs, chaînes-hifi et autoradios numériques."
> source <
At least, we now know that as the iPod capacity will increase over 40 GB, the tax will top at 20 euros. It's hard to tax electronics and computers based on their specs because they evolves faster than the tax laws can.
Hmmm... that also means, that if Apple releases their rumored TV peripheral, this tax will apply. (15 euros)
It's kinda sad to see that Apple and the iPod will suffer from tax planned to offset the loss of illegal downloads/copies, when they're the main player in the "LEGAL DOWNLOADS" movement.
The amount of the royalty will fluctuate, depending on the product type and storage capacity. The royalty varies between 10 euros (less than 40 Go) and 15 euros (more than 40 Go) for interactive television and between 8 euros (less than 5 Go) and 20 euros (40 Go) for the numerical walkmans, Home audio and car radios."
Original text:
"Le montant de la redevance fluctuera en effet selon les produits et en fonction de la capacité de stockage. La redevance varie entre 10 euros (moins de 40 Go) et 15 euros (plus de 40 Go) pour la télévision interactive et entre 8 euros (moins de 5 Go) et 20 euros (40 Go) pour les baladeurs, chaînes-hifi et autoradios numériques."
> source <
At least, we now know that as the iPod capacity will increase over 40 GB, the tax will top at 20 euros. It's hard to tax electronics and computers based on their specs because they evolves faster than the tax laws can.
Hmmm... that also means, that if Apple releases their rumored TV peripheral, this tax will apply. (15 euros)
It's kinda sad to see that Apple and the iPod will suffer from tax planned to offset the loss of illegal downloads/copies, when they're the main player in the "LEGAL DOWNLOADS" movement.
maelstromr said:
Oh, you mean like the huge tariff the US imposed on Steel imports? The tariffs that the WTO declared illegal, but the US still refused to remove them? Or maybe the almost 50% tariff that was put on Canadian softwood lumber last year?
Sort of like the massive tariff slapped on Japanese car imports in the 70s and 80s because US manufacturers were so inefficient they couldn't compete? Even today there is a 25% tariff on Japanese trucks - bet you didn't know that, huh?
Get your facts straight, buddy. Taxes are tariffs are par for the course when operating in another country. Its just that Americans only hear about it and care when its one of their companies or industries that has to pay a tax or tariff. You likely never heard of the illegal steel tariff your country imposed, but I bet you would have if another country did it to you!
I disagree, and i will leave it at that. Let me ask, do you all pay your sales tax when you say live in KS and buy from an internet company in FL even though the FL company doesnt collect it from you.
Stella said:
claytonbench said:
How is that even related!?!? Your example deals within the same country, and involves a consumer buying a product from a store. We are talking about a foreign corporation selling goods in country, and therefore must abide by the local taxation laws!!! Using your logic a foreign company should be able to operate tax free in every other country in the world? How would domestic business stand a chance?!
Irrevelent.
You are quoting US laws, they do not apply in the Apple - France suitation. France is not in the US, the EU is not in the US (ref: EU international sales tax that I mentioned), and has separate laws.
(personally, I have not done this, since i have never lived in KS)
You are quoting US laws, they do not apply in the Apple - France suitation. France is not in the US, the EU is not in the US (ref: EU international sales tax that I mentioned), and has separate laws.
(personally, I have not done this, since i have never lived in KS)
claytonbench said:
No more nonsense
Taxing the iPod, a device that will soon be linked with the worlds most popular legitimate music download service, is silly! France should be happy that Apple is courteous enough to expand overseas with their revolution against piracy. Taxing each iPod would only cost the consumer, as in the price on the device raises 20 euros for the poor sap. its not that Apple thinks "theyre above the law of all those silly French wussies (figure of speech)", Apple is only trying to prove that the iPod is an intended device for carrying legitimately obtained music. It has nothing to do with Apple being a big arrogant cowboy trampling on the laws of foreign countries, its just how they determine where the iPod falls in with its competition. quit fueling the silly international playground fight and look at things from a new perspective, yeesh.
Taxing the iPod, a device that will soon be linked with the worlds most popular legitimate music download service, is silly! France should be happy that Apple is courteous enough to expand overseas with their revolution against piracy. Taxing each iPod would only cost the consumer, as in the price on the device raises 20 euros for the poor sap. its not that Apple thinks "theyre above the law of all those silly French wussies (figure of speech)", Apple is only trying to prove that the iPod is an intended device for carrying legitimately obtained music. It has nothing to do with Apple being a big arrogant cowboy trampling on the laws of foreign countries, its just how they determine where the iPod falls in with its competition. quit fueling the silly international playground fight and look at things from a new perspective, yeesh.
Do some people in the US think that every country in the world uses the dollar?
The tax in question is 20, not $20 euros.
Get a grip guys. The euro is not a subdenomination of the US dollar!
The tax in question is 20, not $20 euros.
Get a grip guys. The euro is not a subdenomination of the US dollar!
autrefois
macrumors 65816
Stella said:yep. americans seem to bash socialism rather alot... i expect most don't really know what socialism actually is... most seem to think that its communism.
People can correct me if I'm wrong, but you're basically right: I think most Americans think that socialism is Soviet-style communism, which is NOT true. So, many Americans think a socialist government is by definition undemocratic, totalitarian and against the will of the people. It's understandable that people think that, it's just not true though.
But I think that's probably a discussion for another forum.
miketcool said:
I disagree. I think France is courteous in letting Apple expand overseas.
(that was sarcasm by the way)
miketcool said:
May I be so bold as to remind you that it is the French government and the French people that decide on laws - or at least is should be that way. If France decides, wrongfully or not, that a 20 tax is a good way to fight piracy, what made Apple believe they're allowed to challenge that?
This disccusion is getting too political and is heading to Wasteland.
If they make people pay artists because of piracy, then they should allow piracy. It's a stupid idea but it makes more sense than charging a company a piracy tax when the company is involved in created the best solution to piracy of music ever.
Investors!
No no no. When iPod introduced the iPod, they attached the "Don't Steal Music" label with it. Under pressure from the music companies and artists, they removed iTunes file sharing. Paying a tax on a product they believe does more to decrease piracy then any other device on the planet would show submission. Submission in the way that they are saying, "yes this media promotes piracy and takes away from artists". Doing such a thing could slow downa European iTunes Music Store release or keeping out other independent labels. Apple has to prove that this device and the store are to stop piracy so they must keep the promise and thus, not pay a tax fot "pirate media". If the law was for electronic devices because it effected a large French hardware corporation, this would be different. But the law, written and voted by the people of France, states media that promotes piracy. Either make piracy legitimate or change the law to specify the iPod.
No no no. When iPod introduced the iPod, they attached the "Don't Steal Music" label with it. Under pressure from the music companies and artists, they removed iTunes file sharing. Paying a tax on a product they believe does more to decrease piracy then any other device on the planet would show submission. Submission in the way that they are saying, "yes this media promotes piracy and takes away from artists". Doing such a thing could slow downa European iTunes Music Store release or keeping out other independent labels. Apple has to prove that this device and the store are to stop piracy so they must keep the promise and thus, not pay a tax fot "pirate media". If the law was for electronic devices because it effected a large French hardware corporation, this would be different. But the law, written and voted by the people of France, states media that promotes piracy. Either make piracy legitimate or change the law to specify the iPod.
Unless you are in idiot, a person wont goto china to buy something just to avoid taxes. Domestic business would not be affected. I think if a business doesnt want to pay another countrys taxes then DONT. Other countries shouldnt be allowed to push their laws on another country.
The Cheat said:
My main point is that their is NO excuse for any tax. sorry i forgot to attach this to one of my other posts so i added it here
Oh look Canada is defending the French
US companies don't even pay US taxes, so frankly I'm not all that surprised. However, I do wonder if this law is fair given the context and that there may a possbility that Apple does not owe the tax, but rather the resellers do, hence the reason Apple is refusing to pay the tax. Furthermore, doesn't this constitute and kind of double taxation since both Apple and the consumer would be taxes on the same transaction? Apple may believe that these laws are inherently unfair.
I agree that French bashing is an entirely too easy and most people are just reacting emotionally. However, 'cheese-eating-surrrender-monkeys' is hilarious, you really can't pass that one up. I mean really, it's funny laugh.
Stella said:
US companies don't even pay US taxes, so frankly I'm not all that surprised. However, I do wonder if this law is fair given the context and that there may a possbility that Apple does not owe the tax, but rather the resellers do, hence the reason Apple is refusing to pay the tax. Furthermore, doesn't this constitute and kind of double taxation since both Apple and the consumer would be taxes on the same transaction? Apple may believe that these laws are inherently unfair.
I agree that French bashing is an entirely too easy and most people are just reacting emotionally. However, 'cheese-eating-surrrender-monkeys' is hilarious, you really can't pass that one up. I mean really, it's funny laugh.
kennethmac2000 said:
Sounds like an awful lot of indignation over a typographical error (he obviously wrote the word "euro" for a reason). Perhaps you should be the one to "get a grip."
My skills in French language are limited to Bablefishing and its latin origins. I once read Orson Scott Card -fluent in portuguese- stating that once you learn a latin language you have learnt them all. I would not be so bold, but having Spanish as my native language I do think I can understand most of the text in the article brought up by srobert-, so please forgive me if I did misunderstood something:Tommy Wasabi said:
[...]of taking the decision or not to tax the private copy in digital media[...]
the association of consumers responded "their right to a private copy" [of legally acquired audiovisual works, NEVER pirated ones].
This whole article debates around the French taxing to the right of making private copies of legally acquired audiovisual media, which lends me to think that the law content and purpose has nothing to do with piracy, its effects and methods to relieve them, and hence, that it is probably indeed quite similar to Spanish law, which taxes LEGAL PRIVATE COPYING to compensate for loss of potential sales (which, just in case, I will reiterate that I think is sick).
So, unless I mistranslated, Tommy Wasabi, it's 1-1
, at least until someone points me to an online version of the actual law.
how many americans in here already have been to france once ? hm anybody ?
some of the posts here reminds me of a 'Sprichwort' :
"Clean in front of your own door before you complain about others"
i know people from france,america,germany,switzerland,poland,italy,turkey,croatia,peru and met people from more countries like hungary,uk,spain,iran,india,russia,etc (i guess you get it) and the only prejudices that were right were
people from the UK : get sun-burns very fast
italy: they like pasta
germany: they like beer
switzerland: they talk 'funny german'
americans: they have serious problems with eating: cutting everything down to small bits ->take fork/spoon in right hand -> shovel everything into mouth very fast; they consider every house older than 50 as ancient
some of the posts here reminds me of a 'Sprichwort' :
"Clean in front of your own door before you complain about others"
i know people from france,america,germany,switzerland,poland,italy,turkey,croatia,peru and met people from more countries like hungary,uk,spain,iran,india,russia,etc (i guess you get it) and the only prejudices that were right were
people from the UK : get sun-burns very fast
italy: they like pasta
germany: they like beer
switzerland: they talk 'funny german'
americans: they have serious problems with eating: cutting everything down to small bits ->take fork/spoon in right hand -> shovel everything into mouth very fast; they consider every house older than 50 as ancient
Still irrelevent.
US Laws do not apply to this Apple v France case.
.. and I don't really care what happens if someone in KS buys something in MI or any other US state, it is not important (to me).
ROTFL, excellent post Kakao - quote below.
UK = drink beer, tactical chunder, drink more beer, go for a donna
, throw up again
and, Moan about rain
US Laws do not apply to this Apple v France case.
.. and I don't really care what happens if someone in KS buys something in MI or any other US state, it is not important (to me).
claytonbench said:
ROTFL, excellent post Kakao - quote below.
UK = drink beer, tactical chunder, drink more beer, go for a donna
, throw up again
and, Moan about rain
takao said:
If this Law was in place before Apple started shipping them, then they have no arguement, they've got to pay.
If it's a post-iPod law, then they can kick up a big bruhaha and see if it brings even more publicity to their flagship consumable, and then pay the tax.
If it's a post-iPod law, then they can kick up a big bruhaha and see if it brings even more publicity to their flagship consumable, and then pay the tax.
Savage Henry said:If this Law was in place before Apple started shipping them, then they have no arguement, they've got to pay.
If it's a post-iPod law, then they can kick up a big bruhaha and see if it brings even more publicity to their flagship consumable, and then pay the tax.
And think it will probably apply to any units sold after the law was adopted by the government and is independent of whether it's a pre- or post-iPod law...
-Takao
Great post
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