Apple vs. Mac OS X Hackers

[cloud 9]

Ok! I own and operate about every kind of computer and Operating System out today. As long as I purchase a license for each installation (or not as with Linux), I can legally install many different OS's on any computer I choose.

you're right, but a small minority has the proficiency to operate every well known OS. that's why they buy the hardware and the software.It's out of the box and easy, that's the philosophy of Apple.

if you buy it and install it on a pc, i'm fine, hell, for my part, you can even use the dvd to place your cup of tea on. just don't expect much support.

 

[jumpinjohn]

Ok! I own and operate about every kind of computer and Operating System out today. As long as I purchase a license for each installation (or not as with Linux), I can legally install many different OS's on any computer I choose.

<snip>
I really don't understand all you fanatical Mac Addicts anyway. Obviously the rest of the world doesn't think Macs are so great or you'ld have a larger market share. Even Linux has leaped ahead of you people in number of installations, because it is more versatile, runs on any architecture, and is now wholeheartedly supported by your former processor maker "IBM"! On top of that it's free! Who is Steven Jobs and Bill Gates most afraid of? Why Linux of course! It threatens their monopolistic control and is taking a bigger share of the pie money out of their pockets. Today there is very few computers that don't benefit from "Open Source" software or programs. Even your own beloved Apple and for sure Microsoft who are openly shipping commercial grade server software with their 64 bit OS and are about to pull an old discarded BeOS file system out to enable instant search capability in Vista. It will as BeOS did be sitting on a virtual database without the headache that Apple uses in maintaining one for instant search.

Apple has no corner on the market, and your Macs are not as great as you're led to believe. Apple keeps you all blinded and trapped with few games, DRM'd to hell, an almost totally hidden system and now Apple will further keep you under their thumb with a new fully DRM'd chipped Intel machine on the way to a store near you. I just plain won't accept that!

So go ahead live in your oh so narrow little world ruled over by a giant ego'd dictator in Steven Jobs. I'll just continue to use all of the resources available to me to make sure I'll always be in control of my own machines. Then if I choose to dine on a little Mac OS-X one night with Photoshop, some Win XP (or Vista) the next to game on, I will. Plus I will always be able to enjoy the Freedom and Luxury of "open source" Linux whenever I want. Remember, it has been said "Never Put All of Your Eggs in One Basket" and it is oh so true in the computer world!

I am a Mac Addict Zombie who has no mind and Steve Jobs tells me what to do everyday. Before that, I was a Bill Gates Zombie and took orders only from him. Before that, I was lost.

See 'ya

 

[daveslc]

Um, no.

Look at the SEC statements. They state the profit and margin figures.

And remember, the operating margin from hardware ALSO gets plowed into software R&D.

Sorry, but the numbers don't add up.

So, what are the numbers?

Bottom line is that the market share for apple hardware is about 5% of the total market. The market potential for OS X running on pc hardware (and powerpc) is 100% of the total market.

 

[dejo]

The market share for OS X running on pc hardware (and powerpc) is 100% of the total market.

You're confusing market share with market potential.

 

[laidbackliam]

So by your logic , becuase you can't buy pot in stores it indirectly encourages pot smoking. Id say someone has been smoking pot for sure...

studies have shown that that is actually true........

black markets create interest, put in stores and then "poof", the magic goes away. drug use among people in amsterdam went down when you looked at ALL drugs used. pot use went up, true, but there was no "in" to the black market anymore that got people into coke and heroin. so, "by his logic", he's correct.

 

[Peace]

studies have shown that that is actually true........

black markets create interest, put in stores and then "poof", the magic goes away. drug use among people in amsterdam went down when you looked at ALL drugs used. pot use went up, true, but there was no "in" to the black market anymore that got people into coke and heroin. so, "by his logic", he's correct.

May be true but go visit Amsterdam sometime.

 

[gwangung]

So, what are the numbers?

Bottom line is that the market share for apple hardware is about 5% of the total market. The market potential for OS X running on pc hardware (and powerpc) is 100% of the total market.

Do the math.

Margins are 22-27% for hardware. And that's TIGHT for most manufacturing businesses. Software is 40-60%. But hardware prices are 10-15 times that of operating system prices.

If you work out the gross operating profit for hardware vs. the gross operating profit for software, it looks like you will have to sell six to ten times as many operating systems JUST TO BREAK EVEN. And that's not including the expenses involved in changing your marketing from a hardware to software driven model, what added expenses [if any] are incurred with a software only model, and how are you going to survive the transition (because you're not going to ramp up to that quntiuple to ten times sales all at once).

Bottom line, anyone who thinks it's an easy matter to transform Apple from a hardware to a software isn't living in this reality. That transition is going to make all the trouble from the OS9 to OSX AND the PowerPC to Intel transitions look like a cakewalk. [And I'm not sure it's even possible][Think it'd be wayyyyyyyy easier to get the sales up to 10%]

 

[oviuan]

One simple answer...

Do the math.

Margins are 22-27% for hardware. And that's TIGHT for most manufacturing businesses. Software is 40-60%. But hardware prices are 10-15 times that of operating system prices.

If you work out the gross operating profit for hardware vs. the gross operating profit for software, it looks like you will have to sell six to ten times as many operating systems JUST TO BREAK EVEN. And that's not including the expenses involved in changing your marketing from a hardware to software driven model, what added expenses [if any] are incurred with a software only model, and how are you going to survive the transition (because you're not going to ramp up to that quntiuple to ten times sales all at once).

Bottom line, anyone who thinks it's an easy matter to transform Apple from a hardware to a software isn't living in this reality. That transition is going to make all the trouble from the OS9 to OSX AND the PowerPC to Intel transitions look like a cakewalk. [And I'm not sure it's even possible][Think it'd be wayyyyyyyy easier to get the sales up to 10%]

One product change everything on Mac... iPod.
Apple will cross the river to the PC market, and is not afraid of it.
You can't stop the unstopable.
Steve Jobs had 5 years running secretelly Mac OSX on PCs, and he might be more than right this time. There is time for peace, and time for war.
He won't loose Mac's Hardware buyers... thats will never happens.
Mac users love theirs Macs.
But he will win PC users who wants cool Mac hardware.
This is a real cross over. and nobody can't stop it.

 

[JurgenWigg]

Jobs has stated repeatedly that Apple is a hardware company (vs. Microsoft - a software company).

If Apple starts selling their OS to other companies like Dell, they would get destroyed, especially now that they're on the same chip as Windows.

Why would they get destroyed? Because a magnetic latch and a built in camera can't compete well with the discounts, sales, coupons, and all around low prices of Dell. Charging $150 more for a black macbook would be suicide.

Look at the plummeting costs for laptops these days. Already, the price of notebooks has dropped 18% from last year. Apple's prices have stayed the same, but performance has improved, but if they lost their ace in the hole (OSX), their prices would be forced down and they'd struggle to make a profit.

As it is, OSX is a selling point for Apple hardware that gives it an edge over Dell or HP etc. because the rest of it (with the exception of the slot loading drives) is just interchangable hardware that you can find in any other PC. Take away OSX, and you're operating on gimmicks like the MagSafe, the MacBooks magnetic latch, and the built in iSight. If you go to the Apple website and look at all those reasons you should get a mac, most of them are derived from the OS, NOT the hardware.

gwangung was right about the revenue distribution. Most of it's hardware, so being forced to drop hardware because they're selling software would mean a huge hit in profits and a huge step towards becoming Microsoft Jr. Remember Gateway was making the top of the line monitors awhile back but couldn't sell them at a profit, so they dropped them. I'd rather not see Apple go down this road, and thankfully, i doubt they will.

 

[BenRoethig]

Jobs has stated repeatedly that Apple is a hardware company (vs. Microsoft - a software company).

If Apple starts selling their OS to other companies like Dell, they would get destroyed, especially now that they're on the same chip as Windows.

Why would they get destroyed? Because a magnetic latch and a built in camera can't compete well with the discounts, sales, coupons, and all around low prices of Dell. Charging $150 more for a black macbook would be suicide.

Look at the plummeting costs for laptops these days. Already, the price of notebooks has dropped 18% from last year. Apple's prices have stayed the same, but performance has improved, but if they lost their ace in the hole (OSX), their prices would be forced down and they'd struggle to make a profit.

As it is, OSX is a selling point for Apple hardware that gives it an edge over Dell or HP etc. because the rest of it (with the exception of the slot loading drives) is just interchangable hardware that you can find in any other PC. Take away OSX, and you're operating on gimmicks like the MagSafe, the MacBooks magnetic latch, and the built in iSight. If you go to the Apple website and look at all those reasons you should get a mac, most of them are derived from the OS, NOT the hardware.

gwangung was right about the revenue distribution. Most of it's hardware, so being forced to drop hardware because they're selling software would mean a huge hit in profits and a huge step towards becoming Microsoft Jr. Remember Gateway was making the top of the line monitors awhile back but couldn't sell them at a profit, so they dropped them. I'd rather not see Apple go down this road, and thankfully, i doubt they will.

You are forgetting Apple's ace in the hole: style. You can't get what you're getting from Apple anywhere else. Sure Apple could include, a few extras, like a express card 54 slot on the MBPs so they're actually able to use more than a handful of cards, an SD slot, and Apple not going cheap of the ram, but they are headed in the right direction for them. They are headed in the right direction for them.

That being said, there is a sizable market (aka PC users) who are not interested in what Apple has to offer, but could benefit from their OS and software.

 

[wmmk]

Good points with your post, I totally agree how Steve Jobs has cornered parts of the OS market and how Steve want Mac OS only running on a Mac. The Linux points are pretty true as well but more from a commercial viability stand point rather from the "average" home user needs/wants/ability.

I'm just waiting for WINE for Mac OSX, should be sweet.

yes, it already exists, and it's called Darwine

 

[pink-pony115]

apple really does "think different"