Apple vs. Samsung Lawsuit Over iPhone Design Officially Reopened

[Lihp8270]

They reduced the cost, improved the quality, and figured out how to get it into a phone, i.e. the kind of thing Apple does.

I'm not disputing that Samsung have done a lot of development with the technology. But to suggest the technology was their "innovation" is not correct.

Most of these "lab technologies" come to the giants via small companies, who then sell out, including the patents. Also remember that companies like Samsung have connections to research bodies, and universities and automatically get part ownership of patents originating there too.

Very little these days can be traced back to an individual innovator. While Samsung may not have created it, they may have found an innovative use for the technology. But in phones, that was still Nokia!

Maybe they were the first to use screens curved onto the edges. This would be the innovative feature, but the innovation is the application of the technology, not the AMOLED display.

 

[kdarling]

Here, I'll have a shot at whether or not Samsung innovated something on a smartphone:

• Curved Edge Display - true, derived from their YOUM demo
• Wireless charging - Palm Pre had it, tho not fast charging
• S-Pen - yes, first to include an active pen
• OLED Technology - mixed. Samsung didn't invent but certainly has taken to new levels
• VR - in what way? Google Cardboard is a contender, for instance

 

[I7guy]

Wow, so much dancing around

Here, I'll have a shot at whether or not Samsung innovated something on a smartphone:

• Curved Edge Display - true, derived from their YOUM demo
• Wireless charging - Palm Pre had it, tho not fast charging
• S-Pen - yes, first to include an active pen
• OLED Technology - mixed. Samsung didn't invent but certainly has taken to new levels
• VR - in what way? Google Cardboard is a contender, for instance

Pens are not new and spen is samsungs rendition of a pen. So basically except for curved display these items existed in a prior form. 20% isn't bad.

 

[Lihp8270]

Innovation is all a moot point really.

Surely I'm not alone, in not being bothered about latest technology. And simply want a device, that allows me to use it for its intended purpose in a manner that is efficient and unobtrusive?

Despite Apple's lack of "innovation" these days, they are still the ones that fit that criteria, especially integrated into the whole ecosystem. Until, I can see a productivity benefit for a QHD display, and curved glass. I'd rather have a nice, well made device, that allows me to simply do the tasks I need.

 

[trifid]

Fun facts, Apple didn't invent smartphones, multi-touch, pinch to zoom, icon grids, rectangular shapes or rounded corners. In fact, following the reasoning logic exposed by some here I'm not sure what they innovated if anything

 

[Radon87000]

How is a technology developed by Kodak in the 80s, then used by Nokia in the 90s, a Samsung Innovation?
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How is a technology developed by Kodak in the 80s, then used by Nokia in the 90s, a Samsung Innovation?

Then how is anything innovation? I can find a derivation for almost all products including the iPhone
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Samsung did not invent oled.

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Samsung innovated on OLED and made it the best display on the planet. Credit for the best display on the planet goes to Samsung. Not Kodak or UDI.Similarly credit for inventing one of the best phones on the planet goes to Apple

 

[Lihp8270]

Then how is anything innovation? I can find a derivation for almost all products including the iPhone

Karl Benz didn't invent the cart, nor did he invent the internal combustion engine. But putting an internal combustion engine into a cart, was certainly innovative.

While Samsung did not create AMOLED, nor were they the first to use it. Using it to create a curved edge screen was innovative.

While multi-touch wasn't created by apple, the application of multi-touch to control the UI on the iPhone was an innovative solution.

You don't have to create a new technology to innovate with it. As I said earlier, I am not saying Samsung do not innovate, they do a lot of R&D work, but was merely correcting a clear error.

 

[kdarling]

Pens are not new and spen is samsungs rendition of a pen.

Name a smartphone that came with an active pen before the Note series. I can't think of one off hand.

(Hopefully you understand the difference between an active pen and a dumb stylus stick.)

Fun fact, Apple didn't invent smartphones, multi-touch, pinch to zoom, icon grids, rectangular shapes or rounded corners.

Nor were they the first to use a green phone icon, microphone image for recording, packaging with the device up top, double-tap zoom, orientation sensors, an icon grid, finger friendly UI, or flick scrolling.

But they were smart enough to throw it all together, and add some fun effects and skeuomorphism to attract the newbies back then.

In fact, following the reasoning logic exposed by some here I'm not sure what they innovated if anything

Yes, innovation seems to be a slippery definition around here

And that's okay. Makes for interesting conversation.

 

[I7guy]

Then how is anything innovation? I can find a derivation for almost all products including the iPhone
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That is the exact argument you keep making in different posts.

Samsung innovated on OLED and made it the best display on the planet. Credit for the best display on the planet goes to Samsung. Not Kodak or UDI.Similarly credit for inventing one of the best phones on the planet goes to Apple

Samsung did not invent oled. And according to display-mate the most accurate screen on the planet is the iPhone 7. And I wouldn't even say the iPhone is the best phone in the planet, I would say my preference is the iPhone.
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Name a smartphone that came with an active pen before the Note series. I can't think of one off hand.

(Hopefully you understand the difference between an active pen and a dumb stylus stick.)



Nor were they the first to use a green phone icon, microphone image for recording, packaging with the device up top, double-tap zoom, orientation sensors, an icon grid, finger friendly UI, or flick scrolling.

But they were smart enough to throw it all together, and add some fun effects and skeuomorphism to attract the newbies back then.



Yes, innovation seems to be a slippery definition around here

And that's okay. Makes for interesting conversation.

Pens have been used with computing devices for years and the definition innovation is as slippery as axle grease. I am. It making a distinction between the stylus of 1995 and 2015; obviously some technical advancement in 20 years. Hopefully you understand the point.

 

[kdarling]

Pens have been used with computing devices for years

People have had access to personal computers for decades, but that doesn't mean it's not innovative to put one in your hand

 

[I7guy]

People have had access to personal computers for decades, but that doesn't mean it's not innovative to put one in your hand

Doesn't mean it is either.

 

[Klyster]

So nothing is innovative, that's what I've learnt here.
Patenting is where it's at, patent anything you like and you don't have to worry about being innovative.
Just make sure any legal case is being tried in your area of influence.

 

[Radon87000]

So nothing is innovative, that's what I've learnt here.
Patenting is where it's at, patent anything you like and you don't have to worry about being innovative.
Just make sure any legal case is being tried in your area of influence.

Yes. Nothing in this planet is innovation . The only innovative thing is to work your way around the law in such a manner as to cash in a fat check. I also learnt both Intel and AMD don't invent processors. Global Foundries does

 

[I7guy]

Yep, that's what I asking learned from Macrumors also . Not much innovation going on out there. Innovation isn't needed though when your business can make $50B a quarterly or your screen technology comes from Eastman Kodak. I've also learned YouTube videos are altered to show a particular outcome based on the bias of the video editor. Quite an education here.

 

[Radon87000]

Clearly when the following is going on

1)Near 20% CEO Pay cuts
2)Tanking iPad sales (Will they ever stop sliding)
3)Lowest op margin in 7 years
4)Declining iPhone sales with iPhone 7 sales in particular being disappointing
5)Apple employees complaining about Apple being just a run of the mill boring operations thanks to Timmy being the most boring unimaginative CEO in the history of the company with some migrating to Tesla

Innovation is not the top order of the day. Will a watch and a pair of wireless headphones coupled with oversized battery cases save the day?

 

[I7guy]

- Apple set to reap 1 trillion from iOS ecosystem
- most valuable company in the world
- record breaking quarters (save one) since 2011. Even that one was dinged because the percentage was less.
- one billion idevices
- iPad and Apple Watch are outselling the competition
- Apple reaps 94% of smartphone profits
- stock is up
- billions of cash in the bank

The above thanks to Timmy.

Apple is doomed(TM) and innovation is dead. Right...

 

[Klyster]

What innovations are coming out of Cupertino?

 

[kdarling]

What innovations are coming out of Cupertino?

According to I7guy, apparently they're really innovative at making tons of money. And I'd add, also at not paying taxes anywhere on it.

Heh. Wait a few decades and Apple will have probably almost all the money in the world in their possession. And will still just be stashing it away, without doing anything worthwhile with it.

 

[Lihp8270]

What innovations are coming out of Cupertino?

Apples thing has never really been "innovation". They've never been first to the party.

For a long long time, Apples game is to release refined tech that is reliable and serves a purpose.

And it's a model that works for them, they catch the market share who are fed up with patchy support and overly complex devices. Similarly the likes of Samsung get the market that crave the latest tech and are willing to fiddle and mess to get it working properly.

1 isn't necessarily the better than the other. It's just a different business model.

 

[Klyster]

Apples thing has never really been "innovation". They've never been first to the party.

For a long long time, Apples game is to release refined tech that is reliable and serves a purpose.

And it's a model that works for them, they catch the market share who are fed up with patchy support and overly complex devices. Similarly the likes of Samsung get the market that crave the latest tech and are willing to fiddle and mess to get it working properly.

1 isn't necessarily the better than the other. It's just a different business model.

I'd agree with that but they mess it up sometimes.
There is plenty of stuff Apple release that isn't reliable straight out of the box.
I'm not suggesting they don't innovate. They do, but so do others.

 

[Lihp8270]

I'd agree with that but they mess it up sometimes.
There is plenty of stuff Apple release that isn't reliable straight out of the box.
I'm not suggesting they don't innovate. They do, but so do others.

I'd say most of apples innovation is related to how users interact with tech and interfaces. Rather than the technology.

The Samsung vs Apple argument is one that can get a bit silly and irritating at times.

 

[trifid]

- Apple set to reap 1 trillion from iOS ecosystem
- most valuable company in the world
- record breaking quarters (save one) since 2011. Even that one was dinged because the percentage was less.
- one billion idevices
- iPad and Apple Watch are outselling the competition
- Apple reaps 94% of smartphone profits
- stock is up
- billions of cash in the bank

The above thanks to Timmy.

Apple is doomed(TM) and innovation is dead. Right...

Numbers and money doesn't necessarily mean greatness, example: Microsoft. Filthy rich doesn't necessarily mean you make insanely great products and continue innovating. And what drove Steve Jobs wasn't just money and numbers, unlike Tim Cook. Hence we see the lack of breakthrough and progress from Apple in the past few years.

 

[I7guy]

Numbers and money doesn't necessarily mean greatness, example: Microsoft. Filthy rich doesn't necessarily mean you make insanely great products and continue innovating. And what drove Steve Jobs wasn't just money and numbers, unlike Tim Cook. Hence we see the lack of breakthrough and progress from Apple in the past few years.

I do not believe numbers drive Tim. Apples iphone 6 was the straw that sent the company's worth into the stratosphere. The numbers come from releasing products that people want to purchase and actually plunk down the cash to buy them. I didn't know Steve personally and don't know Tim personally, so I can't really say anything about their psyche.

IMO, Tim is in a tough spot for the ipad product line, that is Steve's legacy. But on the whole I think apple is doing fine.
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According to I7guy, apparently they're really innovative at making tons of money. And I'd add, also at not paying taxes anywhere on it.

Heh. Wait a few decades and Apple will have probably almost all the money in the world in their possession. And will still just be stashing it away, without doing anything worthwhile with it.

I wish I could innovate my bank account to the scale that apple did. But I can't fault them for not paying taxes legally. Cash in the bank is better than no cash in the bank.

What thread is this again? Oh yeah, the "apple will rake samsung over the coals" thread

 

[trifid]

I do not believe numbers drive Tim. Apples iphone 6 was the straw that sent the company's worth into the stratosphere. The numbers come from releasing products that people want to purchase and actually plunk down the cash to buy them. I didn't know Steve personally and don't know Tim personally, so I can't really say anything about their psyche.

Coincidentally I was watching a video about Steve when he was building up NeXT after his exile from Apple, I found this pretty telling:

“One of the things that made Apple great, was that in the early days it was built from the heart […] one of my largest wishes is that we build NeXT from the heart, and that people that are thinking of coming to work for us or buy our products feel that […] that we are doing this because we have a passion about it […] not because we wanna make a buck”

 

[Radon87000]

What innovations are coming out of Cupertino?

Nothing. Even the employees of Apple are saying that ever since Steve died Apple has become just another operations company