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Apple vs. Wireless Carriers?

pounce said:
like most folks with an ipod, i don't want the music on my phone and that kind of thing doesn't interest me. while i don't want apple to lose out on this kind of thing, i'm not convinced it is where the digital music delivery is really going to be happening on any significant level.
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Yeah, I can't see much value in being able to download directly to my phone. Would I be interested in a cell phone equipped with iTunes? Probably--I could see the value in one device instead of two, whether built by apple or licensed. But I'm happy to download music at home at night--not while sitting at a cafe.

So, in short, I don't see much worry for Apple here. Especially since the cell cos. will undoubtedly cripple every phone feature anyway.
 
MeshNetworks

What's to keep Motorola from using it's MeshNetworks initiative to create the nessecary connections to Apple's iTunes web service and others? This technology can work along with tradition phone technology making Wireless service providers irrelevant and unnecessary to access Apple's technology. So, let them do what they want; technology can provide away around them.
 
Why is it that carriers are going to be stupid this way. I, and most people, will never buy a song that I can only have on my phone, nor wait the long ass time for it get downloaded just to say on my phone. If anything, I want it on my central hub for my music, and that is the computers in this day in age. From there, music can be put onto or into anything the person wants. So f*ck the carriers, I'm stickink with my iPod and iTunes. I already have a good phone. I don't need it to play only 20 songs since that is all it can carry when my iPod can hold up to 10,000, and I can hook into my Mac and my Car.

RIAA and Cell phone carriers are Dumbasses! They would replace lawyers at the top of the hate list, but they employ lawyers to do their dirty work, so lawyers get to stay at the top of the list for now.

Sorry for the rant.
 
I honestly cant see any real benefit in the downloading of actual DRM'ed musical content for a wireless phone whether it is from iTMS of The Verizon Wireless Ripoff Cafe'.

I think the nice feature of iTunes on a phone would be the ability to add some songs to listen to while at the gym. I have to have my phone with me all the time for emergencies at work(IT related). Therefore it would be nice to have a playlist or two on memory card inside my phone, therefore making it so I only need to carry one device. Not that carrying my iPod shuffle weighs that much more but I think you know what I mean.
 
I understand why the greedy cell carriers don't like the iTunes business model, since they want a big ol' slice of that revenue pie for themelves. Who wouldn't? But if the current cost of ringtones is any barometer, they will likely price themselves out of any slice at all in the long run.
Let's assume there are actually plenty of folks (I don't know any of 'em personally) who want music on their cell phone. Of that group, how many will be willing to pay upwards of even $1.00 for a song that probably won't also play on an iPod or computer and can't be burned to disk (yes I am making broad, sweeping and possibly baseless generalizations here - sue me :rolleyes:), when they can pay less for a song from iTunes or even Napster?
The carriers will stave off a Motorola Tunes phone long enough to take their shot, and then they will realize that no one wants to pay $2.99 for a song to play on a cell phone.
Then, Apple and Motorola will have an opening for their iTunes phone, and it'll be over before Verizon knows what hit them.
 
These greedy bastards make me sick.
They will learn their lesson the hard way, I hope. Download insanely priced, crazy drm'ed, crap quality songs to a cellphone, what a joke.
 
The way I see it. . .

If the wireless carriers are keeping their customers from using iTunes enabled phones, that just reeks of anti-trust and unfair competition. Wireless carriers are nothing more than a service provider, not unlike home internet providers. What if, say, SBC suddenly forbid access to iTMS because they were offering their own online music store. NO WAY!!

I want an Apple branded (or at the very least an iTunes enabled) phone already. There is so much potential for another consumer-level device from Apple in this field. But that's OT, so I won't get into it.

Arg.
 
Already have this in Europe

We already have these services in Europe.

In Germany for instance, Vodafone charge about 2 Euro per download. ie. Twice the price of iTunes. They've 500,000 songs online. You can burn it to CD 3 times. It's in 128kbit AAC format too but with yet another incompatible DRM wrapper. Only available on 3G networks though, not the old GPRS networks.

It's being advertised on the TV here in the UK too although I couldn't tell if it was available yet in the UK. I'm not on 3G so can't try it and in any case my main mobile is on the Orange network. Only my second mobile is on Vodafone.

The problem would be that if the money is going to Apple with their iTunes store, then the mobile operators wouldn't get their cut.

The deliberate restrictions you get in the US like Verizon switching off Bluetooth and the mad costs of SMS in the USA between networks just wouldn't wash with us here.
 
i have a crappy old nokia 2210 and it does everything i want it to do. it makes calls. it sounds like a telephone when it rings. it remembers the last few numbers i dialled. you get it? telephone-like functionality. i dont give a about a changable ringtone. i usually feel it vibrate and answer it before the ring sound even happens. on the other pocket, i have an ipod. it does what its supposed to do too. plays music. you know: music-player-like functionality. my point is WILL YOU PEOPLE STOP TRYING TO MUSH ALL MY GADGETS INTO ONE GADGET THAT WORKS HALF AS WELL AND COSTS TWICE AS MUCH!!




sorry ive been needing to say that for a while now.
 
I don't see it happening

Let's pretend that you could get any song you wanted onto your cell phone. For $0.99.

One problem: how do you get it off? Only a CD? Onto your other digital players? Onto your computer? The article itself says the wireless companies know this:

<blockquote>The two sides also have very different perspectives on how digital music stores should work. Verizon, Sprint, and Cingular are expected to charge about $2 for wireless downloads when they introduce their services, or twice the 99 cents per song on iTunes. They figure they can charge a premium for the convenience of getting songs anytime, even though customers most likely won't be able to listen to those songs anywhere but on their phones, at least initially. One knowledgeable source close to Apple says the operators are simply being unrealistic if they expect customers to pay $2 or $3 for a song, especially with restrictions. "If you can get something for a buck, why would you buy it for $3?" says the source. "Do they think people are that dumb?"</blockquote>

Now, if I could carry around my cell phone and order a song to play there for $0.99, and when I get home all of those songs I purchased auto-downloaded to my computer - <em>then</em> I'd be interested. My wife and I have talked about how cool it would be to have a button on your radio marked "bookmark". When you hear a song you want to buy, you can "bookmark" it, so when you get home your computer says "Oh, here's those songs you wanted to buy, the albums they came from, who sings them, and other versions. Which ones do you want, and will that be Paypal or Credit Card?"

The wireless companies have a good start, but except for a few people with poor impulse control and have to have the song RIGHT NOW, it's not going to do nearly as well as the iPod/iTunes combination.

I'm personally waiting for the day the major carriers get competition either from WiMax systems (just use Vonage or Skype on your WiMax portable phone), or one of them wakes up and figures out they can get more customers by letting the customers have choice in their phone technology, not dictatorships. (Which is why the US mobile phone system is pretty much a whole generation behind Japan and Europe.)
 
chaos86 said:
WILL YOU PEOPLE STOP TRYING TO MUSH ALL MY GADGETS INTO ONE GADGET THAT WORKS HALF AS WELL AND COSTS TWICE AS MUCH!!
Click to expand...

I hear you and most macrumors users hear you ,but for every one of us there are 100,000 regular Joe's out there who want one device. They don't care about quality, remember most of them buy Dell PCs.

These are the people who don't mind a .3 megapixel picture taken from a camera phone. For them it is good enough. Low bitrate WMA files will be good enough too.

Your cellphone is going to be come your driver's license, debit card, credit card, passport, voice and data communications device, camera, game device, MP3 player and mobile video player.

It's going to happen. As I said before, one of these carriers is going to be the next M$
 
Just the phone Ma'am

All I want is a GOOD cellphone that will sync my contacts and calendar with Mac. The key word here is GOOD. I have yet to find a phone that I actually like. I do not want nor do I need goofy ring tones and I certainly wouldn't pay $$ for them. I have an iPod so I have little interest in putting music on my phone.

My contract is up in June with my current carrier and I'm willing to switch to which ever carrier accepts an Apple designed phone.

I just want a phone with Apple's ease of use.
 
I dont blame the carriers for wanting a bigger piece of the pie. If the songs downloaded from iTunes could be used as a ring tone, then the carriers are gonna get the short end of the stick. The ring tone business is going to be a billion dollar market, and I dont blame them for not wanting to miss out.
 
JohnHummel said:
Let's pretend that you could get any song you wanted onto your cell phone. For $0.99.

One problem: how do you get it off?
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Almost every phone in Europe comes with Bluetooth now since the laws were changed to ban driving and using a phone at the same time and direct cable kits are really cheap too. You can get them from most market stalls for pennies. That's how we do it here. Quite a few 3G phones also have SD cards.

I have to say though, Bluetooth takes ages to transfer a song. It'd be ok for the occasional song but otherwise a few albums worth is unbearable.


JohnHummel said:
Now, if I could carry around my cell phone and order a song to play there for $0.99, and when I get home all of those songs I purchased auto-downloaded to my computer - <em>then</em> I'd be interested. My wife and I have talked about how cool it would be to have a button on your radio marked "bookmark". When you hear a song you want to buy, you can "bookmark" it, so when you get home your computer says "Oh, here's those songs you wanted to buy, the albums they came from, who sings them, and other versions. Which ones do you want, and will that be Paypal or Credit Card?"
Click to expand...

I don't think it's far off at all. There's a service in the UK called 'Shazam'. You dial 2580 on your phone and hold it up to the music you're listening to. It thinks for a few seconds and then sends you an SMS with the title of the song. I don't think it'd take that much of a leap for it to send you the song as an MMS instead and charge your phone bill.

http://www.shazam.com/

Also, trials of Digital Radios with a button on them to 'purchase this song' are currently running. You just hit the button and it sends your computer an mp3, aac or wma.


JohnHummel said:
I'm personally waiting for the day the major carriers get competition either from WiMax systems (just use Vonage or Skype on your WiMax portable phone), or one of them wakes up and figures out they can get more customers by letting the customers have choice in their phone technology, not dictatorships. (Which is why the US mobile phone system is pretty much a whole generation behind Japan and Europe.)
Click to expand...

You're not wrong, although WiFi based phones are going to be fun still. I was working out what impact Skype users would have on a public hotspot I'm involved with a few days ago. It's not pretty for the little guys.
 
FairPlay is an Issue.

A local guy from Subpop records here in Seattle said the carriers are not willing to first, not make a lot of money themselves instead of locking in low prices where Apple makes the most, second feel Apple could control online music worldwide, and third Apple would require one to license FairPlay and the carriers won't have that. The music industry, not so much Subpop, as the larger European companies regret giving Jobs (an American) like Bill Gates a ton of power in this market. First OS with Windows then online music with Apple. They are looking for ways to slow iTunes dominance.
 
rikers_mailbox said:
My head a splode.

How can the carriers get away with this?! They are service providers! They have no right to control the content.
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Fact is, they underwrite the cost of the cell phones with their service agreements. If they don't want to carry a phone that conflicts with their "business model", it is their choice. Ultimately, they will come to the realization that there is no revenue for them in music downloads, at least not at the price points they plan. Once that occurs, you'll see phones that can carry music from your computer, and that can purchase songs from iTunes. Ultimately, the best the carriers will get is billing for the airtime charge for the dl time.
 
Yes the market of "mobile phone owners" is huge... but then again so is Apple's market with iTMS: "computer owners" (iPod is not required).

And the market of "mobile phone owners who want music on their phone and are willing to settle for slow downloads and insanely awkward searching and then pay three times as much for music that can't even be burned to CD or played on their computer or their iPod" is probably a bit smaller number :D

Competition is good, but this sounds like an even SMALLER niche than subscriptions.

Now, someday a device will be able to do "all things" WELL. It can be an excellent phone AND an excellent music player AND an excellent way to buy music. I'm sure Apple will be a part of that when it happens, and I don't blame the carriers for trying for a share of that income. But that day is a long way off.

Blocking people from buying music on their computer and using the phone as a player is pretty rotten--that function is not using the carriers' network, so it should be between the phone makers and the music stores. Forcing people to use the carriers' networks--making a WORSE user experience--just as an excuse to charge MORE...? No thank you. Reminds me of carriers forcing Bluetooth phones to have Bluetooth functions disabled.

That's the kind of thinking that will STOP phones from ever becoming truly excellent all-in-one devices.

And it's the kind of thinking that keeps me from owning a mobile phone. I could sure use one--but the industry doesn't yet offer an experience worth what they'd charge me.
 
My thoughts exactly

pounce said:
like most folks with an ipod, i don't want the music on my phone and that kind of thing doesn't interest me. while i don't want apple to lose out on this kind of thing, i'm not convinced it is where the digital music delivery is really going to be happening on any significant level.
Click to expand...

I have zero interest in listening to music on my phone.

I am imagining what's keeping the major carriers from going with Apple is they want to use a subscription service. Because otherwise, what? You're going to store tunes you bought from your phone *on* your phone? Or is it going to be flash based memory resident in the phone? Removeable? A subscription service seems more likely. It's easier for the big companies to see "your phone bill will be charged for your subscription....have fun.....don't steal music." They get your money and they are done with you till next month. Can you imagine the strain on the wireless network with people making that many transactions and downloads for songs?

I can't make a phone call cause you have to have the latest britney spears song? No thanks.
 
powermac666 said:
... Ultimately, the best the carriers will get is billing for the airtime charge for the dl time.
Click to expand...
If you copy songs directly from your Mac/PC to the phone, there won't be ANY airtime charges for anything though. Otherwise, I'm sure, those carriers would be much cooler with the whole thing...
 
It's not just the wireless providers that want to get > $1 per song: the idea has record industry execs drooling, as well. They also see it in their best interest to break Apple's dominance and try to squeeze more money out of their back catalogs. I seem to recall reading a quote from an anonymous record exec to that effect posted on AppleInsider a couple of weeks ago, but I can't track it down.
 
svenr said:
If you copy songs directly from your Mac/PC to the phone, there won't be ANY airtime charges for anything though. Otherwise, I'm sure, those carriers would be much cooler with the whole thing...
Click to expand...

Yes, but if it is a true iTunes-enabled phone, you'd be able cell minutes to dl songs right to the phone and sync later with your computer (or iPod?). Hence, a potential, albeit small, revenue source for the carriers to fight over.
 
sigamy said:
Your cellphone is going to be come your driver's license, debit card, credit card, passport, voice and data communications device, camera, game device, MP3 player and mobile video player.
Click to expand...

I hope not. Do you know how many times I've misplaced my cell phone? Talk about identity theft. We'd have to walk around with the things permanently tethered to us!

I, myself, have a 40GB iPod photo and a 5 year old Samsung SCH-8500. My iPod plays any one of my 9000+ songs whenever I want it to. I'm emotionally attached to it because I'm emotionally attached to the songs in it. It's a device to escape, if even in 4 minute increments, all the "noise" around us.

On the other hand, my phone rings, I answer it, I hang up. blech. I leave my cell phone behind because I hate talking on the phone, I hate telephone solicitors, and I hate how rude and impolite people on cellphones can be. It's a tool that keeps you connected and I don't like to be connected all the time.

I think you know where my priorities are.
 
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