Apple vs. Wireless Carriers?

[Frobozz]

My god, who cares?

Who ARE the people who want to listen to music on their cell phones? I just don't get it. You can hold like 50 songs, you suck up your battery life, and you have to plug in headphones into your phone. I don't have a land line. I don't want to suck up my cellphone battery with music playing.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I think it's a terrible idea. I'm sure some people will play with it for novelty or for a ringer-- but an iPod killer it's not. People carry a communication device and a music device and there's nothing wrong with that! *gasp*

 

[Bubbasteve]

Here is my complaint about the idea of this music phone...well at least on my i730, I get less than a day and a half of battery life (and that's not counting talk time)... I have about 3-5 hours of talk time...unless they make a great battery for cell phones, I don't see a whole lot of people utilizing their cell phones as iPods. The reason why I'm holding out on switching from Nextel to Cingular is because I am curious if I can send some already downloaded songs from my computer to my ITMS phone (or iPhone what ever) and use them as ringtones instead of buying them... or will this iTunes phone simply download music from the ITMS and then you can transfer it to your computer via bluetooth....if anyone knows the answer to this will you please tell me!

 

[tennisbum]

the concept is cool, no doubt. but in reality, just not practical. most mobile phones don't have stereo headphone output. you listen to the songs through crappy speakers. now, if you can use it as ringtone, maybe there's something worth looking into. but wireless carriers want to charge you a whole lot more for ringtones. so i don't think they'll allow downloaded songs to be used as ringtone. (so they can have multiple income streams from the same song.) and what about transfering the music to other devices? so many complications there........

 

[tennisbum]

Who ARE the people who want to listen to music on their cell phones? I just don't get it. You can hold like 50 songs, you suck up your battery life, and you have to plug in headphones into your phone. I don't have a land line. I don't want to suck up my cellphone battery with music playing.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I think it's a terrible idea. I'm sure some people will play with it for novelty or for a ringer-- but an iPod killer it's not. People carry a communication device and a music device and there's nothing wrong with that! *gasp*

well, some corporate executives have to justify the cost of their salary for something, right.... ;-)

 

[cubist]

Fact is, they underwrite the cost of the cell phones with their service agreements. If they don't want to carry a phone that conflicts with their "business model", it is their choice. ...

I'm sick to death of hearing that MYTH. It is a MYTH - a LIE - that American consumers are so willing to save a few bucks on their phone that they are willing to be locked to a single carrier for two years or more. The fact is, ALL the American cell carriers lock their customers in simply because they can get away with it. They're a bunch of greedy jerks.

Just try to find a place to buy unlocked phones and cell service with no commitments in the US. It's not possible. The US consumer is being ripped off and sold lousy service at premium prices.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

no. it looks like it's wireless carries not wanting to be cut out of the $$.

arn

And without regulation of the industry - the consumer pays through the nose....

Essentials like energy, water, and communications need regulation to protect the consumer.

 

[hulugu]

Someday the iSlate, but not today.

The iPod is no longer so revolutionary. It needs to be a combination of at least two of the following for it to stay on top in my opinion: iPod, Phone, Gaming Device, PDA, Camera, etc. Of course I would love to see all of the things combined into one unit (my pockets would be a lot lighter).

It would be wonderful if your phone, PDA, PSP, iPod and (shudder!) camera were intigrated into one single exceptionally well-designed device, something akin to a Powerbook you could fit in the palm of your hand, but this will be a long time in coming. The problem is simply interfaces, what works for a PDA (stylus, keyboard) is too complex for just simply dialing a phone number, while the system for fast-scrolling through a hundred albums or so doesn't really work with just a 10-key pad. The problem is really about how one works with these devices, and while you can probably make speech fix several of these problems (e.g. iPod play all Dylan tracks you still have to create a really good interface.

At the same time, the technology hasn't really gotten there, the phone drops calls, the battery doesn't last nearly long enough, the camera takes blurry pictures (and no flash or zoom), the PDA can't hold enough information (your music, photos, vCards, games all take up a lot of space), and you don't have a really good way of shuffling this information around (solvable by 3G, BT, WiMax?, Firewire 800). Now, the PSP is maybe the first good step, but it has one really terrible achillies heel: lots of its abilities are proprietary.

The next evolution, maybe the iSlate?, will have to be more like a laptop than a cell phone, more open to new things, more flexible than your phone or your iPod.

I think and I daresay hope that this little venture by the cell phone companies fails, people should be able to move their data as they wish without running into roadblocks or tollbooths. I hope everyone keeps buying iTMS songs and finds a way around the carriers.

And by the way, ringtones are easily the biggest waste of money since Sea Monkeys.

 

[hulugu]

They may as well charge you a per-minute rate to use the Calculator function of your phone.

Don't give them any ideas! That's a real revenue stream you're not paying them for; they're losing money because of your freeloading.

 

[aegisdesign]

Who ARE the people who want to listen to music on their cell phones? I just don't get it. You can hold like 50 songs, you suck up your battery life, and you have to plug in headphones into your phone. I don't have a land line. I don't want to suck up my cellphone battery with music playing.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I think it's a terrible idea. I'm sure some people will play with it for novelty or for a ringer-- but an iPod killer it's not. People carry a communication device and a music device and there's nothing wrong with that! *gasp*

Er, me.

I don't really want to carry around an iPod and a phone when I'm out on my bike and a hard disk based player would just get trashed eventually. My phone takes up to 2MB cards in it's side and plays OGG, MP3 and AAC just as well as an iPod does. Sure it's got a crappy interface but once I press play, I tend not to touch the thing again for a few hours. Furthermore, it has bluetooth headphone capability - I don't use it myself yet as the bluetooth headphones are a little pricey and heavy. The battery lasts about 4 hours of music play - longer than I need generally.

It also has ssh, html email and a web browser, so I can support my business even out in the hills without having to also take a PDA. The phone cuts off the music when a call comes in so I can be out yet still not miss a call - that may or may not be an advantage to you. ;-)

It's a compromise, sure, but it's one small-ish Sony Ericsson p910i or a phone, a PDA and an iPod. No contest, the p910 wins for me.

Now if only iTunes supported syncing playlists to memory cards I'd be extremely happy as otherwise the only downside is transferring songs manually to the cards.

Most new phones in the UK now are coming with card slots for storing songs on. The USA might still be at the arguing stage, but over here it's a reality already.

 

[zelmo]

I'm not really interested in listening to music on my phone. What I AM interested in, is a phone with a clean, intuitive interface like Apple can design. When I think of Apple getting involved in designing a cellular product, having iTunes download capability is way below my radar, and having the ability to load up a hdd or removeable card with a few hours of music is only slightly more enticing than a cheesy camera phone.

The cell carriers see dollar signs dancing in their eyes, they just fail to see the two-foot thick glass wall blocking them from ever cashing in.

 

[jwhitnah]

Over Hyped

no. it looks like it's wireless carries not wanting to be cut out of the $$.

arn

Ironically, they need Apple to make this work. iPods/iTMS is the dominant player. Right now if I buy from Apple throgh iTMS there is no middle man. Even with that, there is barely any profit. If phone companies try to take a share, there will be super slim profit. Moreover, if each compay sets up there own service, it will be confusing and never really catch on (like non-iTMS'). Also, what are these phones going to hold? They can't be more than a small flash player. It all seems a little half-baked any not very appealing to me. I could be wrong.

 

[rlreif]

I'm sick to death of hearing that MYTH. It is a MYTH - a LIE - that American consumers are so willing to save a few bucks on their phone that they are willing to be locked to a single carrier for two years or more. The fact is, ALL the American cell carriers lock their customers in simply because they can get away with it. They're a bunch of greedy jerks.

Just try to find a place to buy unlocked phones and cell service with no commitments in the US. It's not possible. The US consumer is being ripped off and sold lousy service at premium prices.

what are you high??
type "unlocked gsm phones" into google and see what you find.
there are thousands of places that sell unlocked versions of every phone. yes they cost more. hence the subsidy.... Americans are so stupid that they will "save a few bucks by being locked in... and having all the features that makes that phone so good turned off"

i dont feel sorry for you or anybody... if you are dumb enouggh to get your phone directly from your wireless carrier then you are locked in to them, and locked out of the cool features.

 

[macnulty]

i have a crappy old nokia 2210 and it does everything i want it to do. it makes calls. it sounds like a telephone when it rings. it remembers the last few numbers i dialled. you get it? telephone-like functionality. i dont give a about a changable ringtone. i usually feel it vibrate and answer it before the ring sound even happens. on the other pocket, i have an ipod. it does what its supposed to do too. plays music. you know: music-player-like functionality. my point is WILL YOU PEOPLE STOP TRYING TO MUSH ALL MY GADGETS INTO ONE GADGET THAT WORKS HALF AS WELL AND COSTS TWICE AS MUCH!!




sorry ive been needing to say that for a while now.

swish, and you saved me from extra typing, though I have an motorola

 

[macnulty]

Er, me.

I don't really want to carry around an iPod and a phone when I'm out on my bike and a hard disk based player would just get trashed eventually. My phone takes up to 2MB cards in it's side and plays OGG, MP3 and AAC just as well as an iPod does. Sure it's got a crappy interface but once I press play, I tend not to touch the thing again for a few hours. Furthermore, it has bluetooth headphone capability - I don't use it myself yet as the bluetooth headphones are a little pricey and heavy. The battery lasts about 4 hours of music play - longer than I need generally.

It also has ssh, html email and a web browser, so I can support my business even out in the hills without having to also take a PDA. The phone cuts off the music when a call comes in so I can be out yet still not miss a call - that may or may not be an advantage to you. ;-)

A difference in taste, I do carry an iPod and my phone while cycling. One on my left one on my right, for balance you. I don't want my music cutting out on a call, especially when I can just look at the banner and slip it back into my pocket. As far as supporting my business, sorry not while I'm cruising the byways and highways of Pennsylvania jamming to some SRV

 

[angelneo]

I have been using my mobile as a mp3 player for quite some time. But it is always a hassle to look for new mp3 and transfer it to my phone through active sync (I am using a windows mobile OS phone....). I would be really happy if I can make it much more easier (aka iTunes). It's time the mobile phone makers break away from the service provider...

 

[bellis1]

Really?

what are you high??
type "unlocked gsm phones" into google and see what you find.
there are thousands of places that sell unlocked versions of every phone. yes they cost more. hence the subsidy.... Americans are so stupid that they will "save a few bucks by being locked in... and having all the features that makes that phone so good turned off"

i dont feel sorry for you or anybody... if you are dumb enouggh to get your phone directly from your wireless carrier then you are locked in to them, and locked out of the cool features.

Do people really still buy locked phones. I thought that went out with Sprint. No, seriously. Actually a flexible carrier like T-Mobile will actually give you the codes to unlock your phone if you are a reliable customer. Every american (I am one) should get with the program and support GSM networks and the related phones. If your not getting flexibility your supporting inflexibility. And if you pay $1.99 for a ringtone and think your going to get a song for less than .99 then you are part of the problem not the solution. Cut your ties and move on and don't give these mediocre companies the money they don't deserve. BTW, when is high speed mobile connections coming to T-mobile? They are joking if they think I am going to pay for hotspots let alone music. If only I lived elsewhere, like the frickn cold UK or maybe avian influenza, sars, dengue plagued southeast asia. The price we pay...

 

[Frobozz]

Er, me.

I don't really want to carry around an iPod and a phone when I'm out on my bike and a hard disk based player would just get trashed eventually. My phone takes up to 2MB cards in it's side and plays OGG, MP3 and AAC just as well as an iPod does. Sure it's got a crappy interface but once I press play, I tend not to touch the thing again for a few hours. Furthermore, it has bluetooth headphone capability - I don't use it myself yet as the bluetooth headphones are a little pricey and heavy. The battery lasts about 4 hours of music play - longer than I need generally.

It also has ssh, html email and a web browser, so I can support my business even out in the hills without having to also take a PDA. The phone cuts off the music when a call comes in so I can be out yet still not miss a call - that may or may not be an advantage to you. ;-)

It's a compromise, sure, but it's one small-ish Sony Ericsson p910i or a phone, a PDA and an iPod. No contest, the p910 wins for me.

Now if only iTunes supported syncing playlists to memory cards I'd be extremely happy as otherwise the only downside is transferring songs manually to the cards.

Most new phones in the UK now are coming with card slots for storing songs on. The USA might still be at the arguing stage, but over here it's a reality already.

I see your point. But let me save you a lot of frustration. Get an iPod Shuffle and be done with it.

 

[Westside guy]

I know most everyone believes the wireless providers are making money hand over fist; but frankly I suspect their margins have been dropping fast for quite a while - and that's the problem. Cellular airtime is becoming a commodity, and it's very hard to make lots of money selling a commodity. The only way to really make money is by providing high margin add-on services. It's why Dell pushes all those add-ons to their cheap bargain-basement computers. It's why car dealers try to sell you the extended warrantys.

The wireless providers want the phones to be the commodity product rather than the wireless service, so that they themselves can provide the added-value components. Unfortunately for them that model makes little sense. There's no getting away from the fact that it really doesn't matter whose airtime you have, but it does matter whose phone you have. They can try to bully this all they want; but all that needs to happen - and it will happen - is for T-Mobile (or someone else seeking the competitive edge) to start selling the "cool phones". People will be stampeding away from the other guys, and their house of cards will tumble. It might take six months, it might take a year; but it will happen.

 

[Balin64]

Hmmm...

I don't actually think that this will affect Apple. If this is implemented as other wireless add-ons... well. I would like to see the wireless companies work as a whole to make this happen.

By the way: I am actually getting pretty damn tired of my cell phone... or maybe I just need to get a new phone number; I don't like so many people calling me at their whim. I'm such a misanthrope...

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Do people really still buy locked phones. I thought that went out with Sprint. No, seriously. Actually a flexible carrier like T-Mobile will actually give you the codes to unlock your phone if you are a reliable customer. Every american (I am one) should get with the program and support GSM networks and the related phones. If your not getting flexibility your supporting inflexibility. And if you pay $1.99 for a ringtone and think your going to get a song for less than .99 then you are part of the problem not the solution. Cut your ties and move on and don't give these mediocre companies the money they don't deserve. BTW, when is high speed mobile connections coming to T-mobile? They are joking if they think I am going to pay for hotspots let alone music. If only I lived elsewhere, like the frickn cold UK or maybe avian influenza, sars, dengue plagued southeast asia. The price we pay...

Would love to. I am in the market and was looking at Sprint (who I had at one time), Cingluar, and T-Mobile. The problem I had with T-Mobile was the size of their network. Too limited. So I am left with the other two. Trying decide between the two now. Thinking doing the Treo 600.

 

[toaster_oven]

Ironically, they need Apple to make this work. iPods/iTMS is the dominant player. Right now if I buy from Apple throgh iTMS there is no middle man. Even with that, there is barely any profit. If phone companies try to take a share, there will be super slim profit. Moreover, if each compay sets up there own service, it will be confusing and never really catch on (like non-iTMS'). Also, what are these phones going to hold? They can't be more than a small flash player. It all seems a little half-baked any not very appealing to me. I could be wrong.

i totally agree- "half-baked" was the term I was thinking of. i personally don't want to listen to music on my mobile (although some people do, aparently)... they aren't going to make much money off this.

-TO

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

One thought on the "all-in-one" solution is that battery life is not great for cell phones at this point.

 

[uberman42]

blech!

I don't care how the carriers can hype it, but music downloads via cellphone carriers is still two or more years away from being robust enough to give the consumer a good experience.

i would like a phone to be able to connect to my powerbook via firewire and manage the phone that way. I don't need to wait 2.5 hours to download my copy of Frampton Comes Alive! while my phone exhausted its batteries trying to download the darn.

 

[Philsy]

This thread shows the difference between the US and Europe. Americans still seem very anti-mobile and don't want phones that do everything.

In the UK, for instance, there are more mobiles than people and it's become a part of everyday life that we've come to accept is very useful. Adding additional functionality to phones has to a good thing, even if you don't want to use all the options. Camera phones are very handy - you can take pictures when you don't have a camera, and immediately email or MMS them to people. Great!

The whole point of music downloads is that it would appeal to 12-18 year olds who don't have credit cards and so could buy songs using their phone credit. These kids don't worry about having hundreds of songs - they'll delete the old ones when they get bored with them. Neither are they bothered about transferring songs to a computer, although that would be simple using Bluetooth.

It's also important to differentiate between song downloads (which would be of iTunes quality) and ringtones, which are short and reduced quality.

So, whether you like it or not, this is going to happen. Sure, it's not going to appeal so much to us grown-ups, but we're not the largest market for phones and music.

 

[wnurse]

and sell the phone (GSM version that is) without carrier subsidies in electronics stores (as Sony will do with their Walkman phone) ... all I can say is that carriers are one greedy bunch are they not satisfied with the HEFTY data charges incurred with downloads of songs 3-6 Mb each, they even want a cut of someone else's business... let them start their own business but don't exclude others .... can someone say:

A N T I T R U S T !!!​

1. Have you ever bought a cell phone at full price?
2. Can you imagine the number of people willing to pay full price for a cell phone? The answer. extremly insignificant number of people.
3. It's not antitrust. Just because they reject the itunes phone and want to develop their own services is not antitrust. If it was, ipod itself would indicate apple had antitrust issues. The ipod only supports one DRM and one online music store (itunes). Can't have your cake and eat it too.