Apple Walks Back Decision to Disable Home Screen Web Apps in the EU

[makitango]

Because everything Apple does is intensely covered and scrutinized, while Microsoft and Google can make changes in relative silence. We'll only find out after the EU completes their investigations which companies have complied with the rules (which is, as previously stated, an insane way to do regulation).

That's just very low-level propaganda. Particularly Google and Microsoft have been sued and fined quite a few times. The reason why it is the most loud around Apple is because Apple is the most uncompliant player, and also the loudest to defy and play cheap with the law, and also the only one crying in public like a little baby and trying to weaponize customers by intentionally sabotaging their devices with artificial limitations.
That's even lower than Epic who just gambled with the App Store. Apple is gambling with every shareholder's money right now. They are completely out of their mind.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I wonder why Apple doesn't try some of this lockdown on macOS?

 

[makitango]

I specifically said relevant tech companies.

Relevant to you, you mean?

 

[Populus]

This is good news but after trying Progressive WebApps on Home Screen, I’ve realized that only MacRumors offers the capability of making it work like an app. For most websites it just adds a shortcut to open the webpage in Safari.

Anyways, iOS 17.4 is looking good, hopefully it will be good at battery management and I’ll be able to finally jump into iOS 17. Otherwise I’ll keep waiting for more stable and efficient builds.

Now that third party browsers will come with their own engine, being able to update them, I really hope Apple provides Safari updates through the App Store, not forcing you to update the whole device to get the latest WebKit security patches. Hopefully, a feature for iOS 18.

 

[makitango]

This is good news but after trying Progressive WebApps on Home Screen, I’ve realized that only MacRumors offers the capability of making it work like an app. For most websites it just adds a shortcut to open the webpage in Safari.

Most websites don't offer a web app version, so it will default back to a bookmark.

Now that third party browsers will come with their own engine, being able to update them, I really hope Apple provides Safari updates through the App Store, not forcing you to update the whole device to get the latest WebKit security patches. Hopefully, a feature for iOS 18.

Hopefully. It feels so stupid to update a whole OS just to get security updates for one app.

 

[JLL]

Some good news!

Thank you to the EU for forcing Apple down some roads it should already be taking ... even if they don't want to.

Forcing Apple to maintain status quo?

Apple thought that EU forced them not to allow WebKit only PWAs. It now seems they didn’t.

 

[JLL]

I wonder if Apple will have to permit other underlying webengines to work with this too per the EU DMA, not just their own?

That’s what Apple initially thought, and since that would require major work to enable, Apple (initially?) dropped support for PWAs.

It’s probably not a trivial task.

 

[randomthoughts]

This is all very reminiscent of the 1990s with Microsoft bundling and integrating Internet Explorer into Windows, the limitations of other browsers had on Windows, and the cat and mouse of Microsoft with regulators on walking back anticompetitive practices.

 

[makitango]

Apple thought that EU forced them not to allow WebKit only PWAs. It now seems they didn’t.

Said, not thought.

 

[AlastorKatriona]

I’m not really familiar with the DMA details, but it seems like it shouldn’t be able to force a company to use significant resources to build out something that benefits only their competitors

Frankly you just described the DMA perfectly in one sentence.

 

[AlastorKatriona]

1. Keeping the status quo is a good thing. No need to break stuff for people.
2. I'm confident there will be PWAs with third-party browser engines sooner or later. This is exactly what this legislation is about.
3. It's funny that you think that you're more tech savy than EU staff working on this regulation. And even if they have questions about some topic, there are thousands of experts that can be consulted on this topic.

The experts to consult are the people they're trying to regulate. They have no idea what they're doing. None.

 

[AlastorKatriona]

"Apple business concerns" are not mine, nor should they be worried about by anyone other than Apple.

The interests of actual human being citizens need to prioritized way above business concerns of corporations.

Let's not spend time defending a TRILLION dollar company
They don't need any defending. They need reining in

If you're going to put this little effort into actually understanding the situation, you might as well be out on a sidewalk holding a sign.

 

[hans1972]

This ^^

Apple is choosing to make this as frustrating and tedious for themselves as possible

Apple is doing this to themselves, nobody else.

Here is the regulation:

Regulation - 2022/1925 - EN - EUR-Lex

eur-lex.europa.eu

Can you point which parts are relevant to PWAs?

It shouldn't be a problem since the rules are very clear?

 

[hans1972]

Could it be because that simply isn't how anything works? There is no "fine first, ask questions later regulatory scheme". There are clear guidelines that - and I cannot stress this enough - Apple was invited to help write. They know damn well what they can and cannot do, they are just walking the line and hoping they won't get caught, or by the time they do get caught the damage is already done and the money is already in their pockets. Why is it that Microsoft and Google can implement the necessary changes without any fuss, yet Apple cannot? Maybe the problem isn't that the rules aren't clear, it's just that Apple doesn't want to. But that's not the EUs problem.

Here is the regulation:

Regulation - 2022/1925 - EN - EUR-Lex

eur-lex.europa.eu

Can you point which parts are relevant to PWAs? It shouldn't be a problem since the rules are very clear.

 

[hans1972]

Customers have been protesting the loss of PWAs because Apple was just being an ass to their customers. There was absolutely no reason for them to scrap that function. Ask Google and Microsoft; they do still support this on their OSes, and with much tighter integration from 3rd party browsers for that matter. Ooh, you know who else does support this functionality? Apple on macOS.

Has it occurred to you that iOS as the most locked down OS might have bigger problems opening up than OSes which have been pretty open all the time?

When Apple forked iOS from OS X, Apple removed a lot of the open parts of OS X. WebKit as the only browser engine has been part of the security model since before its release. Apple has never had to consider that they would need to change this part of their security model before the DMA.

 

[hans1972]

Customers have been protesting the loss of PWAs because Apple was just being an ass to their customers. There was absolutely no reason for them to scrap that function. Ask Google and Microsoft; they do still support this on their OSes, and with much tighter integration from 3rd party browsers for that matter. Ooh, you know who else does support this functionality? Apple on macOS.

Has it occurred to you that iOS as the most locked down OS might have bigger problems opening up than OSes which have been pretty open all the time?

When Apple forked iOS from OS X, Apple removed a lot of the open parts of OS X. WebKit as the only browser engine has been part of the security model since before its release. Apple has never had to consider that they would need to change this part of their security model before the DMA.

I wonder why Apple doesn't try some of this lockdown on macOS?

I wish they did. Unfortunately, Apple doesn't have the power to force developer to Apple's bidding has they have on iOS.

 

[hans1972]

Why is it that Microsoft and Google can implement the necessary changes without any fuss, yet Apple cannot?

With regards to Windows and Android, Microsoft and Google doesn't have do to anything when it comes to the DMA with regards to PWA. They already support other browsers and other browser engines.

Of course, Apple could have implemented support for PWA in other browser engines but it would have required them to do something. They didn't want to do it to save resources and money when the functionality was used by a tine group of people. Very understandable.

 

[hans1972]

There is no need to go bananas, not on the EU side and not on the gatekeeper side. Work on this law has been going on since at least 2020. I'm certain lobbyists had numerous occasions to give their input and to ask for clarification about it. Apple acting surprised is just a PR stunt.

It doesn't work like that, at least not in the EU.

The Commission doesn't have the right to give a legally binding statement on how the regulation should be interpreted.

Please, point to where any such clarifications have been published and their relevance to PWAs.

 

[hans1972]

Right now I have 32 apps installed on my iPhone that are from developers based in the EU. You probalby haven't heard about most of them.

So everything was working fine even before the DMA?

European developers developed apps and you downloaded them from The App Store.

 

[svish]

Great to hear that Apple is not going to disable it in the EU

 

[AppliedMicro]

But Europe has a great system whereby the government promulgates vague rules, companies try to comply based on their best reading of the rules, then the government fines them if they guessed wrong

People don’t seem to realize that the EU regulation is such that you don’t know you are in violation until the EU tells you that you are

Europe has a great system that acknowledges you can’t regulate big tech and especially software with static rules carved in stone. It (correctly) anticipated that gatekeepers (some - at least Apple) would get maliciously creative about finding cracks and loopholes in regulation. That’s why the regulation provides for measures to counteract and adapt.

 

[makitango]

Frankly you just described the DMA perfectly in one sentence.

Frankly, he didn't or else we wouldn't have this conversation.

The experts to consult are the people they're trying to regulate. They have no idea what they're doing. None.

Are you part of the EU commission is is that just your word we have to carry as a goblet of facts?

If you're going to put this little effort into actually understanding the situation, you might as well be out on a sidewalk holding a sign.

Like as if you can understand as to whether or not they understand. You can claim that you understand that they don't, but it doesn't even prove that either you do understand or say the truth.

Has it occurred to you that iOS as the most locked down OS might have bigger problems opening up than OSes which have been pretty open all the time?

When Apple forked iOS from OS X, Apple removed a lot of the open parts of OS X. WebKit as the only browser engine has been part of the security model since before its release. Apple has never had to consider that they would need to change this part of their security model before the DMA.

iOS is not locked down, the App Store is. And Side-loading is sanctioned by Apple either through a 7-day time window or paying enterprise fees.
By your logic, I can just develop endlessly malicious code and infect every single iOS device on the planet by establishing a communications channel because security does not exist outside the App Store.
Apparently.

Sad only that the App Store is so full of malware so not even that point holds its ground.

So everything was working fine even before the DMA?

Some things have, for them. But if you have to carry a stupid heavy laptop whereas your phone could do a light task just fine but Apple doesn't want it, then this is already a case where the DMA comes into play.

European developers developed apps and you downloaded them from The App Store.

And now they will be able to do it outside. Wonderful news for developers because they can choose.

Only waiting now until the marketplace requirement is dropped.


Apple simply has to eat its own trash right now because they showed everyone how they bend backwards for their primary market which is against all of their business conduct and company philosophy but don't even truly intend to comply with a secondary market from where it sourced all that material.

 

[grek64]

So basically apple thought they couldn’t offer web apps using webkit because of the DMA regulations and it wasn’t worth their time rewriting how it works so scrapped web apps in the eu, uproar follows and it actually turns out using webkit for these is ok? It’s good to know the regulations are clear!

or maybe apple wanted to be "really" smart?

 

[grek64]

This is not over! This is not going to end well! Like the EU really knows what they are doing? Web Apps were obsolete like 10 years ago!

so now eu is responsible for web apps and not apple? lol

 

[SmugMaverick]

I'n actually concerned by the amount of people here who think Apple reversed this stupid idea by choice.

They. have. no. choice.

I know it hurts to hear your favourite corporation it being nasty and greedy, but maybe you need better idols.

They're trying to really be scummy with the EU rules and this is going to keep happening, they have no interest in doing the correct things first but instead they will play games until the LAW tells them to put up or go home.

I've said it before and ill say it again, Apple NEEDS the EU more than we Europeans need apple, we are not held back by iMessage or bubble bullying, we don't care, nor are we that pathetic.