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Abazigal

Contributor
Jul 18, 2011
19,684
22,227
Singapore
I'n actually concerned by the amount of people here who think Apple reversed this stupid idea by choice.

They. have. no. choice.

I know it hurts to hear your favourite corporation it being nasty and greedy, but maybe you need better idols.

They're trying to really be scummy with the EU rules and this is going to keep happening, they have no interest in doing the correct things first but instead they will play games until the LAW tells them to put up or go home.

I've said it before and ill say it again, Apple NEEDS the EU more than we Europeans need apple, we are not held back by iMessage or bubble bullying, we don't care, nor are we that pathetic.

The DMA is not a good piece of legislation and it should not be normalised or justified.
 

jakey rolling

macrumors 6502a
Mar 8, 2022
564
1,253
That isn't any more complicated than "Apple would need to make an API to let third-party browsers create their own home screen web app launchers", which is not trivial.
A properly designed OS that allows any kind of home-screen web app would already have included such an API. The lack of such an API is an intentional omission by Apple with the goal being to keep that market to themselves.

The fact that Apple are against the wall on this now is entirely a problem of their own making. Apple purpose-built their API to benefit themselves, and now instead of having the leisure of acting responsibly on their own schedule, they are going to be forced to do so on an imposed one.
 

jakey rolling

macrumors 6502a
Mar 8, 2022
564
1,253
With regards to Windows and Android, Microsoft and Google doesn't have do to anything when it comes to the DMA with regards to PWA. They already support other browsers and other browser engines.
Because unlike Apple, Google and Microsoft have competent developers on staff who know how to write an OS API.

Of course, Apple could have implemented support for PWA in other browser engines but it would have required them to do something. They didn't want to do it to save resources and money when the functionality was used by a tine group of people. Very understandable.
Among that "tiny group of people" are a heck of a lot of medium-sized maintenance businesses whose technician management and work order management apps are all written as PWAs.
 

ovrlrd

macrumors 65816
Aug 29, 2009
1,384
146
Google and Microsoft have competent developers on staff who know how to write an OS API.

As a developer I disagree with the idea that Android has a good API. It’s quite a nightmare to work on at times and I currently have 3 different Android phones that I have to use for testing.
 
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makitango

macrumors 6502a
Apr 15, 2012
766
1,064
The DMA is not a good piece of legislation and it should not be normalised or justified.
So that's your word sold as a fact, savvy? Other countries are taking a similar approach because they too see it as normalized and justified. The DMA is a natural reaction to industrial players holding dominion over the market, over consumers and market participants alike.

Not good in the eye of Apple's board of directors, agreed.
Bad for the industry, I disagree.
 

bn-7bc

macrumors 6502a
May 30, 2008
613
202
Arendal, Norway
People don't seem to realize that Apple is just acting stupid. Every child with a dictionary can understand what the law says. If an Apple lawyer can't or wants to gamble, it's their loss.
As a shareholder, I am already transitioning out of this impotent company because they just can't deliver on either operational or innovation. They've had a good run but they ruined it by having an ego too big for the door, and by investing too many $$ in forum trolls.


You mean the malware that can reach you already since the start of the iPhone?

Doesn't work if you're their "valued" customer.

If the EU commission raised this, then for sure this wasn't of low concern. This also proves that Apple is either lying or the EU is very much behind the customer (or both), because Apple already said that PWA usage is negligible (obviously it isn't or there wouldn't be enough noise to move the commission) and the commission is pushing to keep Apple supporting a framework that doesn't make corporations earn extra, so there is little chance of lobbyism.

Well go ahead, say something negative. But do you have data to back up your claim that you saying "anything" will result in your bananas? Anything is a lot and I don't think you or anyone else here gets to fill the meaning of that word.

Psst, the apologists are mouth-breathing already!

I wouldn't exactly call it a stunt, and judging from the financials call, shareholders weren't exactly happy with how Apple is performing on any front.
They are literally biting each hand that feeds them at the moment, like a stubborn little child.

Not sure if those defenders are actually non-afiliated with Apple.

Got some data to back up the claim or is it just your word in charge to judge a whole institution?

Also, saying someone random is not better either adds little to the solution. That's like a murderer asking for a lesser sentence because others have murdered, too.

It is in place so that every developer in the EU can develop for free, like for any other platform, and publish apps on their own costs and terms.
It is also for freedom of choice for customers.

Apple has no issue with that as it has proven time and time again.
If its all lis simple why do the leagel proffesions requer years of kaw school befored being allowed to trpresentbemyon in court, if it's all that simple shurly A few mounthe of evening courses shuld be enug, eitere there is a lot of gate keeping going on, ot things are not quite as simple as you thing
 
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seek3r

macrumors 68020
Aug 16, 2010
2,301
3,288
Doesn't seem like anyone knows if only allowing WebKit for web apps is OK under the DMA. But Europe has a great system whereby the government promulgates vague rules, companies try to comply based on their best reading of the rules, then the government fines them if they guessed wrong. So we'll find out in a few months if this is OK. Personally, I fully expect the EU to fine Apple for this anyway.
let me translate what you think to what actually is:
"Europe is better at avoiding regulatory capture and at cracking down on malicious compliance than the US is" - and that seems to be taken as a personal affront by American libertarian nuts
 

seek3r

macrumors 68020
Aug 16, 2010
2,301
3,288
Because unlike Apple, Google and Microsoft have competent developers on staff who know how to write an OS API.


Among that "tiny group of people" are a heck of a lot of medium-sized maintenance businesses whose technician management and work order management apps are all written as PWAs.
I'd quibble that Apple has the competent devs, they're on the same path of malicious compliance that microsoft was 20/25 years ago though. This isnt a dev skill problem, it's a C Suite management problem. Good news is good regulation can force them out of it, we know this, have to hope the EU keeps up the pressure
 

mjs916

macrumors 6502a
Apr 1, 2018
742
887
Sacramento, CA
Doesn't seem like anyone knows if only allowing WebKit for web apps is OK under the DMA. But Europe has a great system whereby the government promulgates vague rules, companies try to comply based on their best reading of the rules, then the government fines them if they guessed wrong. So we'll find out in a few months if this is OK. Personally, I fully expect the EU to fine Apple for this anyway.
Can they fine for a Beta build?

The EU does seem adept at collecting fines off of vague rules. I suppose it could be a great deterrent though. Like a really large traffic ticket.
 
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Haiku_Oezu

macrumors 6502
Oct 31, 2016
498
666
Great, now I can go back to not using them!

No but in all seriousness this is good, even if they don’t hold a candle to native apps PWAs sounds much better than nothing and I’m glad they’re safe
 

jarman92

macrumors 65816
Nov 13, 2014
1,497
4,656
Can they fine for a Beta build?

The EU does seem adept at collecting fines off of vague rules. I suppose it could be a great deterrent though. Like a really large traffic ticket.

Yeah, like a really large speeding ticket on a road without speed limit signs because you “should have known better.” And the Europhiles on here would say you deserved it because you should have driven at 15 mph just to be safe.
 
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Samplasion

macrumors 6502a
Jul 7, 2022
575
938
Yeah, like a really large speeding ticket on a road without speed limit signs because you “should have known better.” And the Europhiles on here would say you deserved it because you should have driven at 15 mph just to be safe.
A better comparison would be like complaining that you got a ticket on a road where, by law, the maximum speed is 50 km/h, and arguing that it wasn't written anywhere.
 
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AlastorKatriona

Suspended
Nov 3, 2023
559
1,024
Frankly, he didn't or else we wouldn't have this conversation.

Are you part of the EU commission is is that just your word we have to carry as a goblet of facts?

Like as if you can understand as to whether or not they understand. You can claim that you understand that they don't, but it doesn't even prove that either you do understand or say the truth.

iOS is not locked down, the App Store is. And Side-loading is sanctioned by Apple either through a 7-day time window or paying enterprise fees.
By your logic, I can just develop endlessly malicious code and infect every single iOS device on the planet by establishing a communications channel because security does not exist outside the App Store.
Apparently.

Sad only that the App Store is so full of malware so not even that point holds its ground.

Some things have, for them. But if you have to carry a stupid heavy laptop whereas your phone could do a light task just fine but Apple doesn't want it, then this is already a case where the DMA comes into play.

And now they will be able to do it outside. Wonderful news for developers because they can choose.

Only waiting now until the marketplace requirement is dropped.


Apple simply has to eat its own trash right now because they showed everyone how they bend backwards for their primary market which is against all of their business conduct and company philosophy but don't even truly intend to comply with a secondary market from where it sourced all that material.
Pretty much all of this is wrong.
 
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jakey rolling

macrumors 6502a
Mar 8, 2022
564
1,253
It was actually up to Apple to interpret the DMA the way they did and hope they got it right.
It was actually up to Apple to consult with EU lawmakers to make sure they got it right. They chose not to, instead taking the "play dumb and pretend we did our best" path.

Apple has a legal team, including lawyers familiar with EU law. Apple has the ability to directly consult with EU lawmakers on any change they were planning to make to iOS. Instead of actually consulting with lawmakers to confirm that the changes they were planning to make would actually comply with the DMA, Apple chose to "interpret" the DMA in as narrow a way as they felt would be most convenient to themselves and feign ignorance when it didn't work out.

The "hope they got it right" is, again, nothing more than Apple hoping that a court sympathetic to corporate lobbyists would interpret the DMA as narrowly as Apple wants them to.
 
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