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In all my posts I have never once claimed that Apple is currently at risk of losing developers.

Only that these sorts of reports DO fall under consideration for future planning.

your need to jump to Apples defence, even when Apple is not being attacked belies your own opinions on the matter, and no amount of logic or truth is going to matter anyways

So have a great day :) I recommend calming down

Your argument was people take these reports to make business decisions (and that they'd invest in the 89% and not the 11%). I provided actual real-world data that destroyed your argument.

I'm not defending Apple, I'm criticizing bogus data. There is a difference, you know.
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don't think so.. xcode is complex and hard to get roi.The only bigger market only on us compare 2 world.

What does Xcode have to do with actual real-world data that shows The App Store (and iOS users) are vastly more profitable than Google Play?
 
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In all my posts I have never once claimed that Apple is currently at risk of losing developers.

Only that these sorts of reports DO fall under consideration for future planning.

your need to jump to Apples defence, even when Apple is not being attacked belies your own opinions on the matter, and no amount of logic or truth is going to matter anyways

So have a great day :) I recommend calming down
So you’re saying somebody, somewhere is gonna use some info from these types of reports for something. Got it.
 
1. I just checked eSIM support on Apple's website. The two EU countries which I currently have physical SIMs for have have zero carriers supporting eSIM, and a third country I visit often only has a single carrier (and it looks like that carrier requires a contract to offer it). The support isn't there.

Given that dual SIM (dual-standby) was your number one feature, you are correct that an eSIM solution will not work for you. Glad you have an option. I looked at a list of dual SIM (dual standby) phones and was a bit surprised that not one of them supports dual SIM and removable media at the same time. Of the eight listed, 4 do not support removable media, the other 4 do, but use the second SIM slot to do so. Which phone do you use that has both?

I travel internationally quite a bit, and in years past I would always pick up a local SIM (I still have a SIM wallet with those SIMs from the countries I visited most often). With the changes in international roaming for T-Mobile and AT&T I no longer bother unless I am in country for more than 4 days (not my typical travel pattern). I look forward to the day when I can always use and eSIM, and/or that international roaming is no longer something about which people have to worry.

2. Does anyone really need anything? No, it's just better. Putting 512 GB storage into my phone cost almost nothing (compared to Apple's insane markup) so why not just do it and then never have to think about storage again.

512GB is enough for you to never worry about storage again? Would not be enough for me to not worry about it. I currently have 741 movies on iTunes (most are also on MoviesAnywhere) - those alone would be more than a terabyte. Not to mention TV shows (from iTunes, NetFlix and Amazon), etc., and I realized that I will never have enough local storage to hold everything I would want. Once I realized that, I stopped carrying external drives with all my content, and just load some films and shows before I leave. I keep enough on my iPad, that even if I forget and end up in a place without good WiFi when I am traveling (more and more rare), I have enough to keep me busy.

I do understand your choice and, other than the question I asked above, I see how that would prevent you from ever buying an iPhone. Apple is never going to support removable storage for the same reasons it wants to get rid of every opening on the device - they take up space and allow water and dirt to enter. I will bet that as soon as they think it is viable, they will move to only supporting eSIMs, to eliminate the SIM slot altogether.

I know what managing with lesser storage is like because I do it all the time with my SSD on my MacBook Pro.

I am curious how much storage you have on your Mac, given that 512GB is enough so you do not need to worry about it, and you consider it “lesser”. On my 2018 Mac Mini, I have a 4TB USB-C connected SSD, and a 40TB 10Gb/e connected NAS (shared with the other machines around the house).

3. I used to live somewhere where the most convenient and cheap travel was a prepaid transport card.

You have mentioned this in another thread (discussing ApplePay and transit support), and I am curious which system it is. Again, I understand that you want every system to write an app for your phone to support NFC, others (me included) would rather that every system just support standard tap to pay (ApplePay, GooglePay, and Samsung Pay) so that there is no need to download apps and maintain balances for many systems.

Once again, you are correct, this is a requirement that is unlikely to be met by iOS anytime soon (or maybe ever).

4. Many YouTube videos don't require full attention. YouTube used to mimimise to a small window in the corner if you left the app while a video was playing. That window is small but was very convenient for videos that were just commentary. Now YouTube wants to charge $12/month for that feature, so I just split screen for free.

Google wants $12 a month for that feature? Wow, that sounds like a rip-off. I generally find my iPhone’s full screen in the same aspect ratio as the video to be at the minimum size I am willing to watch a video, but I can see why others might like it smaller. Of all the features you list, this one might sometime come to iOS on the phone.

Now I have a fingerprint on my wife's phone for when I help her with tech support (easier than constantly handing back and forth), and she has one on mine because just in case she ever needed to use my phone I prefer for her to be able to.

My fiancé and I do the same with FaceID. Works great.

Having different profiles then isn't so much as a privacy issue as a customisation one, e.g. bookmarks, email accounts, social media.

How does this work on Android? Are all the profiles cloud-linked and kept up-to-date in the background so that when I switch it is always the same as on my primary device? Does that mean that your wife’s email is always being downloaded on your device and yours on hers? How do you switch among profiles? Can they be password (fingerprint?) protected? How do I know which profile is active?

If Apple ever adds profile support for iOS on iPad, they might add it on iPhones as well (although I do not think that is likely). I see some compelling uses for it on iPads, but personally, I do not think they matter on the phone. (Your needs are clearly different.)

7. I can't comment on failure of USB-C because I've only been using it for 1.5 years, but lightning definitely screwed me on multiple occasions.

Our experiences are quite different. I have had lightning cables for more than 10 devices over 7 years, and I have never had a problem (I have had cables fail or forgotten them but every hotel in which I have stayed had spares I could borrow, as did every company I was visiting, every airport lounge, and every restaurant). On the other hand, I have had USB-C for much less time and have already had two occasions where a borrowed USB-C cable did not work, and have had a few restaurants where I wanted to charge my device and they did not have a USB-C cable (they had lighting cables as their reservation and table management system was iPad based.

As with all things, YMMV.

Having gone through all your examples, I agree that your requirements make it unlikely that iOS/iPhone/iPad will ever work for you. It is great that you have a choice to pick Android and have your needs met.
 
Remember those oh-so-clever (in their opinion) and oh-so-vociferous trolls when Apple Watch launched?

I hope that their employers are now insisting on refunds of what they were paid. #trollfail

The apple watch only became useful after health and fitness features were added to it. Series 1 didn't have much of that.
 
The apple watch only became useful after health and fitness features were added to it. Series 1 didn't have much of that.

Having had an Apple Watch from Series 0, I will say that it had quite a bit of the fitness functionality at launch. They added much more, but it was a big step up from my Basis Band even when it launched.
 
No, this is what happens when you COPY the leader as Samsung always does.

The iWatch is a failure. Take this insightful quote from a MacRumors user:

“No offense to anyone who bought one, I'm sure they have their use cases but they are just meh to me and I still have no interest in them or the product category in general. I don't see the Watch as the game-changing product like the iPod, iPhone and iPad were.”

Sharp and accurate.
 
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No but the XS is a flop, and the XR is just a budget phone with a premium price tag

Just like the x was labeled a flop for most of last year. That’s just wishful thinking on your part.

3d facial recognition, nvme based storage, and 8 core npus are not features found in premium android phones let alone budget phones.

Premium market segment is still owned by apple regardless of your opinions.

8c2b1873b27202c380ee4b09f7275206.jpg
 
You arguments are really weak taking in consideration you feel the need to write such ridiculously long posts.
What's your strategy? If feels like you are only trying to tire up your interlocutor.

LMAO what's weak is your stating my rebuttal is such due to me going in-depth to shed like on initial vague replies which was non-taken-offence by my interlocutor, the responses seemed to be very adequate and shed light on the dialog. There was no strategy it's simply dialogue ... so many are so intent on arguments here they cannot appreciate good dialogue between too adults. I'd say my rebuttal was quite strong as well as his and both of us took something decent from this. Can't understand why you couldn't - nobody forced you to read my posts.
 
The iWatch is a failure. Take this insightful quote from a MacRumors user:

“No offense to anyone who bought one, I'm sure they have their use cases but they are just meh to me and I still have no interest in them or the product category in general. I don't see the Watch as the game-changing product like the iPod, iPhone and iPad were.”

Sharp and accurate.
Doesn’t seem like Apple views the Apple Watch as a failure, especially with the ekg in the series 4. But everybody has their opinion.
 
You aim for wherever you're going to make money. End of story. your point here doesn't add up, because you're also assuming that 100% of that 11% of users spend money, and 100% of that 89% don't. That's fallacious binary argument.

but you clearly are aso nitpicking my comment to fit your own narrative. I did clearly state that "while rarely taken in vacuum". This means that it is not the only consideration, but A consideration.

But to ignore the reality that declining marketshare poses potential concern for 3rd party vendors is absolutely blind thinking. As your market share declines, especially in a mature market that isn't growing significantly, you have to take real concern and stock of the situation that the pool of potential purchasers is shrinking and that your potential customer audience is not going to be as strong or robust.

We're going to do some simple hypothetical math:
Company A and Company B, both make widgets of various sizes and shapes.

Company A sells 110, Company B sells 890

you're a vendor making adapters for those widgets. You have a budget for R&D of $5,000
Going rate for those adapters is $25. This price point is non-elastic.

Company A users are more willing to buy. They have a sell through rate of 60%. This equates to 66 purchases of adapters at $25, for a total Revenues of $1,650.

Company B users are less willing to buy. They have a sell through rate of only 25%. This equates to 222 purchases of adapters at $25, for a total Revenues of $5,550

In this scenario, the logical business choice will be to focus your attention only on Company B's Widgets.

Ideally, if the 3rd party companies had unlimitted funding, than yes, of course it makes sense to provide your product to 100% of the market as best possible. But unfortunately, We all have to deal with the idea of limited resourcing and having to make opportunity costs.

it's why these sort of reports are valuable. They're not the whole picture and any CEO making decisions exclusively based off this sort of data is crazy, but to ignore it completely and say it's irrelevant is an incorrect opinion that ignores reality as it is.

But that’s precisely what is happening with iOS vs android.

Take this article by the developer of monument valley.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/8twtvr/monument_valley_2_made_60_of_revenue_from_ios_and/

The ios App Store also brought in more revenue than the google play store.

https://9to5mac.com/2018/10/11/app-store-massive-revenue-growth-over-google-play/

Declining market share ignores the fact that 11% is still a very number in an absolute sense. Especially when the number of people in this pool continues to grow.

Growing market share on the android side doesn’t mean that there are more customers willing to spend either. It just means there are more users.

To put it crudely, not every customer is made equal. Apple has the best customers thanks to the iPhone (you have to be, to be able and willing to pay iPhone-level prices), plain and simple.

So it’s not that we are “ignoring reality”, as you claim. It’s that reality itself is painting a very different picture from what the critics are claiming, and we are simply pointing that out. More developers prefer to release apps for the 11% of the market who have no qualms about paying top dollar for quality content, over the 89% who don’t.

Your “common sense” economic theory is wrong.
 
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Your argument was people take these reports to make business decisions (and that they'd invest in the 89% and not the 11%). I provided actual real-world data that destroyed your argument.

I'm not defending Apple, I'm criticizing bogus data. There is a difference, you know.
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What does Xcode have to do with actual real-world data that shows The App Store (and iOS users) are vastly more profitable than Google Play?
The most profitable in app are games.. And I said large market for iOS just in United State not in the world. Xcode is to build apps and the user interface (ux) pretty bad but still not the worst ide. You can use another tool like AppCode from jetbrain but best to use Apple Official Product.

Before i play games on IOS , but paid in Android phone for in app purchase(Cheaper).Reason : Apple Tax.
 
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How many organizations buy data from you? How long have you been in this bussiness? IDC is the best (or one of the best) source of this sort of data there is and according to them iPhone market share last quarter was 11%. There is nothing you can do about it.
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And? 5G Android phones have much higher bandwidth than iPhone. Should we ignore iPhones then when calculating market share?
Xiaomi took the unusual step of reporting its smartphone shipments for the March quarter, which it issued in response to phone shipment data it said was "inaccurate and unfair, and deviates from our actual performance in terms of shipment of smartphones." Apple neither reported iPhone units nor took issue with IDC's data, despite its shipments clearly being undercounted by a margin more than twice as large.

30858-50948-D5gZSPFWsAEX5c5-l.jpg

Xiaomi says IDC's estimates were off by millions of units


Xiaomi didn't specifically name IDC as the "certain market research institutions" it felt compelled to challenge, but its characterization suggests that's who the phone maker was aiming its correction at, with the stated intent to "protect investors from any misleading information."

Xiaomi's statement said its shipments "exceeded 27.5 million" smartphones in Q1, compared to 25 million estimated by IDC. The difference between the two numbers is 2.5 million phones. It also changes IDC's math, which stated that Xiaomi's sales had dropped by 10.2% over the year ago quarter, rather than remaining effectively flat.

Canalys also issued a statement noting that its own estimates for Xiaomi were very close to the figure the phone maker gave: 27.8 million units. Canalys stated that it "wants to make it absolutely clear that it was not the company responsible for the inaccurate data and that its reputation remains unblemished."

IDC's iPhone estimate was far less accurate, Apple didn't care


AppleInsider earlier reported that analyst Neil Cybart of Above Avalon had also called IDC's parallel estimate of Apple's iPhone sales 'highly inaccurate' to the point of 'embarrassing.'

IDC reported just 36.4 million iPhone sales in the quarter, compared to Cybart's model of 43 million, and Canalys' estimate of 40.2 million. Apple stopped reporting its official unit shipments, but IDC's figures were statistically "impossible" given Apple's official statement of iPhone revenues. They also differed from Cybart's data by an incredible 6.6 million iPhones—or about $4.8 billion worth of devices—nearly as much as Apple Park supposedly cost to build.

27119-39893-applepark-l.jpg

IDC's estimate of quarterly iPhone shipments were off by nearly $5 billion, or most of an Apple Park


Where the rules are made up and the points don't matter


IDC's iPhone estimate differed from others' by a margin of as much as 2.6 times times larger than the figure Xiaomi felt compelled to challenge in public, but Apple did not respond to IDC's estimates to "protect investors from any misleading information."

Apple does not appear to have ever corrected IDC's figures, even when they have been clearly wrong. Apple has, however, frequently cited IDC's numbers as being authoritative in its public events and in earnings calls.

Correcting IDC's figures wouldn't change the ranking order of smartphone makers by unit volume, as Samsung and Huawei shipped far more, albeit much lower-end phones, than third place Apple, and Xiaomi would still remain in fourth place—as long as Vivo and Oppo are counted as separate brands; the two are actually owned by the same company. It's not clear why market research groups treat them as competitors.

However, adjusting the two numbers that are known to be off by millions of units does make Apple's percentage of change in shipments over the year-ago quarter far less dramatic, and virtually erases Xiaomi's drop. That raises some serious questions about everything we think we know about the smartphone market. Are global sales even contracting at all? Are things worse that we're told?

The actual economic data that would explain what's truly happening in the industry is missing from IDC's public estimates entirely. In terms of revenues and profits, Apple is not even in the same category as Android licensees.

Apple makes virtually all of the profits earned in smartphones, and its iPhone revenues alone are consistently higher than even "first place" Samsung's entire Mobile IM unit, which sells not just smartphones but all of the company's PCs, tablets, Chromebooks, and Gear watches.

Apple reported $31 billion in iPhone revenues alone in the last quarter, total revenues of $58 billion, and $11.6 billion in profits comparable to Samsung's equivalent Mobil IM consumer electronics segment, which reported revenues of $22.26 billion and profits of $1.95 billion (when also adding in its networking equipment business). The entire Samsung Electronics, including its display and semiconductor business, TVs and other home appliances, reported total revenues of $45 billion and profits of $5.35 billion.

By focusing only on unit sales, IDC can suggest that Apple is trailing various Android licensees in the phone business, a tactic is has also pursued in tablets, in PCs, and in watches.

Here, read this a learn something, I’m done with you........
 
The only annoying thing for me about the AW is battery life compared to its competitors. Why are Fitbits lasting a lot longer than AW?
 
Not surprised at the huge numbers for apple in the smart watch arena. No other smart watch compares. Apple made the apple watch the best in category....by far.
 
The only annoying thing for me about the AW is battery life compared to its competitors. Why are Fitbits lasting a lot longer than AW?

I think because many people are looking for the Apple Watch to (eventually?) replace their iPhone. So Apple is adding a lot of features for that crowd.

If Apple focused only on a fitness watch, it’d probably have comparable battery life
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But that’s precisely what is happening with iOS vs android.

Take this article by the developer of monument valley.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/8twtvr/monument_valley_2_made_60_of_revenue_from_ios_and/

The ios App Store also brought in more revenue than the google play store.

https://9to5mac.com/2018/10/11/app-store-massive-revenue-growth-over-google-play/

Declining market share ignores the fact that 11% is still a very number in an absolute sense. Especially when the number of people in this pool continues to grow.

Growing market share on the android side doesn’t mean that there are more customers willing to spend either. It just means there are more users.

To put it crudely, not every customer is made equal. Apple has the best customers thanks to the iPhone (you have to be, to be able and willing to pay iPhone-level prices), plain and simple.

So it’s not that we are “ignoring reality”, as you claim. It’s that reality itself is painting a very different picture from what the critics are claiming, and we are simply pointing that out. More developers prefer to release apps for the 11% of the market who have no qualms about paying top dollar for quality content, over the 89% who don’t.

Your “common sense” economic theory is wrong.

I don’t think it’s painting a very different picture

You’re selectively using your data points. What I will say is my company works on something that has much more daily active users than that Monumental developer. Android DAUs are not something to be disregarded. What is important is reach for us, and providing both including Android is very important globally.

If I had to choose between the two as a binary, you would want reach for growth over pure sales.

If we were to focus solely on Apple, we will pigeonhole our growth and run into the same potential issues they have now with their services narrative. In my opinion, that’s a fundamental mistake, and why you are wrong.
 
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pike908 said:
Geez...33% of not much is still not much...Yes, Apple is the dominant player in this market, however, like tablets the jury is still as to when the masses will buy them.

I was wondering the same thing. Apple has only sold over 400 MILLION iPads, and the Apple Watch is the best selling watch, smart or not, in the ENTIRE world, selling tens of millions of them. I wonder if they will ever become popular???
 
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Love my AW3. Will probably purchase a new one once S6 comes out.. Can’t live without this thing. Knowing I can call 911 from my wrist is comforting to me, as the world we live in now is scarier and scarier. Even got one for my fiancé who works in a school, which unfortunately are always targets.
 
You’re selectively using your data points. What I will say is my company works on something that has much more daily active users than that Monumental developer. Android DAUs are not something to be disregarded. What is important is reach for us, and providing both including Android is very important globally.

If I had to choose between the two as a binary, you would want reach for growth over pure sales.

If we were to focus solely on Apple, we will pigeonhole our growth and run into the same potential issues they have now with their services narrative. In my opinion, that’s a fundamental mistake, and why you are wrong.

I don't think anyone said that they should ignore Android as a platform to develop for. Just that these "reports" provide no useful information to companies to base their decisions on nor does it correlate in any way with how each platform is actually performing.

I'm curious. What type of App does your company develop (without telling us the actual name)? Is it a free App or pay? I'm sure you also know how many users you have and which platform they're on (you may even know numbers of users by actual device make/model). Can you tell us the makeup of your user base without giving away anything confidential?
 
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I don't think anyone said that they should ignore Android as a platform to develop for. Just that these "reports" provide no useful information to companies to base their decisions on nor does it correlate in any way with how each platform is actually performing.

I'm curious. What type of App does your company develop (without telling us the actual name)? Is it a free App or pay? I'm sure you also know how many users you have and which platform they're on (you may even know numbers of users by actual device make/model). Can you tell us the makeup of your user base without giving away anything confidential?

They are subscription apps, and they reflect the same stories how Android devices and Apple say it is from their point of views

My reply was more to Abizagal for concluding Apple customers should be the best and only target for customer acquisition for 3rd parties

What I have been preaching is that you must be cognizant of the different “truths” companies say. The reports are just an angle of data to use to correlate. Some people say “company A can’t lie because it’s a crime”. Well they aren’t lying if it’s the truth from their angle, right?
 
..What I have been preaching is that you must be cognizant of the different “truths” companies say. The reports are just an angle of data to use to correlate. Some people say “company A can’t lie because it’s a crime”. Well they aren’t lying if it’s the truth from their angle, right?
That's painted with a fairly large brush stroke. Companies can't lie about their financials, but they can give opinions on certain things, such as forward looking statements about their financials. These forward looking statements may even include outside opinions. But you can't say an opinion is a lie. Apple is not Enron.

And when one wants to go into a business spending millions of dollars, some reports estimates like IDC, are just another data point. Complete market research is a necessity if one wants to succeed.
 
They are subscription apps, and they reflect the same stories how Android devices and Apple say it is from their point of views

My reply was more to Abizagal for concluding Apple customers should be the best and only target for customer acquisition for 3rd parties

What I have been preaching is that you must be cognizant of the different “truths” companies say. The reports are just an angle of data to use to correlate. Some people say “company A can’t lie because it’s a crime”. Well they aren’t lying if it’s the truth from their angle, right?

I don't recall @Abazigal saying Apple should be the only target. He is right in saying iOS customers are more valuable. That doesn't mean the opposite is true - that Android customers have zero value. But the fact remains that iOS users generate far more revenue overall than their Android counterparts. A person looking at market share and seeing 89% Android vs 11% iOS would be stupid to think that means the revenue split is also the same for both.
 
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Companies can't lie about their financials, but they can give opinions on certain things, such as forward looking statements about their financials. These forward looking statements may even include outside opinions. But you can't say an opinion is a lie. Apple is not Enron.

It depends what you interpret as a lie. In the financial world, there are many grey areas just like real life.
 
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It depends what you interpret as a lie. In the financial world, there are many grey areas just like real life.
Doesn’t matter what you or I think. The SEC hasn’t gone after Apple, so the grey areas are probably ok. Apple is way to smart to be caught for a lie in a grey area.
 
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