Apple Watch Leather Bands May Be Discontinued for Series 9

[coredev]

The UK could disappear tomorrow and from a climate standpoint, nothing would improve. The entirety of England, Scotland, and Ireland could sink into the ocean and it would not affect Climate Change in any way.

85% of CO2 emissions are in BRICS countries.

Don't be so sure of that. The issue with nothing ... you are saying UK has _no_ emissions at all? Very doubtful.

Also with the UK disappearing, all imports the UK does from BRICS would disappear. And with that probably at least some reasons for these emissions that are currently attributed to BRICS.

Very easy example to make this clearer:
If leather was only produced in China, all the chemicals used for tanning and the associated environmental impact would be attributed to China alone. So you could say that eg UK has no impact on waste stemming from tanning chemicals.
However, if the UK is importing 5% of the leather, in fact the UK is _responsible_ for 5% of the environmental impact, and with the UK disappearing tomorrow, like you say, it would indeed have a considerable impact on chemical waste from leather tanning, although the UK does not use these chemicals at all.

 

[nathansz]

The UK could disappear tomorrow and from a climate standpoint, nothing would improve. The entirety of England, Scotland, and Ireland could sink into the ocean and it would not affect Climate Change in any way.

85% of CO2 emissions are in BRICS countries.

That’s because those countries are where the majority of global manufacturing takes place

Now who do you think is buying all of those goods?

 

[robbietop]

That’s because those countries are where the majority of global manufacturing takes place

Now who do you think is buying all of those goods?

The United States and EU. I don't see your argument. China is still where all the manufacturing is, and is not being held accountable. So, cutting back in the US and EU does nothing if BRICS countries don't cooperate.

 

[robbietop]

Don't be so sure of that. The issue with nothing ... you are saying UK has _no_ emissions at all? Very doubtful.

Also with the UK disappearing, all imports the UK does from BRICS would disappear. And with that probably at least some reasons for these emissions that are currently attributed to BRICS.

Very easy example to make this clearer:
If leather was only produced in China, all the chemicals used for tanning and the associated environmental impact would be attributed to China alone. So you could say that eg UK has no impact on waste stemming from tanning chemicals.
However, if the UK is importing 5% of the leather, in fact the UK is _responsible_ for 5% of the environmental impact, and with the UK disappearing tomorrow, like you say, it would indeed have a considerable impact on chemical waste from leather tanning, although the UK does not use these chemicals at all.

List of countries by carbon dioxide emissions - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The UK only has 67 million. EU has 448 million. USA has 340 million.

China and India both have half the human population. Although, that number is about to severely decline due to smaller succeeding generational sizes that will reduce the populations there by half in the next 40 years.

 

[nathansz]

The United States and EU. I don't see your argument. China is still where all the manufacturing is, and is not being held accountable. So, cutting back in the US and EU does nothing if BRICS countries don't cooperate.

I don’t know how you could possibly not see it.

Why does the accountability rest solely upon where the manufacturing takes place as opposed to where the consumption takes place and/or where the profit accumulates?

It’s a global economy

If the us/eu/uk weren’t importing all of those goods then the associated emissions disappear

 

[minik]

oh sorry, there isn’t room for a nuanced reaction here. this is one of those topics where you have to get really mad and defensive. 😤

but in all seriousness, this comment is such a reasonable response to this story. i wish more people had this kind of reaction, but people get sooooo defensive when it comes to animal products.

Just wanted to leave a different point of view here. They can stay mad all day long. I meant sales of these leather watch bands (from US$99 to US$849) may be low already and most importantly they're sitting on the shelves or warehouses. If make to order, that's a different case.

 

[TheYayAreaLiving 🎗️]

Wow! This is sad!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1701015065116459040

 

[robbietop]

I don’t know how you could possibly not see it.

Why does the accountability rest solely upon where the manufacturing takes place as opposed to where the consumption takes place and/or where the profit accumulates?

It’s a global economy

If the us/eu/uk weren’t importing all of those goods then the associated emissions disappear

If the US were to cut back by half somehow some way, it would still be the largest carbon consumer, but not by much next to China.

And if you somehow know of a way to coerce the Chinese into the Tokyo Protocol or other international agreements, then please let the Department of State and President know how you did that, because diplomacy and chit chat the last 40 years has progressed the Chinese cause of decreasing or slowing carbon emissions 0%.

The Chinese seem to only respond to blatant military threats these days, as they think their economic hegemony is somehow bullet proof.

 

[nathansz]

If the US were to cut back by half somehow some way, it would still be the largest carbon consumer, but not by much next to China.

And if you somehow know of a way to coerce the Chinese into the Tokyo Protocol or other international agreements, then please let the Department of State and President know how you did that, because diplomacy and chit chat the last 40 years has progressed the Chinese cause of decreasing or slowing carbon emissions 0%.

The Chinese seem to only respond to blatant military threats these days, as they think their economic hegemony is somehow bullet proof.

You seem to have completely missed the point

 

[robbietop]

You seem to have completely missed the point

You too.

Why does Apple have to stop selling leather when it does not in any meaningful way help the environment?

A sizable percentage are just gonna turn to third party, which in turn doesn't help the environment either. It just moves off the responsibility from Apple to somebody else that isn't a giant target for activists.

Are the environmentalists gonna now hunt down and destroy 14,000 tiny leather case makers all over the world now that they can't hurl poo at Apple anymore?

 

[Brien]

Boo.

(I like leather and beef. Sorry.)

 

[coredev]

Boo.

(I like leather and beef. Sorry.)

You have to understand that no one is taking that away from you.
Just as you are free to like leather and beef, others are free to find it
... unnecessary these days and let go of it.
Even Apple has the right to make that choice.

 

[coredev]

Why does Apple have to stop selling leather when it does not in any meaningful way help the environment?

A sizable percentage are just gonna turn to third party, which in turn doesn't help the environment either. It just moves off the responsibility from Apple to somebody else that isn't a giant target for activists.

Are the environmentalists gonna now hunt down and destroy 14,000 tiny leather case makers all over the world now that they can't hurl poo at Apple anymore?

Apple does not have to stop selling leather. They chose to do it because they came to the conclusion that it makes sense for them.
Just because you seem to be personally offended by Apple's decision does not mean some "environmentalists" are "hunting down" anyone or hurl poo.

 

[bruinsrme]

This drives me crazy - I’m a leather technician and if people understood leather is made from taking a byproduct (waste, if you like) of the meat industry, and reusing it as a sustainable, long lasting material. What do we think happens if we don’t use these hides for leather - they go to landfill 🤷‍♂️ I’m all for apple creating different bands/using different materials, but don’t tell me something synthetic, bound by acrylics, is going to be more sustainable and better for the environment. The move by apple for sure is to appear ‘greener’ to certain consumers, but in reality will come down to cost savings.

I see people commenting that they are all for saving animals - but animals typically used for leather (Bovine) are never killed for the hides - they are killed for the meat.

These animals will be slaughtered if apple makes leather bands or not.

Lol, please people here crave the later tech products in hat contaminate millions of water an hour and created millions of tons of contaminated chemical waste.
But if we save cows and eliminate plastic straws we’ll be ok.

 

[coredev]

Lol, please people here crave the later tech products in hat contaminate millions of water an hour and created millions of tons of contaminated chemical waste.
But if we save cows and eliminate plastic straws we’ll be ok.

Again a forum contributor who does not understand the concept of "AND".

The goal is not to focus on one aspect of human wrong doing and then say -
we cannot fix this immediately, so we do nothing at all.
We can do a lot of small things at the same time, like have less cows, eliminate one-way plastic (like straws), not use leather for watch bands (which btw also causes chemical waste), save energy, use recycled materials, etc.

Unless you deny the environmental crisis and the need for change entirely, in which case ... well, duh.

 

[bruinsrme]

Again a forum contributor who does not understand the concept of "AND".

The goal is not to focus on one aspect of human wrong doing and then say -
we cannot fix this immediately, so we do nothing at all.
We can do a lot of small things at the same time, like have less cows, eliminate one-way plastic (like straws), not use leather for watch bands (which btw also causes chemical waste), save energy, use recycled materials, etc.

Unless you deny the environmental crisis and the need for change entirely, in which case ... well, duh.

Keep thinking like that and we'll get there, LMAO. I am sure Tim is concerned about the terminating the use of leather to save the planet and moving to a a petroleum derived fabric and surely tripling profits from each sale of the FineWoven material bands.

 

[klrobinson999]

Yeah. 1. Animal killled. 2. Cow killed at 18 months when would normally live for 15 years. Respect is nowhere to be seen.

But the animal was going to be killed ANYWAY. It was not going to live for 15 years. It';s being used as a meat source. Being sanctimonious will get you nowhere in reality.

 

[AppleUser2]

But the animal was going to be killed ANYWAY. It was not going to live for 15 years. It';s being used as a meat source. Being sanctimonious will get you nowhere in reality.

Utter rubbish. The arrogance of humanity - it’s almost as if animals weren’t around before us. They were and they and the planet did a whole lot better…

 

[throAU]

Utter rubbish. The arrogance of humanity - it’s almost as if animals weren’t around before us. They were and they and the planet did a whole lot better…

Cows were not around before us, they are domesticated animals (like say, dogs - that never existed in the wild) that are now pretty much dependent on us for survival.

Get rid of the industry around them and they will no longer exist.

 

[throAU]

If you believe this you should be happy that Apple is using more and more synthetic materials for their cases and watch bands.

But seriously, these studies exist, but have long been debunked by many other studies, see (1).
They come up frequently to justify our industrialized slaughter of animals, but they are wrong anyway.

Plants don't have a nervous system or pain receptors and no brain similar to that of an animal.
It is proven that animals (especially those used for food and leather) feel pain pretty much the same way we humans do, but the same cannot be said for plants.
If you think plants feel pain, then every trimming of the lawn is a massacre.

(1) https://www.britannica.com/story/do-plants-feel-pain
(*) https://sentientmedia.org/do-plants-feel-pain

Plants do have chemical reactions to attack and in a forest there's basically an entire underground network that distributes these chemicals amongst the root system.

‎The Infinite Monkey Cage: The Wood Wide Web on Apple Podcasts

‎Show The Infinite Monkey Cage, Ep The Wood Wide Web - 6 Aug 2022

podcasts.apple.com

 

[coredev]

Plants do have chemical reactions to attack and in a forest there's basically an entire underground network that distributes these chemicals amongst the root system.

‎The Infinite Monkey Cage: The Wood Wide Web on Apple Podcasts

‎Show The Infinite Monkey Cage, Ep The Wood Wide Web - 6 Aug 2022

podcasts.apple.com

As I wrote in the post you replied to:

Plants don't have a nervous system or pain receptors and no brain similar in any way to that of an animal.

Chemical reactions are not the same as a brain and pain receptors.

But even if plants were able to experience pain in the same way humans and animals do, would that make enslaving, torturing and killing animals any better?

 

[throAU]

The brain is literally driven by chemical reactions (just like a plant) so I'd say that the "plants don't have nervous system like we do so they don't feel pain" is total bunk.


And yes, killing animals for food is something we have evolved very specifically to do, and to be very efficient at. We're just different from lions and tigers because we CAN eat some plant based food when we can't get the meat we really evolved to consume. We didn't evolve all this high energy expenditure intelligence, binocular vision, etc. to hunt plants - that simply isn't required. They don't run away. Wasting all this energy on those features for eating plants is extremely inefficient.

You're an apex predator, with forward facing eyes, tool use, hairless skin (for hunting endurance), high intelligence and incisors. You may or may not like this, but it doesn't change what evolution has given you.

 

[ProfessionalFan]

But even if plants were able to experience pain in the same way humans and animals do, would that make enslaving, torturing and killing animals any better?

No but it'd make it hypocritical of those who demean meat eaters while eating plants.

 

[AppleUser2]

Cows were not around before us, they are domesticated animals (like say, dogs - that never existed in the wild) that are now pretty much dependent on us for survival.

Get rid of the industry around them and they will no longer exist.

I’ll own it when I’m wrong - I’ve done the research and you are right about how long they have been about. I still don’t want to see them killed for skin to protect gadgets though.

 

[coredev]

No but it'd make it hypocritical of those who demean meat eaters while eating plants.

Perhaps it would, but it isn't.